Onyx Vesper Hub Problems

Author Message
flag nicktapias
Posted: Jul 6, 2021 at 14:44 Quote
I recenty had an issue with my Onyx Vesper that was found to be a warranty issue (the hub shell cracked after ~1 year of use), has anybody had any experience with their warranty process on hub replacements? I have called them and emailed multiple times to try to get an ETA after shipping the entire wheel, but it seems they are a very small operation with limited resources. In my prior experience they have been quick to assist when the free hub bearing disintegrated and messed up the spacer ring and endcap (new driver body and endcap sent free of charge).
flag BryanBobo
Posted: Jul 6, 2021 at 16:15 Quote
nicktapias wrote:
I recenty had an issue with my Onyx Vesper that was found to be a warranty issue (the hub shell cracked after ~1 year of use), has anybody had any experience with their warranty process on hub replacements? I have called them and emailed multiple times to try to get an ETA after shipping the entire wheel, but it seems they are a very small operation with limited resources. In my prior experience they have been quick to assist when the free hub bearing disintegrated and messed up the spacer ring and endcap (new driver body and endcap sent free of charge).

I can’t speak specifically to their warranty but I emailed them with a technical question on Friday and got a detailed response today.
flag nicktapias
Posted: Jul 13, 2021 at 10:28 Quote
the rebuilt wheel with the warranty hub is returning today.
Ship to Onyx June 21
received at Onyx June 28
ship back July 8
delivered to me July 13
All fixed ~3 weeks, not including the back-and-forth discussion and live phone call disassembly of the hub with Onyx to finally figure out the hub shell had cracked. Not bad.
flag BryanBobo
Posted: Jul 14, 2021 at 3:56 Quote
nicktapias wrote:
the rebuilt wheel with the warranty hub is returning today.
Ship to Onyx June 21
received at Onyx June 28
ship back July 8
delivered to me July 13
All fixed ~3 weeks, not including the back-and-forth discussion and live phone call disassembly of the hub with Onyx to finally figure out the hub shell had cracked. Not bad.

Did you say before you got the entire wheel warrantied or just the hub? If entire wheel, how did that work exactly since Onyx doesn’t supply the wheel. I’m worried I have a warranty issue with my hub but I’ll still have to shell out a few hundred bucks to have the brand new wheel itself re-laced which is beyond frustrating given how much I already spent.
flag nicktapias
Posted: Jul 14, 2021 at 9:50 Quote
Onyx replaced the hub under warranty with the newest design (I had an original loose endcap design) and but rebuilt my wheel free of charge on my WAO rim. They also covered shipping both ways.
flag monsieurgage
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 2, 2021 at 19:28 Quote
I bought a pair of WR1 rims to Onyx Vesper hubs. I rode the system 10-15 times before I took the bike in. 10th ride was probably the first time the sprag clutch slipped and I thought it was just me. Another 6 more slips and by the 15th ride I took them in.

The hubs were completely rusted and bearings needed replacing. For a "premium" hub that costs this much is horrendous performance and durability.

I submitted a warranty claim and Onyx told the shop to rebuild then and that the issue looked like I used a pressure washer.

1) Sure I hose down the bike but on shower mode.

2) I live in the PNW, so its wet. Sorry stuff gets wet and dirty and should be able to handle it.

3) I have had the classic hubs and they are amazing 4 years running! Onyx customer service has also been amazing before.

4) There are known issues with the hubs and I can't understand Onyx not reaching out a little more to satisfy a repeat (times 3!) customer with a new product.

I am disappointed in Onyx to say the least and do not know whether to buy another classic hub or buy the new Tarrin Mugen silent hub? My current plan is to rebuild them and be meticulous not to wash the bike at all and see if the problem repeats but the issue of reliability is in my head.

Thoughts?
flag monsieurgage
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 2, 2021 at 19:33 Quote
[PI=https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/edit/?inList[]=21735257&inList[]=21735258&inList[]=21735259][/PI]
flag nicktapias
Posted: Dec 2, 2021 at 19:56 Quote
Wow that looks terrible, I don’t know how that could happen on the aluminum portions of the hub! On the drive ring, clutch and outer ring are steel. I almost wonder if there was a faulty seal or insufficient grease (not the clutch grease) to keep contamination out? Were the hub bearings rusted out too? That would be a sure sign of pressure washing, and if they are good they don’t have any claim. The water would have to get through them first!
flag monsieurgage
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 2, 2021 at 21:48 Quote
The shop told me to replace the drive side bearings at least.

Looks at the service video. The end cap and driver are held by friction and a little grease is supposed to stop water egress. I wish I had seen this before I bought the hubs.

https://onyxrp.com/store/bike-hub-service/onyx-hub-vesper-general-disassembly-and-reassembly-video/

Compare to the classics which thread on. I wonder if this is why the hubs rusted in the PNW.

nicktapias wrote:
Wow that looks terrible, I don’t know how that could happen on the aluminum portions of the hub! On the drive ring, clutch and outer ring are steel. I almost wonder if there was a faulty seal or insufficient grease (not the clutch grease) to keep contamination out? Were the hub bearings rusted out too? That would be a sure sign of pressure washing, and if they are good they don’t have any claim. The water would have to get through them first!
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Dec 3, 2021 at 4:17 Quote
Onyx suck, my old classics also seized to the axle due to corrosion, the sprag clutch became rubber band feeling after a few months, the rear hub weighed more than my front and rear carbon Ti hubs in total, the anodizing is really unsaturated etc etc. People raved about Onyx hubs and DT 511 rims at the time so I put the two together and ended up with a pair of boat anchors that had unreliable hubs and alloy rims that go out of true after a few months. Switched to Carbon Ti hubs and carbon rims and I'm more than happy to sacrifice instant engagement and silence for a wheel set that weighs nearly 700 grams less and stays true after over a year without a hint of hub reliability issues and better spinning bearings. Funny that, the 'weight weenie' wheels set is a shit load more durable, reliable and stays true... I take what a lot of people say on here with a pinch of salt, a lot of stuff often raved about I find to be total overpriced junk.

What is good about Onyx is the concept, unfortunately the execution is shit.
flag privateer-wheels
Posted: Dec 3, 2021 at 9:20 Quote
monsieurgage wrote:
The shop told me to replace the drive side bearings at least.

Looks at the service video. The end cap and driver are held by friction and a little grease is supposed to stop water egress. I wish I had seen this before I bought the hubs.

https://onyxrp.com/store/bike-hub-service/onyx-hub-vesper-general-disassembly-and-reassembly-video/

Compare to the classics which thread on. I wonder if this is why the hubs rusted in the PNW.

nicktapias wrote:
Wow that looks terrible, I don’t know how that could happen on the aluminum portions of the hub! On the drive ring, clutch and outer ring are steel. I almost wonder if there was a faulty seal or insufficient grease (not the clutch grease) to keep contamination out? Were the hub bearings rusted out too? That would be a sure sign of pressure washing, and if they are good they don’t have any claim. The water would have to get through them first!

Most hubs - DT Swiss, Hope, I9 - endcaps and drivers are only held on by friction.

Onyx Classic USED TO BE threaded, but now are friction.

This should not be the reason for the ingress of water, but I certainly preferred threaded myself because they were easier to adjust the preload on. Onyx tells me the underhead axles are stronger, however.

I have build many Onyx hubs, though many more Classic hubs as I prefer them to the Vespers, but I have never seen water ingress like that. Typically, you can crack open an Onyx hub a year or two into its life and it will still look like new - that has been my experience anyways.

This doesn't look normal.
flag monsieurgage
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 3, 2021 at 20:18 Quote
That's good to know about the Onyx Classics. I have the old threaded style ones and they are bomb proof. The response from Onyx was less than stellar and I am now conflicted because I like the old Classics so much but the Vespers are leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Have you seen the new Tairin Mugen silent hub design? What are your thoughts? I am pretty dedicated to a silent instant engagement hub.

https://www.tairinwheels.ca/silent-hub-technicals

privateer-wheels wrote:
monsieurgage wrote:
The shop told me to replace the drive side bearings at least.

Looks at the service video. The end cap and driver are held by friction and a little grease is supposed to stop water egress. I wish I had seen this before I bought the hubs.

https://onyxrp.com/store/bike-hub-service/onyx-hub-vesper-general-disassembly-and-reassembly-video/

Compare to the classics which thread on. I wonder if this is why the hubs rusted in the PNW.

nicktapias wrote:
Wow that looks terrible, I don’t know how that could happen on the aluminum portions of the hub! On the drive ring, clutch and outer ring are steel. I almost wonder if there was a faulty seal or insufficient grease (not the clutch grease) to keep contamination out? Were the hub bearings rusted out too? That would be a sure sign of pressure washing, and if they are good they don’t have any claim. The water would have to get through them first!

Most hubs - DT Swiss, Hope, I9 - endcaps and drivers are only held on by friction.

Onyx Classic USED TO BE threaded, but now are friction.

This should not be the reason for the ingress of water, but I certainly preferred threaded myself because they were easier to adjust the preload on. Onyx tells me the underhead axles are stronger, however.

I have build many Onyx hubs, though many more Classic hubs as I prefer them to the Vespers, but I have never seen water ingress like that. Typically, you can crack open an Onyx hub a year or two into its life and it will still look like new - that has been my experience anyways.

This doesn't look normal.
flag privateer-wheels
Posted: Dec 3, 2021 at 22:14 Quote
monsieurgage wrote:
That's good to know about the Onyx Classics. I have the old threaded style ones and they are bomb proof. The response from Onyx was less than stellar and I am now conflicted because I like the old Classics so much but the Vespers are leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Have you seen the new Tairin Mugen silent hub design? What are your thoughts? I am pretty dedicated to a silent instant engagement hub.


The Mugen isn't actually out yet. I do know that it does not run on a clutch now, unlike the earlier version that was designed around a roller clutch. It's now on an interference mechanism. I was actually supposed to have a video chat with Tairin last weekend to get a better look, but we didn't end up connecting. I can tell you that despite Tairin's very modest website and social media presence though, their product is really good, and the owner does a lot engineering work for other hub and wheel companies - he's a pretty smart fella. I have no doubt when they release the Mugen, it will be dialed.

Box is one other, who has threatened the release of a hub on a roller clutch for a couple years now. Roller clutches feel a little more crisp, or on/off than the sprag clutch in Onyx. I rode the original True Precision hubs for a little while and they were really nice. The Box hubs will also be priced a bit lower than Onyx too, if they ever do come out.

What have you done/will you do with your vesper?
flag BryanBobo
Posted: Dec 4, 2021 at 4:57 Quote
monsieurgage wrote:
I bought a pair of WR1 rims to Onyx Vesper hubs. I rode the system 10-15 times before I took the bike in. 10th ride was probably the first time the sprag clutch slipped and I thought it was just me. Another 6 more slips and by the 15th ride I took them in.

The hubs were completely rusted and bearings needed replacing. For a "premium" hub that costs this much is horrendous performance and durability.

I submitted a warranty claim and Onyx told the shop to rebuild then and that the issue looked like I used a pressure washer.

1) Sure I hose down the bike but on shower mode.

2) I live in the PNW, so its wet. Sorry stuff gets wet and dirty and should be able to handle it.

3) I have had the classic hubs and they are amazing 4 years running! Onyx customer service has also been amazing before.

4) There are known issues with the hubs and I can't understand Onyx not reaching out a little more to satisfy a repeat (times 3!) customer with a new product.

I am disappointed in Onyx to say the least and do not know whether to buy another classic hub or buy the new Tarrin Mugen silent hub? My current plan is to rebuild them and be meticulous not to wash the bike at all and see if the problem repeats but the issue of reliability is in my head.

Thoughts?

I recently ordered a new wheelset and immediately had issues with the hub catching during compressions. Only way it didn’t happen was if I loosened the preload so much that there was play in the hub. Either way, I took the hub apart and saw this. I don’t know that this was causing it. But I sent this to Onyx and within a week or so had a whole new hub assembly shipped to me for free. Been riding it ever since with no issues. I heard someone else having a very similar issue around the same time as we with the same ultimate solution. Made me think maybe they had some know QC issue or something because they seemed to know immediately when I sent the photos and description what was causing the problem, even though (other than the corrosion) nothing was super obvious to me.

photo
photo
flag monsieurgage
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 4, 2021 at 11:07 Quote
I spoke to the owner/engineer at Tairin as he was in my local bike shop in North Vancouver. Really nice guy, he pulled the hub apart in from of me and showed me how to service it with a quarter. Now because this was pre-Vesper problem I was only half paying attention and didn't commit much to memory.

Point being, the Tairin guy seems nice and he is making what looks like a concerted effort from design and testing. I mean they delayed product release by a year because of roller clutch wear instead of shipping out product with known/foreseeable issues.

I will rebuild the Vesper hubs and follow the directions from Onyx. I feel like that at least gives these hubs a fair shake. I will monitor the hub and document hub integrity with a running excel sheet and photos. Methodology will be to let the bike dry post ride then open and check for corrosion pre-ride to avoid accidental exposure. Opening the hub will occur in a warm, dry, standard humidity environment (for the PNW home) indoors. If the problem occurs again, within a similar timeline, I will ask that Onyx warranties the hub. My hope would be that they send me Classic hub if I ship out to them the Vesper.

That, to me at least, seems fair. Following the care instruction a known fault with the product presented itself. The customer asked for an exchange of equal value and paid shipping. The company preserves integrity and some reputation while the customer loses time and money (shipping and drive side bearing cost).

Following that I am also ordering a Mugen from the shop as they are slightly over half the price of Onyx. With Onyx moving away from the tried and true Classic design (the one with the thread on axle-driver) and a host of Vesper problems cropping up I need an alternative.



privateer-wheels wrote:
monsieurgage wrote:
That's good to know about the Onyx Classics. I have the old threaded style ones and they are bomb proof. The response from Onyx was less than stellar and I am now conflicted because I like the old Classics so much but the Vespers are leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Have you seen the new Tairin Mugen silent hub design? What are your thoughts? I am pretty dedicated to a silent instant engagement hub.


The Mugen isn't actually out yet. I do know that it does not run on a clutch now, unlike the earlier version that was designed around a roller clutch. It's now on an interference mechanism. I was actually supposed to have a video chat with Tairin last weekend to get a better look, but we didn't end up connecting. I can tell you that despite Tairin's very modest website and social media presence though, their product is really good, and the owner does a lot engineering work for other hub and wheel companies - he's a pretty smart fella. I have no doubt when they release the Mugen, it will be dialed.

Box is one other, who has threatened the release of a hub on a roller clutch for a couple years now. Roller clutches feel a little more crisp, or on/off than the sprag clutch in Onyx. I rode the original True Precision hubs for a little while and they were really nice. The Box hubs will also be priced a bit lower than Onyx too, if they ever do come out.

What have you done/will you do with your vesper?

 


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