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What’s a good first downhill bike?

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What’s a good first downhill bike?
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flag SECROW11
Posted: Feb 3, 2020 at 13:51 Quote
I already have a dirt jump bike but I want to branch out and try downhill racing. I estimate that I will have around £1000 to spend, I’m probably going to get second hand, what are some bikes I should consider.
flag cesarg
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 at 9:23 Quote
If you want to be competitive, you will likely need a modern geo frame. At least 27.5" wheels, at most 64.5° head angle. If you are looking for used (which at that price point, I think you would be), look for 2015 or newer, as that's when downhill bikes began joining the long and slack crowd. GT Fury and Giant Glory had some very attractive builds that can be found for around that price. The Trek Session is another great bike, with a solid racing pedigree. On a DH bike, prioritize brakes and tires (and geometry) over drivetrain and weight. A bike with Deore derailleur/shifter and Zee brakes will descend faster than one with XTR/Saint derraileur/shifter and Deore brakes.
flag SECROW11
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 at 13:19 Quote
cesarg wrote:
If you want to be competitive, you will likely need a modern geo frame. At least 27.5" wheels, at most 64.5° head angle. If you are looking for used (which at that price point, I think you would be), look for 2015 or newer, as that's when downhill bikes began joining the long and slack crowd. GT Fury and Giant Glory had some very attractive builds that can be found for around that price. The Trek Session is another great bike, with a solid racing pedigree. On a DH bike, prioritize brakes and tires (and geometry) over drivetrain and weight. A bike with Deore derailleur/shifter and Zee brakes will descend faster than one with XTR/Saint derraileur/shifter and Deore brakes.
Thanks for a few suggestion, and the information about the geo of the bikes, I didn’t know it played that much of a role
flag cesarg
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 at 16:21 Quote
SECROW11 wrote:
Thanks for a few suggestion, and the information about the geo of the bikes, I didn’t know it played that much of a role

Glad to help. Just keep in mind; although a modern geo bike may be faster, you can have just as much fun on an older 26" bike, for a not inconsiderable amount of money less.
flag Loki87
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 at 20:25 Quote
SECROW11 wrote:
cesarg wrote:
If you want to be competitive, you will likely need a modern geo frame. At least 27.5" wheels, at most 64.5° head angle. If you are looking for used (which at that price point, I think you would be), look for 2015 or newer, as that's when downhill bikes began joining the long and slack crowd. GT Fury and Giant Glory had some very attractive builds that can be found for around that price. The Trek Session is another great bike, with a solid racing pedigree. On a DH bike, prioritize brakes and tires (and geometry) over drivetrain and weight. A bike with Deore derailleur/shifter and Zee brakes will descend faster than one with XTR/Saint derraileur/shifter and Deore brakes.
Thanks for a few suggestion, and the information about the geo of the bikes, I didn’t know it played that much of a role

Geo is literally everything.
You need two things to have fun on a dh-bike.
Good brakes and good geometry. Tires make a huge difference as well.
Everything else can be worked around in some way or upgraded later on.
The thing is though, if you can squeeze out a little more budget, everything counts in those lower price segments so try to go as high as possible with your budget in order to maybe jump a bracket and get a little more quality stuff if possible.
Do not worry about things like wheelsize. Having a bike with good geo in good working condition is the most important thing with such a small budget.

When buying used, consider service intervals. Has the suspension been serviced? Can you do it yourself? If not, that´s another 200 bucks just to not run into issues down the road. If you can do it yourself, factor in some oil and seals into your calculations. Most bikes have been running dry for far too long as most people do not service their equipment, so if you continue riding on used gear, not doing some maintenance will most likely decrease the lifespan of your components drastically. Give the suspoension some love before you start riding the bike (if the previous owner hasn´t done it already).
Also check brake pads. They aren´t really expensive, but all these things will add up in the end as extra cost and are also a good bargaining chip when it comes to price talks.
Check spoke tension on bikes in that price category.
Check if the pedals are in good condition. Nothing worse than getting excited about the new bike only to realize the pedals are missing too many pins and you´re slipping off constantly and you need to spend another 30 bucks on new pedals.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 at 20:47 Quote
Consider renting. Downhill bikes are expensive and plummet in value. A used bike at that price may not be good enough to meet your needs. You can rent many times before it costs you as much as the loss you'll take on buying a passable DH bike. Just a thought!

Another idea: It's true, as others have said, that geometry is very important. If you purchase an older bike, get one that's as large as possible, since older bikes are usually quite short. You may be able to put an off-axis headset (Angleset or angled cups) on a bike with less than ideal geometry to modernize it a little.
flag cesarg
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 6:10 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Consider renting. Downhill bikes are expensive and plummet in value. A used bike at that price may not be good enough to meet your needs. You can rent many times before it costs you as much as the loss you'll take on buying a passable DH bike. Just a thought!

Another idea: It's true, as others have said, that geometry is very important. If you purchase an older bike, get one that's as large as possible, since older bikes are usually quite short. You may be able to put an off-axis headset (Angleset or angled cups) on a bike with less than ideal geometry to modernize it a little.

I admit I haven't raced very much, so my experience is limited. However, I have never been to a race where you can rent a bike. In fact, I needed to register my bike for the race a few days in advance, to show that I was racing in the right division, etc. Do you mean renting from a bike shop? Maybe that's an alternative.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 6:19 Quote
cesarg wrote:
Do you mean renting from a bike shop? Maybe that's an alternative.

Yes, a shop, trail centre - wherever you can get one.
flag Loki87
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 7:25 Quote
Rentals are usually not ideal though, as they´re just not set up for your preferences.
I´d hate to always have to adjust to new crappy brakes, deal with worn tires or be unable to swap to mud tires etc.
Also renting for a whole weekend, assuming you pick up on Friday Morning and return on Monday because otherwise a race weekend isn´t really doable, will set you back at least 400-500€ where i live.
I dunno what rates are where you guys live, but around here it wouldn´t really be a good idea to rent over a longer period of time.
If you´re riding a decent amount of days per season i personally would spend around 2000 just for renting the bike each year. i could literally buy a 4000€ bike every year, then resell at 2000€ at the end of the year and still be within the same price range.
Renting may be good for someone who gets a few days of park each year, but if you wanna race or get a decent amount of riding in each year, it´s probably not ideal for most folks.

Good reminder on the sizing though.
Definitely check the numbers for different bikes as many are considerably smaller than todays bikes.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 8:15 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
Rentals are usually not ideal though, as they´re just not set up for your preferences.

True, but at least a new bike can be set up nicely. A £1000 bike may not be able to be configured to modern standards, no matter how much time you have with it.


Loki87 wrote:
I´d hate to always have to adjust to new crappy brakes, deal with worn tires or be unable to swap to mud tires etc.

Downhill rentals I've encountered tend to be in pretty good shape. Have you experienced otherwise?

I don't get the impression the original poster is likely to be swapping tires for every set of conditions.


Loki87 wrote:
Also renting for a whole weekend, assuming you pick up on Friday Morning and return on Monday because otherwise a race weekend isn´t really doable, will set you back at least 400-500€ where i live.

Daily rates in Canada are around CAD$100 - CAD$160, the latter being for a fully carbon frame with carbon wheels. That's a lot more bike than what OP is getting for £1000. It's been a long time since I've rented a bike, but most shops were willing to let the bike out at closing time on Friday and be returned before opening on Monday without additional charge if the bike wasn't being used on Friday or Monday.


Loki87 wrote:
i could literally buy a 4000€ bike every year, then resell at 2000€ at the end of the year and still be within the same price range.

That's not an option for someone looking at a £1000 bike. This appears to be someone looking to test the waters, not dive in headfirst.


It appears to me that you have a bias against renting and have created some questionable numbers and scenarios to support your position. I'm not saying renting is definitely the best option, but it's a viable - and often overlooked - option to learn about the bikes and the sport with less initial cost, probably ride a better bike, and not worry about maintenance.
flag Loki87
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 9:18 Quote
All true, but as far as my 4000€ bike argument goes against this specifici case it´s also most likely prohibitve for someone in his position to spend his money on rentals as he will be left without any money and without a bike sooner rather than later. It was just an example of the huge cash dump a rental can be in the long run, for anyone who doesn´t rake in a consistent income to support the expense, which seems to be the case here.
I think we pretty much can agree on the fact that dh-bikes are an expensive investment no matter what. They´re a luxury item you´re loosing money on in any circumstances, but if dh is your primary focus you pretty much have to have your own bike. I totally see your argument for someone who owns an enduro or similar bike and wants to rent for the few days of park he gets every year.
I´d just prefer to have a bike to actually ride when i need it and not rely on the availability of a rental.
As we´re talking racing here, and he apparently only owns a dirtbike for other stuff, a dedicated bike is pretty much a must have as a training tool. Just rocking up to the races on a rental without a day of downhill in between seems rather pointless to me.

And just speaking from experience, i really wouldn´t wanna race on a rental due to the associated risks. I know how much stuff i regularly trashed during only one race weekend. If money is tight and you rock up to the shop after a bad weekend with shot wheels and ripped off derailleur, you have to pay up and might not even be able to afford it, especially on said carbon wheeled super bikes. If funds are already tight, that might have you run into some problems real quick. Of course your own bike will need repairs as well, but you can take your time with that or replace with cheaply sourced parts rather than pay the shop premium.

I´m biased against renting as far as setup is a huge concern for me.
Not just tires or brakes, but also springrates. If i´m racing, i want my bike to feel familiar, not deal with differing setups every time, but that´s just me.

So if you have a good shop and can steer around those problems, renting may very well be an option. I just don´t see how it can work in the long run when your primary focus is downhill and funds are tight.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 9:27 Quote
I think the problem is that you're answering a question of the sort "What should I buy to become a serious downhill racer?". In that context, I completely agree with you - but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I think it's more like "I'm pretty broke and want to see if I like DH racing; what should I do?".
flag Loki87
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 10:16 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
I think the problem is that you're answering a question of the sort "What should I buy to become a serious downhill racer?". In that context, I completely agree with you - but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I think it's more like "I'm pretty broke and want to see if I like DH racing; what should I do?".

Nah, not really. I just have been in that exact situation as a broke student and managed to still ride every weekend and race. I would have been totally broke after a month back then had i been relying on rentals as i scraped together all my cash and bought a bike, but after that i slowly built everything up while trying to sustain the ongoing costs of lift tickets, race fees and spare parts, which was already a lot. I would have just ended up burning all my money in no time hadn´t i had my own (cheap) bike back then.
Maybe i´m just misunderstanding his intentions, but when someone tells me he wants to go racing, that tells me his focus will be on riding his downhill bike. Not as in he´ll try to become a top racer, but he seems rather serious about riding downhill in general, otherwise he´d have worded it more along the usual lines of "i wanna try downhill". So to me he seems pretty committed to making this work and imho it´s not really satisfying to only ride a few days a year but you rather want to be able to ride your hometrails and some park days as well, which escalates rental costs pretty quickly.

I guess he needs to specify what he means by "go racing".
If you´re right with your assumption, and he doesn´t know what he´s getting into at all, i´m totally with you.
Try a rental first and maybe don´t even think about racing the first year.
Racing just escalates costs immensely, even if you´re not competitive at all. You still will do a lot more stupid shit and break stuff, it´s inevitable in a racing setting and it really takes a certain budget and commitment to make it work.
If however he really wants to actively get into dh (not only racing), i still stand by my point that owning a dedicated bike is pretty much mandatory as otherwise it´s really limiting your ability to ride on a constant basis.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 10:18 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
[ ... ] but he seems rather serious about riding downhill in general, otherwise he´d have worded it more along the usual lines of "i wanna try downhill".
SECROW11 wrote:
I already have a dirt jump bike but I want to branch out and try downhill racing.

His profile says he's 19 years old. I interpret this as someone who's broke and DH-curious, not DH-serious. We'll have to wait for him to clarify.
flag SECROW11
Posted: Feb 5, 2020 at 13:54 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Loki87 wrote:
[ ... ] but he seems rather serious about riding downhill in general, otherwise he´d have worded it more along the usual lines of "i wanna try downhill".
SECROW11 wrote:
I already have a dirt jump bike but I want to branch out and try downhill racing.

His profile says he's 19 years old. I interpret this as someone who's broke and DH-curious, not DH-serious. We'll have to wait for him to clarify.
I’m not 19 years old I’m 13, I didn’t put my real age because I wasn’t sure about the website to be honest but I’m thinking of selling my bike and getting a downhill bike to TRY it out, and if I don’t like it I will just sell it and get a dirt jumper again, however if I do like it then I will probably stick to downhill and enter into some races, get the skills needed then when i feel like my bike is holding me back I will look to upgrade. I’m paying for my bike with my savings and what I get for my dirt jumper, so going all out and buying a £4000 bike will not work, neither will a rental because I don’t have the money to be able to have enough time on a rental. Hope this cleared up your assumptions feel free to ask anymore questions.
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