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YT = Swindler ?

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YT = Swindler ?
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flag effeffeff
Posted: Mar 1, 2021 at 5:02 Quote
@floridahasmtbtoo
What do you ride normally?
What does your bashguard look like?
This crack seems unusual to me.
flag FloridaHasMTBToo
Posted: Mar 1, 2021 at 5:33 Quote
effeffeff wrote:
@floridahasmtbtoo
What do you ride normally?
What does your bashguard look like?
This crack seems unusual to me.

I agree that the crack is unusual. I ride literally everything on this bike, from endurance road rides to lift access DH. Mostly ride dirt jumps, skatepark, street, and some trail riding though. The bashguard is the one that came on the bike, so pretty much a 1/4 inch sheet of plastic molded to the lower part of the downtube.
flag Dr-YTMTB
Posted: Mar 1, 2021 at 5:58 Quote
FloridaHasMTBToo wrote:
effeffeff wrote:
@floridahasmtbtoo
What do you ride normally?
What does your bashguard look like?
This crack seems unusual to me.

I agree that the crack is unusual. I ride literally everything on this bike, from endurance road rides to lift access DH. Mostly ride dirt jumps, skatepark, street, and some trail riding though. The bashguard is the one that came on the bike, so pretty much a 1/4 inch sheet of plastic molded to the lower part of the downtube.

I think you might be using the bike in ways it wasn’t intended. They’re tough frames, but unlikely built with street, skatepark, etc riding in mind. Coming down hard onto concrete isn’t what a trail bike is purpose built to do.

Maybe get yourself a dirt-love for that stuff and stop expecting your Jeffsy to take it.

I ride a 2017 CF1, I’ve sent it down some of the most punishing black and double black trails in my state. It’s run the Whole Enchilada in Moab more times than I can count now, and it’s not even given me a hiccup. I’ve wrecked plenty, done medium sized drops, jumps, and soaked up all the square edged gnar at speed, still can’t find a crack in my frame. But if I was riding it in a skatepark, etc, I wouldn’t be shocked if something failed. That’s just abuse that a trail bike isn’t built to take.
flag DoubleCrownAddict
Posted: Mar 8, 2021 at 0:02 Quote
DoubleCrownAddict wrote:
notnew wrote:
this is common in aluminium welding.
you can get cracks in the heat affected zone.
i got a crack in a canyon in HAZ.
it can happen on any bike. there is no NDT procedure to detect (predict) it.
its down to welder 'on the day'... and you can be unlucky. if it happens it happens 6mth to 3 years after manuf.

i was quality manager for a 1.5bn project and was able to ask 'a few professionals'
(weld inspectors).

comparing carbon and alu cracks is talking nonsense. the material properties and joining methods are not equivalent. do not mix the two.

yeah i thought alu was more reliable than carbon when i bought it.... live and learn...
speaking of which i am sure a metallurgist who reads this will augment this....i will not argue.

Quote="FloridaHasMTBToo"]
Killingtonracer wrote:
My Capra has a known problem with the chain stays (YT user forum) that should be recalled CPSC.
Is this issue just known to happen on Capras or does happen on the Jeffsys as well? I cracked my Jeffsy around the left rear chainstay weld, and was wondering if this is just a freak accident or if there is an issue with the MK2 AL Jeffsys.
2020 Jeffsy Base took it off a 10 or so foot drop and I guess it just cracked. The dang bike has lasted me only five months

It doesn't happen on all bikes, and you expose the weakness of your opinion in your own post by saying it "comes down to the welder of the day".

It comes down to good manufacturing process and quality control. Aluminum bikes can be strong and reliable, but if the company rushes manufacturing, lacks QC,overheats it, the frame is going to be more likely to crack.[/Quote]

Ok, I would agree with that. The better companies don't rush it, have good QC, and good manufacturing processes.

Makes sense that cost cutting companies like YT and Canyon who emphasize price and value over everything else would have alu frames that are more likely to crack because they are slacking at manufacturing.
flag MattyFive
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 1:04 Quote
notnew wrote:
this is common in aluminium welding.
you can get cracks in the heat affected zone.
i got a crack in a canyon in HAZ.
it can happen on any bike. there is no NDT procedure to detect (predict) it.
its down to welder 'on the day'... and you can be unlucky. if it happens it happens 6mth to 3 years after manuf.

i was quality manager for a 1.5bn project and was able to ask 'a few professionals'
(weld inspectors).

comparing carbon and alu cracks is talking nonsense. the material properties and joining methods are not equivalent. do not mix the two.

yeah i thought alu was more reliable than carbon when i bought it.... live and learn...
speaking of which i am sure a metallurgist who reads this will augment this....i will not argue.

Quote="FloridaHasMTBToo"]
Killingtonracer wrote:
My Capra has a known problem with the chain stays (YT user forum) that should be recalled CPSC.
Is this issue just known to happen on Capras or does happen on the Jeffsys as well? I cracked my Jeffsy around the left rear chainstay weld, and was wondering if this is just a freak accident or if there is an issue with the MK2 AL Jeffsys.
2020 Jeffsy Base took it off a 10 or so foot drop and I guess it just cracked. The dang bike has lasted me only five months
[/Quote]

It's down to the quality/conditions of the welding process. There's many factors and nothing is as simple as it seems. Even using cheap welding rod will give you a shit joint. Welding in a barn vs welding in an environmentally controlled factory.
This can happen on any bike but most certainly effects one more than another. If YT are notorious for this which it appears they are then their process is not great, like their paint!
I'm CEO of the £3Trn project and head of Engineering at... Earth and the Moon and currently working on trans-dimensional travel in my garden shed. Hopefully my credentials will validate my claims.
flag streetfighter848
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 2:58 Quote
MattyFive wrote:
notnew wrote:
this is common in aluminium welding.
you can get cracks in the heat affected zone.
i got a crack in a canyon in HAZ.
it can happen on any bike. there is no NDT procedure to detect (predict) it.
its down to welder 'on the day'... and you can be unlucky. if it happens it happens 6mth to 3 years after manuf.

i was quality manager for a 1.5bn project and was able to ask 'a few professionals'
(weld inspectors).

comparing carbon and alu cracks is talking nonsense. the material properties and joining methods are not equivalent. do not mix the two.

yeah i thought alu was more reliable than carbon when i bought it.... live and learn...
speaking of which i am sure a metallurgist who reads this will augment this....i will not argue.

Quote="FloridaHasMTBToo"]
Killingtonracer wrote:
My Capra has a known problem with the chain stays (YT user forum) that should be recalled CPSC.
Is this issue just known to happen on Capras or does happen on the Jeffsys as well? I cracked my Jeffsy around the left rear chainstay weld, and was wondering if this is just a freak accident or if there is an issue with the MK2 AL Jeffsys.
2020 Jeffsy Base took it off a 10 or so foot drop and I guess it just cracked. The dang bike has lasted me only five months

It's down to the quality/conditions of the welding process. There's many factors and nothing is as simple as it seems. Even using cheap welding rod will give you a shit joint. Welding in a barn vs welding in an environmentally controlled factory.
This can happen on any bike but most certainly effects one more than another. If YT are notorious for this which it appears they are then their process is not great, like their paint!
I'm CEO of the £3Trn project and head of Engineering at... Earth and the Moon and currently working on trans-dimensional travel in my garden shed. Hopefully my credentials will validate my claims.[/Quote]

Interesting that YT claim the new alu frames will not crack because they redesigned them by removing the hole in the swingarm. Apparently, that was the source of most cracks.
flag MattyFive
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 3:05 Quote
Hopefully there is some truth to this but you would normally stop drill a crack in aluminium with a round hole so it doesn't propagate further. Looking at the picture here the holes you can see are away from the weld and nor does the crack originate from the hole.

I'm not a mechanical engineer but it seems unlikely a small round hole would be the cause of a weld failing. It wouldn't somehow transfer stresses to the weld.

Where did you see this information?
flag streetfighter848
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 8:18 Quote
MattyFive wrote:
Hopefully there is some truth to this but you would normally stop drill a crack in aluminium with a round hole so it doesn't propagate further. Looking at the picture here the holes you can see are away from the weld and nor does the crack originate from the hole.

I'm not a mechanical engineer but it seems unlikely a small round hole would be the cause of a weld failing. It wouldn't somehow transfer stresses to the weld.

Where did you see this information?

I emailed tech support when I was considering buying one of the new Pro Al Capras. I specifically asked them if they addressed the aluminum frame cracking issue and that was their response almost verbatim.
flag DJ-24
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 10:00 Quote
That must have been the receptionist that responded.
flag streetfighter848
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 11:53 Quote
DJ-24 wrote:
That must have been the receptionist that responded.

Nope, one of the tech guys. I spoke with him over the phone about other tech questions regarding my Jeffsy.
flag TypicalCanadian
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 16:09 Quote
FloridaHasMTBToo wrote:
photo

Second time I cracked this frame, except this time I cracked it around the bash guard. I don't know how it cracked here, as there are no welds. What this picture doesn't show is the identical crack on the driveside which extends close to the middle of the frame. I'm honestly pretty pissed with the frame quality at this point, but I am just glad to have made it out of my last ride with a complete frame.

What are you hitting that frame on? That guard looks like it has taken a ton of impacts.
flag Dr-YTMTB
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 17:55 Quote
TypicalCanadian wrote:
FloridaHasMTBToo wrote:
photo

Second time I cracked this frame, except this time I cracked it around the bash guard. I don't know how it cracked here, as there are no welds. What this picture doesn't show is the identical crack on the driveside which extends close to the middle of the frame. I'm honestly pretty pissed with the frame quality at this point, but I am just glad to have made it out of my last ride with a complete frame.

What are you hitting that frame on? That guard looks like it has taken a ton of impacts.

Isn’t this the guy that uses his MTB to ride skateparks? So probably coping rail, concrete etc.
flag streetfighter848
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 20:26 Quote
TypicalCanadian wrote:
FloridaHasMTBToo wrote:
photo

Second time I cracked this frame, except this time I cracked it around the bash guard. I don't know how it cracked here, as there are no welds. What this picture doesn't show is the identical crack on the driveside which extends close to the middle of the frame. I'm honestly pretty pissed with the frame quality at this point, but I am just glad to have made it out of my last ride with a complete frame.

What are you hitting that frame on? That guard looks like it has taken a ton of impacts.

LOL, right? I've ridden numerous bikes through boulder fields with loose rocks sharp and all, and I have never seen any bashguard look that rough.
flag MattyFive
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 23:13 Quote
Holy shit, I've just ordered one of these

I think from what I've seen, these are drilled/machined at 30-45° to follow the angle at which the cable or hose exits so if they have sharpe edges then that's a massive design flaw and eventually it will crack like this.
Think I'll try get hold of their tech support in Germany.
You can probably forget any warranty claim in the next year or two!
flag MattyFive
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 23:28 Quote
Also this looks to be the 2016 frame? after all the warranty issues I would bet they had on that little cock up you'd like to think they'd want to avoid that for the 2018 frame

 


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