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tools to build up my bike
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flag fenyx
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 9:06 Quote
I use park tools and i have there stand i fixed a number of bikes with there tools and i never had a promblem. They work real well and i find them handy to have. My friend paid around 120 for the kit and it was well worth the cash
flag BMX8000
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 9:58 Quote
I agree just get a tool kit. Preferably Park and get one with all the stuff listed above.
flag jallan
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 10:23 Quote
nothingsshocking wrote:
konarider30 wrote:
oh, cus i was thinking bout buying one of there tool kits. it comes with everything and a carrying kit.but maybe not now.

your basing the quality of there tools on one persons opinion Rolleyes even though 99% of the bike mechanics and shops out there use them says a little more about there quality. There a little more expensive but you get what you pay for plus a limited lifetime warranty.

Just because i've said it doesnt mean its only 1%. If you look around and look at hte quality of the tools then you will understand. The park tool chain cleaning device is made of an unbelievabley brittle plastic.

If you don't buy a toolset/kit then your best bet is looking through magazines for the highest rated tools for quality/endurance. Or going to a local bike shop and asking what brand tools they use for each job. I know for a FACT that two of my local bike shops barely use/sell parktool tools because of the fact that they aren't as structurally strong as other brands and cost too much than they should.

For allen keys, The park tool ones i had rounded relatively quickly and didnt take much effort to do so however i then purchased some X-tools which were a few £ cheapers which you would expect lower quality. However no the X-tools were far superior. Many people assume parktool to be the best and probably only because its the most well known, people are scared of exploring the product market therefore this happens.

nothingsshocking, Don't be jumping to conclusions and giving out ludicrous figures of 99% people prefer Parktool, Because if that was the case why the hell would there be other tool companies out there if they had such a high market share like 99%.

Here is an example of overpricing on a tool you can buy on its own
A Bottom bracket 8 prong tool is used here.

Park Tool BB Tool 8 Prong - BBT8
RRP £14.95

Shimano BB Tool XTR BB
RRP £12.95

They shimano tool is often found for cheaper than that also, You may think £2 is not much of a difference but think if you're investing in a toolkit from this company how many tools are you getting more than a hundred or so ok ? If they were all £2 more than the other leading brand which works identically then why are you doing such a thing ?
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 10:57 Quote
jallan wrote:
Just because i've said it doesnt mean its only 1%. If you look around and look at hte quality of the tools then you will understand. The park tool chain cleaning device is made of an unbelievabley brittle plastic.

If you don't buy a toolset/kit then your best bet is looking through magazines for the highest rated tools for quality/endurance. Or going to a local bike shop and asking what brand tools they use for each job. I know for a FACT that two of my local bike shops barely use/sell parktool tools because of the fact that they aren't as structurally strong as other brands and cost too much than they should.

For allen keys, The park tool ones i had rounded relatively quickly and didnt take much effort to do so however i then purchased some X-tools which were a few £ cheapers which you would expect lower quality. However no the X-tools were far superior. Many people assume parktool to be the best and probably only because its the most well known, people are scared of exploring the product market therefore this happens.

I find this hard to believe.

I've spent the last 5 years working in 5 different bikes shops. Almost exclusively they use Park Tools. The quality is too good. Buying cheaper tools means you end up buying new tools too soon to replace stuff that gets worn out.

However, we are talking about a garage mechanic who won't be using his tools everyday like a shop will. For this kid I would suggest this tool kit.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=22310&subcategory_ID=4218

I bought one similar to this when I got into biking 8 years ago. Over the years I've worn out/lost/given away most of the tools in it, but I've also built up dozens of bikes and done hundreds of repairs with the tools. The quality isn't as nice as Park or Pedro's tool kits, but the price is amazing. With that kit, a Park Tool stand (they make the best and it is worth the investment) and a bit of innovation (homemade headset installer, homemade bleed kit, some ACE Hardware specials, and a rubber mallet) you can work on just about any bike out there.

It isn't the best tool kit, but with it you can work on the best bikes.
flag jallan
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 12:29 Quote
-ito- wrote:
Almost exclusively they use Park Tools

I find this hard to believe.

I don't...

Go to my simple point that if ParkTool are the "best" and that "99% of people prefer them" then why are there other tool producers out there surviving ?

My local bike shop use one or two parktool tools, and I know that because i actually asked them when i was there talking about a BB tool. They use the best tools from a variety of products. Just because parktool my produce the best of say product "X" doesn't mean they have the consistent quality to produce the equivalent of "Y" product. Therefore it's actually rather simple to believe. This is where my statement on the reliability of some of ParkTools tools comes into play... Understand?

However I agree with your toolkit selection when I started biking i went for something like that. However I've bought tools by themselves since then to build up my selection of tools and I'm rather happy with what I have now. Once you've got a lot of tools also in the first place theres no point buying another toolkit as you will just have multiple amounts of the same tool.

Also I laugh when you assume that if the tool is more expensive it means its a better tool. Use that same basis on cars and you'd be a fool. A corvette is a pile of wank but for the same price you can get a Jaguar a quality build... A simple yet effective point.

I'm not trying to get at you, but why have you worked in 5 bikeshops within 5 years ?

EDIT: Parktool in the UK also might have an increased priced, hence the reason they are quite expensive because they are imported this may be why we disagree. However there are many other manufacturers which sell tools for cheaper which have just the same quality or better. About 99% of people who have used Parktool probably haven't used any other tools, for example you probably by the sounds of it. (Yes its a figure like the other guy made, a stupidly exaggerated one but also kind of realistic)therefore they're just assuming its the best... Like many products people tend to do. This argument seems very similar to all the "OMG HAYES ARE CRAP, KONA'S SUCK" type of opinions.
-ito- wrote:
Almost exclusively they use Park Tools
This is where i believe you may not be experienced with many other brand of tools. It does NOT mean they are the best tools, it could mean they are easy to be supplied as a shop, readily available that is. Maybe they get a deal on them... So that doesn't really help you're side.
Yes I'm taking this too seriously, but I dont want this person to invest in a toolkit that he doesn't need or has tools that begin to crack after a few uses because people who only seem to use one brand think theyre amazing as they have nothing to compare it to.

Also please don't come out with some comment saying that i'm ignorant and I'm only defending my ego or whatever because i disagree... Because that isnt sticking to the point thats only attacking me personally (I'm not saying that you are one of those but when people seem to disagree then one is often abused)


Oh and to the guy who started the thread...

Remember:
A good quality grease ( perhaps a grease gun, you can see some of them in a bonus pack sometimes )
Loctite
perhaps an anti seize compound
chain lube ( I reccomend Rock 'n' Roll chain lube, in wet weather you need to reapply it after each ride but it barely uses any to do so and its a brilliant and fast lube, cleans the chains you wipe it down by back pedalling with the rag, job done its lubed)
and some rags to clean your chain if you don't go for the chain scrubber option.
Some cable lube, unless you use coated cables.
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 12:47 Quote
jallan wrote:
-ito- wrote:

I find this hard to believe.
I'm not trying to get at you, but why have you worked in 5 bikeshops within 5 years ?

EDIT: Parktool in the UK also might have an increased priced, hence the reason they are quite expensive because they are imported this may be why we disagree. However there are many other manufacturers which sell tools for cheaper which have just the same quality or better.

No worries about the question:

I started out as a shop cleaner for a shop in Santa Barbara (shop number 1). The next year I started working at a shop in college (shop #2). That summer I went home and worked at another shop in Santa Barbara as it paid more and carried a wider selection of DH, XC, and road bikes (shop #3). Last year I moved to Rochester, NY for 11 months. I spent a month working for one shop (shop #4, but they had too many mechanics so I got a job at another shop in Rochester (shop #5). I recently left Rochester, NY and moved to St. George, UT. In the next month I'll probably be working once or twice a week at shop #6. With the exception of shop #4 and shop #1 you could call up any of the manager's at those 5 shops and get a good work recommendation for me. #1 and #4 probably wouldn't give it as there is a note in my file that I went to work for their rivals. Both 2 and 3 have open positions for me if I should ever wish to go back.

In that time period I've worked with everything from Campagnolo tools (the best quality tools I've ever touched), Pedro's, Park, and a number of cheap, basic brands. Properly used a 5mm Park tool will last longer than the cheaper brands. I've used the cheaper brands, they tend to wear out faster, sad but true. Maybe their consumer products are cheaper, but I am in love with the T and Y wrenches from Park. In a shop scenario the only other manufacturer of tools I would use is Pedro's. Unfortunately they aren't as widely distributed and they don't sell as well as the Park blue.

I still think that for a beginning mechanic a cheaper tool set like the one I posted makes sense. You'll never use it enough to wear out the tools and it doesn't matter if you lose a piece or two. Over the years you might need one or two more tools (like I needed a 16 and 14mm cone wrench for my hubs).

I would say a good lube, some cable cutters (which you can get a generic pair of for DIRT CHEAP), and a Park Tool stand are all that is missing from that kit. And you can get away without all of those except the good lube.

P.S. WD40 is not a lubricant. It STRIPS lubricant from metals.
flag jamesx
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 12:51 Quote
Brake tab and BB Facing Equipment if you want nice long lasting bearings (especially in external BBs) and properly aligned calipers.
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 12:55 Quote
3ven wrote:
Brake tab and BB Facing Equipment if you want nice long lasting bearings (especially in external BBs) and properly aligned calipers.

Not worth purchasing unless you plan on opening up a shop or buying loads of bikes. Yes, they are important, but the tool costs as much as some frames do. Just have your local shop do it. It only needs to be done once. I don't know any home mechanics who have such a tool.

99% of the time you can get away with just scraping the paint of the BB tube and headtube ends.
flag jallan
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:00 Quote
-ito- wrote:
[you could call up any of the manager's at those 5 shops and get a good work recommendation for me.

I don't think I'll bother with that one Razz , For one I'm in the UK. Pedro tools are really hard to come by in the UK they're usually out of stock on the mail order sites.

Do you understand what I'm getting at though? I know some tools from Parktool are simply amazing, but others seem to be lacking in quality. You can go elsewhere and pick it up for cheaper and receive a higher quality tool. I've gone through a few sets of allen keys in the past 3 years of fixing my bikes, and I've also found a pair of keys which i've fallen in love with X-Tools P handle allen keys are brilliant. Also a quid or so cheaper than Parktool with what i believe is a bit better quality and also cheaper!

-ito- wrote:
3ven wrote:
Brake tab and BB Facing Equipment if you want nice long lasting bearings (especially in external BBs) and properly aligned calipers.

Not worth purchasing unless you plan on opening up a shop or buying loads of bikes. Yes, they are important, but the tool costs as much as some frames do. Just have your local shop do it. It only needs to be done once. I don't know any home mechanics who have such a tool.

99% of the time you can get away with just scraping the paint of the BB tube and headtube ends.

Haha, he's right if you want it facing take it to a shop or just improvise.

OH and WD40 is evil. However a light film of WD40 on your frame is good if you're in muddy conditions because when you get back from a ride you can brush the mud of A LOT easier. However it you miss the frame and get your discs... Unlucky on that one!
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:07 Quote
jallan wrote:
-ito- wrote:
[you could call up any of the manager's at those 5 shops and get a good work recommendation for me.

I don't think I'll bother with that one Razz , For one I'm in the UK. Pedro tools are really hard to come by in the UK they're usually out of stock on the mail order sites.

Do you understand what I'm getting at though? I know some tools from Parktool are simply amazing, but others seem to be lacking in quality. You can go elsewhere and pick it up for cheaper and receive a higher quality tool. I've gone through a few sets of allen keys in the past 3 years of fixing my bikes, and I've also found a pair of keys which i've fallen in love with X-Tools P handle allen keys are brilliant. Also a quid or so cheaper than Parktool with what i believe is a bit better quality and also cheaper!

I understand what you are saying. As a mechanic though I trust Park Tools (though all of my mini-tools come from Crank Brothers and if they made a full set of tools I'd buy that). For the garage mechanic I have no problem with lower end tools. In my experience they work just as well, just not as durable when you are using them all day, every day in a shop setting.

I would like to know what tools specifically you got from Park that were sub-par. I can also understand the frustration that would go with that purchase. If you've found something cheaper that works well/better that is sweet. I still use my $40 kit from 8 years ago for most of my repairs on my bike.
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:10 Quote
jallan wrote:
OH and WD40 is evil. However a light film of WD40 on your frame is good if you're in muddy conditions because when you get back from a ride you can brush the mud of A LOT easier. However it you miss the frame and get your discs... Unlucky on that one!

I prefer a spray of an 8:1 Water:Simple Green solution to take off mud. Works well on tires and small cracks, plus is biodegradable.

Spreading a thin application of Crisco over your bike makes it shiny and keeps mud from adhering. It makes a mess in the dust though. Wipes off easily enough too. And no chemicals around your brakes.

I used WD40 on my bike once when I was 15. Never made that mistake again.
flag jallan
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:31 Quote
-ito- wrote:
I would like to know what tools specifically you got from Park that were sub-par.I still use my $40 kit from 8 years ago for most of my repairs on my bike.

When you find a toolkit that would last that long you feel like you've made a profit it from lol.

Well to start of with my major annoyance with Parktool is their chainscrubber device, I bought it, used maybe 3 times and then i knocked it over and it fell perhaps half a metre if that and completely shattered, hundreds of cracks in the plastic. That went straight out. I think they could of easily just put a more durable/thicker plastic casing on it so that it would happen like this. I'm not the only one who has encountered this problem either.

Tyre levers, Ok yeh so Tyre levers aren't exactly strong especially when they're plastic. However you don't expect all 3 from a set to snap when you need them most. I then ordered some Specialised Tyre levers and yes another plastic set, However due to their shape you can put a hell of a lot of stress on them without breaking/bending them. ( I didnt go seeing how much of the tyre i could lift just using one park tool lever by the way ) A simple product but the wrong design proves fatal to the tool.

Also a multi tool i had, I was at delamere and had a little problem so i scoot down off my bike whip it out and start using it, next thing i know is it basically crumbles in my hand and when i look down, im just holding a bunch of allen keys and screw drivers in my hand. It was kind of stunned thought i was a bit of a muscle man but to be honest i was only tightening a disc mount bolt so i didnt understand that one.

Park tool 20 splined BB tool (cant remember the specific tool name) I really don't know how i managed to do it, but when installing a BB i managed to crack the tool which did get me frustrated as i hadn't got the otherside installed so could you imagine what my face was like haha. That one was probably the turning point of my tool individual tool selection! I had a very stubborn BB also at the time, so it could of contributed.

I had a problem with some of the P shaped allen keys aswell I managed to round one within about a week and i really couldnt understand it because the bolt was fine just the allen key was no long an allen key... Also the plastic handles feel cheap and tacky. Other than that I did to be honest love them but then i found another company with the same idea! All these mishaps and a few others over 3 years doesn't help your confidence with a company. Now After 3 years started off with just a set of allen keys I went on to buy a cheap tool kit called "LifeLine Basic" was £40 about say $75 to you maybe. Ever since then I have been expanding it I went on to buy my park tool chain, allen keys, spoke wrench which to be honest I f*ckING LOVE!!! That is the best tool they have produced i think! lol Crankpuller tool (the one with the long wrench) which wasnt impressive either it seemed to damage threads. With these problems I began to expand and go for whatever had the best rating from my localbike shop and bikers alike. I have quite a variety, however I'm lacking a bike stand! I had a scaffolding construction kit (like 100) poles which I managed to make a stable bike stand out of which held the bike from under the top tube. Then for any repair I'd pop it onto there and use it from there.

I know theres bound to be tool failures but when you pay so much for a tool you dont expect it to fail. They're obviously not going to be able to keep a consistent high quality throughout their whole tool range and thats why i vary between tool brands.

"What you wrote, (cant get the quoting to work)
I used WD40 on my bike once when I was 15. Never made that mistake again

I've made a mistake of getting it on my disc once, I didnt pay attention when i was covering the frame in a fine mist lol. This was on my XC bike. I went riding and then when i realise there was no bite in the rear disc i was kind of dismayed. I could literally ride with the lever all the way down and it would still slip through. Rode like 20 metres with it fully on and got off, the disc was unbelievabley hot through the friction and it had sort of solved the problem. Then my neighbour who is a car mechanic clean the disc for me with some chemicals (not sure what) and then i just bought new pads.
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:39 Quote
jallan wrote:
-ito- wrote:
I would like to know what tools specifically you got from Park that were sub-par.I still use my $40 kit from 8 years ago for most of my repairs on my bike.

When you find a toolkit that would last that long you feel like you've made a profit it from lol.

Well to start of with my major annoyance with Parktool is their chainscrubber device, I bought it, used maybe 3 times and then i knocked it over and it fell perhaps half a metre if that and completely shattered, hundreds of cracks in the plastic. That went straight out. I think they could of easily just put a more durable/thicker plastic casing on it so that it would happen like this. I'm not the only one who has encountered this problem either.

Tyre levers, Ok yeh so Tyre levers aren't exactly strong especially when they're plastic. However you don't expect all 3 from a set to snap when you need them most. I then ordered some Specialised Tyre levers and yes another plastic set, However due to their shape you can put a hell of a lot of stress on them without breaking/bending them. ( I didnt go seeing how much of the tyre i could lift just using one park tool lever by the way ) A simple product but the wrong design proves fatal to the tool.

Also a multi tool i had, I was at delamere and had a little problem so i scoot down off my bike whip it out and start using it, next thing i know is it basically crumbles in my hand and when i look down, im just holding a bunch of allen keys and screw drivers in my hand. It was kind of stunned thought i was a bit of a muscle man but to be honest i was only tightening a disc mount bolt so i didnt understand that one.

Park tool 20 splined BB tool (cant remember the specific tool name) I really don't know how i managed to do it, but when installing a BB i managed to crack the tool which did get me frustrated as i hadn't got the otherside installed so could you imagine what my face was like haha. That one was probably the turning point of my tool individual tool selection! I had a very stubborn BB also at the time, so it could of contributed.

I remember purchasing the Park Chain cleaning kit. I used it once and it has since sat in my parent's garage. If it makes you feel better, nobody makes a decent one of those. I've seen the Pedro's one used in a shop once and the owner asked the mechanic if he didn't have enough rags to clean up the chain.

I did break a bolt in a Park Tool uber-mini-tool. However that was on a seized bolt that didn't come loose until I used a two foot long cheater bar (don't ask me how a 5mm bolt got that tight).

Tire levers are a dime a dozen. I think I've got one that has survived everything and I have no idea what it is. Check out Soma Cycles for the best tire levers you've ever used.
http://www.somafab.com/tirelevers.html

And I still use my Wrench Force crank puller with a 8mm foot long allen tool. Somehow it still works, though I've put it through hell.

I totally understand the mishmash of personal tools people get.
flag jallan
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:44 Quote
-ito- wrote:
I totally understand the mishmash of personal tools people get.

Haha we should make a list of like the ultimate tools, If it receives a certain amount of praise then it goes on the list. Would make things a lot easier!

I'm actually rather reassured and now i was actually thinking about buying the chain scrubber from pedros as my rock n roll lube doesnt clean enough in this weather. Now not so much interested! I think splitting the chain once in a while sticking it in a bath of degreaser and scrubbing it clean and the spin drying it above your head is the way to go... If you want to die with a chain wrapped around your neck that is.

A quality multi tool is hard to come across, you go to buy one then you see a one with like one more attatchment and you think should i or shouldnt i. You think i should but then you see another one with like 5 more... and you think WHY NOT! Next it becomes like a 20kilogram swiss army knife with microwave attatchments and you end up just making a tool box out of it...
flag i-t-o
Posted: Jan 22, 2008 at 13:50 Quote
jallan wrote:
A quality multi tool is hard to come across, you go to buy one then you see a one with like one more attatchment and you think should i or shouldnt i. You think i should but then you see another one with like 5 more... and you think WHY NOT! Next it becomes like a 20kilogram swiss army knife with microwave attatchments and you end up just making a tool box out of it...

http://www.crankbrothers.com/multi5.php

All I carry on most rides.

A rag, some degreaser, and an old toothbrush are all I need to get my drivetrain clean.

Though sometimes I'm not as regular about it as I could be:
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