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Fox DPX2 vs RockShox Super Deluxe

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Fox DPX2 vs RockShox Super Deluxe
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flag lurkeris
Posted: Apr 8, 2019 at 1:42 Quote
Hello guys,
does anyone really have an solid opinion wheter to go with Fox DPX2 Elite or RockShox Super Deluxe RCT?
They are both 2019 models and have about 30 hours on clock.
They also share the same amount of adjustments.

Which one would you guys go for? My priorities are 60% performance / 40% reliability.

Thank you!

photo
flag tkrumroy
Posted: Nov 16, 2019 at 21:13 Quote
You ever end up getting any feedback here? I just got the Hightower v2 and it comes with the super deluxe select+ shock. I’ve been riding fox for a while and am wondering if the dpx2 would be a noticeable upgrade. My old HTLT has an x2 on it that I loved but I unfortunately couldn’t fit that on the new Hightower frame
flag the-lost-co
Posted: Nov 19, 2019 at 17:02 Quote
tkrumroy wrote:
You ever end up getting any feedback here? I just got the Hightower v2 and it comes with the super deluxe select+ shock. I’ve been riding fox for a while and am wondering if the dpx2 would be a noticeable upgrade. My old HTLT has an x2 on it that I loved but I unfortunately couldn’t fit that on the new Hightower frame

We test a bunch of suspension setups for videos, and riding the Super Deluxe Ultimate back to back with the Factory DPX2 I can assure you the DPX2 is noticeably better.

I had to stop mid-trail to check if I had a flat tire since it was so much more soft & plush haha. We just got new demo bikes with Super Deluxe Ultimates and have some MegNeg's to try out to see if that improved the feel and makes it more comparable to a DPX2. Not sure if it's the damper itself or something with the air can making the big difference.

If you'd like to jump back on a DPX2, feel free to grab one from us with free shipping @ https://thelostco.com/products/2020-fox-float-dpx2?_pos=1&_sid=39d5ba739&_ss=r


Hope that helps!


-Mike
flag iliveonnitro
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 at 15:51 Quote
[Quote="the-lost-co"]
tkrumroy wrote:
I had to stop mid-trail to check if I had a flat tire since it was so much more soft & plush haha. We just got new demo bikes with Super Deluxe Ultimates and have some MegNeg's to try out to see if that improved the feel and makes it more comparable to a DPX2. Not sure if it's the damper itself or something with the air can making the big difference.


Mike - how did the MegNeg work out for your tests? I'm debating on either buying a new shock for my Trek Slash or installing the megneg onto the RockShox Deluxe RT3.
flag the-lost-co
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 at 17:47 Quote
[Quote="iliveonnitro"]
the-lost-co wrote:
tkrumroy wrote:
I had to stop mid-trail to check if I had a flat tire since it was so much more soft & plush haha. We just got new demo bikes with Super Deluxe Ultimates and have some MegNeg's to try out to see if that improved the feel and makes it more comparable to a DPX2. Not sure if it's the damper itself or something with the air can making the big difference.


Mike - how did the MegNeg work out for your tests? I'm debating on either buying a new shock for my Trek Slash or installing the megneg onto the RockShox Deluxe RT3.

The MegNeg most noticeably increases mid-stroke support as the shock rides higher in it's travel. I only rode it for a couple rides so far, but our head wrench Russ has spent awhile on his. He can't recommend it more and is stoked on small bump sensitivity and support. He's straight up not wiling to go back to the shock without the MegNeg. I'd highly recommend it!

We've got them in stock and ready to ship if you'd like to try one: https://thelostco.com/products/rockshox-megneg-air-can-upgrade-kit-for-deluxe-and-super-deluxe-rear-shocks?_pos=1&_sid=90bc4891e&_ss=r
flag iliveonnitro
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 at 22:20 Quote
[Quote="the-lost-co"]
iliveonnitro wrote:
the-lost-co wrote:


Mike - how did the MegNeg work out for your tests? I'm debating on either buying a new shock for my Trek Slash or installing the megneg onto the RockShox Deluxe RT3.

The MegNeg most noticeably increases mid-stroke support as the shock rides higher in it's travel. I only rode it for a couple rides so far, but our head wrench Russ has spent awhile on his. He can't recommend it more and is stoked on small bump sensitivity and support. He's straight up not wiling to go back to the shock without the MegNeg. I'd highly recommend it!

We've got them in stock and ready to ship if you'd like to try one: https://thelostco.com/products/rockshox-megneg-air-can-upgrade-kit-for-deluxe-and-super-deluxe-rear-shocks?_pos=1&_sid=90bc4891e&_ss=r

But will it only delay me from buying a Float X2 or DHX2, or is it actually a solution?
flag lurkeris
Posted: Apr 7, 2020 at 4:18 Quote
tkrumroy wrote:
You ever end up getting any feedback here? I just got the Hightower v2 and it comes with the super deluxe select+ shock. I’ve been riding fox for a while and am wondering if the dpx2 would be a noticeable upgrade. My old HTLT has an x2 on it that I loved but I unfortunately couldn’t fit that on the new Hightower frame
yea, the Super Deluxe is crap compared to the DPX2. I've been riding the DPX2 ever since.
flag tkrumroy
Posted: Apr 7, 2020 at 12:06 Quote
embi wrote:
tkrumroy wrote:
You ever end up getting any feedback here? I just got the Hightower v2 and it comes with the super deluxe select+ shock. I’ve been riding fox for a while and am wondering if the dpx2 would be a noticeable upgrade. My old HTLT has an x2 on it that I loved but I unfortunately couldn’t fit that on the new Hightower frame
yea, the Super Deluxe is crap compared to the DPX2. I've been riding the DPX2 ever since.


I ended up putting the DPX2 on there myself and love it. So much better over the small bumps but almost wondering if the SD is better over the really big chunk. I may have not gotten it dialed in exactly right just yet but it's far better for the majority of my trails at the moment.
flag onyxss
Posted: Apr 10, 2020 at 3:31 Quote
tkrumroy wrote:
embi wrote:
tkrumroy wrote:
You ever end up getting any feedback here? I just got the Hightower v2 and it comes with the super deluxe select+ shock. I’ve been riding fox for a while and am wondering if the dpx2 would be a noticeable upgrade. My old HTLT has an x2 on it that I loved but I unfortunately couldn’t fit that on the new Hightower frame
yea, the Super Deluxe is crap compared to the DPX2. I've been riding the DPX2 ever since.


I ended up putting the DPX2 on there myself and love it. So much better over the small bumps but almost wondering if the SD is better over the really big chunk. I may have not gotten it dialed in exactly right just yet but it's far better for the majority of my trails at the moment.

Nah, probably just dialing and settings. Both DPX Factory and Super deluxe Ultimate are top of the line for trail riding and you can see tons of pros riding anyone of those, depending on who is sponsoring them.
Crappy setuped Factory 36 with all those dials can be way worse than entry level Suntour... Big Grin
flag the-lost-co
Posted: Apr 10, 2020 at 8:07 Quote
[Quote="iliveonnitro"]
the-lost-co wrote:
iliveonnitro wrote:


The MegNeg most noticeably increases mid-stroke support as the shock rides higher in it's travel. I only rode it for a couple rides so far, but our head wrench Russ has spent awhile on his. He can't recommend it more and is stoked on small bump sensitivity and support. He's straight up not wiling to go back to the shock without the MegNeg. I'd highly recommend it!

We've got them in stock and ready to ship if you'd like to try one: https://thelostco.com/products/rockshox-megneg-air-can-upgrade-kit-for-deluxe-and-super-deluxe-rear-shocks?_pos=1&_sid=90bc4891e&_ss=r

But will it only delay me from buying a Float X2 or DHX2, or is it actually a solution?


Shoot, sorry for not getting back to you! We don't get on the forums often. You can always give us a ring at the shop and we'll give you much more in-depth information to any answers you ever have. Our number is (360) 306-8827 and we're open Monday-Friday 10-6 PST.
flag XDeltaFactor
Posted: Apr 12, 2020 at 1:53 Quote
I want to point out that the word "better" is subjective unless we're addressing something specific.

DPX2 and Super Deluxe are different and it doesn't take special equipment to notice the differences when testing back to back.

We tested the DPX2, X2 and Super Deluxe (with and without MegNeg) and our results differ from the-lost-co's comments.

Key points:

- different bikes with differing progressivity and leverage ratios will make things easier or harder to notice big differences between all shocks. So if a bike has a mild-linear curve, it will show different behavior than another bike with much more progressivity

- terrain and riding style matters

Our equipment:

Trek Remedy 9.8 2019 model
Rider 1 - 245 pounds, 5'11
Rider 2 - 155 pounds, 5'10
Rider 3 - 130 pounds, 5'9
Shockwiz (to simulate what a consumer might invest into)
STENDEC Data Acquisition system (pro-level software and data logging sensors and accelerometers)

Assuming completely stock shocks (no tokens)

- DPX2 curve is much more erratic appearing, it goes from supple then almost quickly transitioning to a firmer midstroke sooner (requiring more force in nm to move a given length) and a sharp ramp up near the end stroke

- X2 curve is much more supple (when tuned properly), has a smoother and broader mid stroke that is more consistent regarding oil damping than the DPX2

- Super Deluxe (no MegNeg) curve is more supple than either the DPX2 and X2 (after tuning), but requires less force at the mid stroke, then it ramps up more gradually near the end stroke.

DPX2 Pro's - easier to setup than X2, the sharper ramp up seems to favor a heavier rider or a rider that prefers to use more of their legs while the bike is in motion

DPX2 Con's - is the least supple over sharp repeated chatter than X2 and SD, has a harsh "wall" when approaching the mid stroke which comes on sooner (adding to the less supple feeling) then it ramps up sharply. The last portion may not
work too well with lighter weight riders without sacrificing air pressure and adding excessive tokens (bad idea). The adjustment range to make this shock work best are in-between clicks.

X2 Pro's - when tuned properly (it's best to use a Shockwiz to get a baseline tune, not your final tune) it behaves much more smoothly than the DPX2. It's more supple off the initial stroke, the initial stroke range is broader than the DPX2, it transitions to the mid stroke smoothly while maintaining good support and has a moderate ramp up near the end stroke. Overall, it's a better behaving shock than the DPX2.

X2 Con's - weight weenies may complain about the extra grams which shouldn't be a factor since it's designed to shine going downhill rather than being an uphill climbing XC trail shock. Tuning it solely on feel often leads to a very poor end result (on both Shockwiz and STENDEC). Even at the best tune (on STENDEC), if the rider's performance isn't consistent, it's very easy to get strange results (the X2 is less forgiving than the next shock below). One click too much (or not enough) will negatively affect the other 3 adjustments.

Super Deluxe (no MegNeg) Pro's - most supple and consistent in the initial stroke than the other shocks. Force curve is very consistent throughout the stroke. Easiest to tune even without special equipment. Oil temperatures are lower than either the DPX2 and X2. User serviceable.

Super Deluxe (no MegNeg) Con's - mid stroke force curve is lower than the DPX2 by a sizeable amount, a tad less than X2. This means the mid stroke can often feel like you're going to go through it and end up hitting the end stroke sooner than the other shocks.

Now, the MegNeg Super Deluxe Pro's:

- initial stroke suppleness is very close to a coil shock, not possible with either the DPX2 or X2.

- mid stroke support is vastly improved and approaches a coil shock's excellent mid stroke feel, easily on par with the X2, but with a smoother transition between initial, mid and end stroke zones, it's also less harsh than the X2 in the mid stroke zone.

- end stroke is improved due to the higher air pressure requirement (often needing less or no tokens)

MegNeg Con's:

- a lighter rider around 130 pounds or so may not be able to use the end stroke zone much
- a heavier rider needing more than 325 psi in the shock to achieve 25-30% sag cannot use the MegNeg
- grease covering the holes between the positive/negative chambers can affect performance

Overall all 3 riders are Fox fanboys, all of them ran either the X2 or DPX2 and were sold on the Super Deluxe MegNeg (except the lightest rider who actually prefered the non-MegNeg SD over his X2).

As for reliability, it all depends on whether you follow each manufacturer's service intervals and instructions. Rockshox has the edge here since their shocks are user serviceable without any proprietary tools, so the potential to keep a Rockshox shock in good shape is often better than most Fox riders who tend to not send in their units for regular servicing until something very noticeable happens (like not being able to hold in air due to leaks, etc.)

On my personal bike, an older 2018 Remedy 9.8 (full floater), the SD MegNeg is much more consistent, smoother, supportive and supple than the DPX2, period. The X2, while a decent alternative, I could get very close to the MegNeg SD but not quite. It's the difference between having a 90% tune vs 100%.

Note: I was a previous Fox guy myself, pre-Debonair/MegNeg, I'd easily give the checkered flag to both Fox shocks. Ever since SRAM realized the importance/benefit of having a larger negative chamber, that opinion started to change. The MegNeg on the Super Deluxe moves ahead of the pack, at least for now.

An Australian Youtuber MTB Telly has found similar results on both his Remedy (which I believe he no longer has) and his new Transition Patrol.
flag tkrumroy
Posted: Apr 12, 2020 at 6:20 Quote
See that’s wild to me becusse I have the complete opposite opinion and experience.

Both my x2 and the dpx2 have been far more supple and supportive and overall better for me at 175lbs as a rider.

I can’t figure out for the life of me how people have entirely opposing experiences with their suspension lol. I’ve read the same about the Lyrik versus the 36 and people trying to tell me the Lyrik is more supportive when I believe the opposite.

So, to each their own I guess? Lol I can’t explain it
flag XDeltaFactor
Posted: Apr 12, 2020 at 14:23 Quote
It's very true that you may get those results.

Simple fact is a lot of riders either don't tune (at all) for example, leaving the rebound adjuster fully open thinking faster recovery means the shock responds faster to the terrain, not touching LSC/HSC because they don't know what that does, not having the right amount (or type) of tokens and just dealing with how the shock (or bike) comes from the factory.

Some riders that do tune their shock often tune to their riding style that they use the majority of the time. For example if they spend most of their time taking on challenging sections going up (think Moab, Utah) and only for a short time spend time going downhill, then riding at a leisurely pace until the next set of features, it won't behave properly when you use that tune at a bike park or trail that has a much higher sustained speed range.

Auto manufacturers don't tune their suspension settings at 25mph because one driver spends a ton of time in traffic, then make adjustments for when you just might spend a little time driving at 60mph. The same goes for MTB's, it's best to tune at the higher range of speed and terrain you will face first, then make adjustments to improve low speed performance and feel.
flag XDeltaFactor
Posted: Apr 12, 2020 at 14:44 Quote
One of the key reference points we use is a coil shock.

Coil shocks are linear if you see it on a graph, or if you're relatively experienced, you can easily notice the difference between a coil and air shock very quickly.

Coils:

- are much more supple at the initial stroke, erases almost all of the small chatter, takes less force to get the coil moving than air shocks

- have a much supportive mid stroke range than air shocks

- doesn't have the sharp ramp up making a rider notice a "wall" of firmness like an air shock

- has very consistent behavior over multiple repeated runs vs air shock (due to less heat soak)

Air:

- has more initial stroke resistance requiring more force than a coil to get moving (even with Evolv or Debonair)

- mid stroke support is less than a coil making it easier to blow through it. most riders try to counter this by adding more tokens to firm up the end stroke, hoping some of the additional firmness bleeds into the mid stroke area (it doesn't help much and drastically alters the end stroke in the process)

- has a ramp up near end stroke that's better for bottom out resistance

So the goal of the tune is to achieve the coil shock's initial and mid stroke benefits but retain the air shock's superior end stroke protection.

Right now, there's no way to make either the X2 or DPX2 achieve this because there's no way to tune the air can like you can with the Rockshox MegNeg which is quite a remarkable and relatively cheap aftermarket option.

The MegNeg allows for a range of tuning that will lower the force at the initial stroke allowing it to move almost close to a coil. A larger negative chamber will require more air pressure to compensate. Additional air volume inside the shock provides a nice boost to the mid stroke area that tokens alone cannot achieve, and adding more air into the shock naturally starts the ramp up near the end stroke sooner allowing for a more aggressive style ride.

There is an upper and lower limit where it won't provide benefits, like if you're overly heavy or overly light for a rider however.

One myth a lot of riders stick to is, they think using more of the available travel is a good mark of having a proper tune, it's most often not. That's like saying if you drive your car to work/school and back and could somehow mark how much suspension travel was used as an indicator, each time you notice that the suspension comes close to bottoming out is a good sign, it's not.

It's never about how much travel you're using as it is about what the suspension does during the stroke. A rider brought his X2 to us and asked for a better tune, we saw that it was using almost all (59-60mm) of travel on moderate rides. After tuning, the indicator showed that he was using 10mm less overall, but it was much better over small chatter, had a much improved mid stroke support, less pedal strikes, easier to put the power down while unseated, while the rider never noticed that all this was achieved using less of the available, total travel.
flag gmoss
Posted: Apr 12, 2020 at 15:42 Quote
I imagine shocks on different susp designs have a different feel, performance. That could explain some of the differences felt.
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