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Roadies vs. Cars... Who's the real victim...

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Roadies vs. Cars... Who's the real victim...
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flag jimmygster
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 10:37 Quote
robloveshiskona wrote:
jimmygster wrote:
sie7e wrote:
i have to make a 25 minutes every day to go to college, the route i take is also chose by many many roadies who also chose to ocupate the whole lane eventhoug the have like an extra side road for them, its not only that but they start to rid in sig sag when it really gets steep, so if anyone is trying to pass a car ist difficult and dagerous cuz they dont care about cars and decide to go right in the middle, i've had to brake suddedly a few times cuz them dont feel like moving to the side of the road and let the cars pass by.

Again, if you give it some thought, what you are suggesting is that cyclists intentionally risk their lives. Do you really think we don't care about a one ton vehicle we can't see coming up behind us?
well it does seem that way lol really, you should be aware of your surroundings, especialy if you cant tell there's a car be hind you Confused

I ride on the road full time for 30 years, and now I have a guy who doesn't telling me I should be aware of my surroundings, as if that never occurred to me?

Maybe it seems that way to you, but seriously? Do you really think cyclists riding on roads don't understand that it's a bad thing to get hit by a car from behind? I'm going to risk my life for the pleasure of pissing off a driver who may or may not be there? That's your perception, what you choose to believe, it's unfair, and bears little relation to reality. That defies all logic, and adds nothing to the debate. Again it's a case of seeing a very small percentage of careless riders and extrapolating that to include the majority who are sensible.

It would be like me assuming all mountain bikers are roadie haters who are unable to use reason, when it's just a few that try to make the others look like idiots and fools.
flag photoguy9
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 10:46 Quote
asuna wrote:
I am fearful everyday I go out. I have almost been hit 2-3 times this year. Am I going to stop? NO! Am I going to be scared and respect the cars on he road every time I go out? YES!

I treat the road like I am a guest on it. Its not intended for bikes so I cant expect the main reason it was intended for to be happy with me on it. With that said use your own discretion and hold a line as close to the side as you can.

Don't give the sport a bad name. Be passionate about it and try and get people enthused about it.

I would give anything for a bike lane here in town. all we have is the side of the road that is beaten from the winter. . . . . .

I'm still grateful everyday.

All the roads around here, the shoulders still have sand and salt and crap from winter (it's now august) And there's been a few times where my bike has started to get "loose" because of it. (this is at about 40km/h beside a 6 lane road) and I'm running 2" tires! I don't know how anyone on a road bike would be able to survive this.
flag asuna
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 10:55 Quote
photoguy9 wrote:
asuna wrote:
I am fearful everyday I go out. I have almost been hit 2-3 times this year. Am I going to stop? NO! Am I going to be scared and respect the cars on he road every time I go out? YES!

I treat the road like I am a guest on it. Its not intended for bikes so I cant expect the main reason it was intended for to be happy with me on it. With that said use your own discretion and hold a line as close to the side as you can.

Don't give the sport a bad name. Be passionate about it and try and get people enthused about it.

I would give anything for a bike lane here in town. all we have is the side of the road that is beaten from the winter. . . . . .

I'm still grateful everyday.

All the roads around here, the shoulders still have sand and salt and crap from winter (it's now august) And there's been a few times where my bike has started to get "loose" because of it. (this is at about 40km/h beside a 6 lane road) and I'm running 2" tires! I don't know how anyone on a road bike would be able to survive this.

Ahh the loose bike and the locked it feet. Now that makes you think. I hit the highway 6 foot break down lane is nice.
flag robloveshiskona
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 10:59 Quote
jimmygster wrote:
robloveshiskona wrote:
jimmygster wrote:


Again, if you give it some thought, what you are suggesting is that cyclists intentionally risk their lives. Do you really think we don't care about a one ton vehicle we can't see coming up behind us?
well it does seem that way lol really, you should be aware of your surroundings, especialy if you cant tell there's a car be hind you Confused

I ride on the road full time for 30 years, and now I have a guy who doesn't telling me I should be aware of my surroundings, as if that never occurred to me?

Maybe it seems that way to you, but seriously? Do you really think cyclists riding on roads don't understand that it's a bad thing to get hit by a car from behind? I'm going to risk my life for the pleasure of pissing off a driver who may or may not be there? That's your perception, what you choose to believe, it's unfair, and bears little relation to reality. That defies all logic, and adds nothing to the debate. Again it's a case of seeing a very small percentage of careless riders and extrapolating that to include the majority who are sensible.

It would be like me assuming all mountain bikers are roadie haters who are unable to use reason, when it's just a few that try to make the others look like idiots and fools.
this is just MY opinion, & form MY personal experience, & i have drawn to this conclusion because of what I have seen.
just yesterday i was cycling behind 2 roadies, cycling 2 wide, who didn't even notice I was there until I said some thing as I wanted to overtake, & even then they just said 'go on then' not moving in at all, ive also had one almost rear end me because I stopped at a zebra crossing & they obvious didn't intend to, even tho there were people on it.
flag frolosophy
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 12:36 Quote
i've had this same discussion with a local police officer (who happens to be an avid cyclist). around here there are no bike lanes downtown (and being an old city, the downtown roads are very cramped) so many cyclists take to the sidewalks - which is illegal here, and many places elsewhere. but it's not as if cyclists get much room as it is. on streets without bike lanes, cyclists are forced into a space only about 2ft wide which, in many places, traps them between driving cars and parked cars (leaving them easy targets for the old driver-opening-door-into-cyclist routine). i do obey the rules of the road (as do most serious cyclists) and have close calls with drivers not paying attention on a fairly routine basis.

so who is the real victim? both are, but i would say the cyclist more so. not in the sense of cyclist/driver relations, but rather neglect from city planners, and municipal governments. when cyclists are recognized as a different class of vehicle and given their own lanes everywhere and still disobey the rules of the road, then i won't have the same view. but cyclists are being pushed onto the road with larger, faster, motorized vehicles, where they don't belong, and are being killed/injured constantly by unaware drivers. when cities put more of a focus on cycling infrastructure, and cyclists get out of car lanes, cyclist/car collisions will be drastically reduced.

i know that many cyclists disobey the rules of the road/ride dangerously, but so do many drivers. however, the bicycle is the most popular mode of transportation in the world and there is no aptitude test required for you to be able to ride on public roads along with cars (which require months if not years of testing to do the same). it's very easy for cyclists to ignore the rules of the road (a lot easier than cars) if they don't know them for one, and if they aren't enforced (which they usually aren't) for another.
flag asuna
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 14:10 Quote
I cant see how the automobile drivers and such can be a victim. When a cyclist gets hit its one of 3 things. Life changing, life ending, or scaring them so bad they give up on it.

To answer this question as simply as possible you need to look at 2 things here.

1. When a cyclist is "hogging" the road then yes the "auto" driver is the victim of a cyclist who does not respect the open road.

2. When a cyclist is holding a far right line as safe as possible for themselves. And they are harassed with water bottles and cigarette butts thrown at them. When they are honked at and ridiculed. Then they are the victim.

For me the differences are far to much so. When your a victim on a bike your life is in jeopardy.

In a car, you cant be the victim.

Victim - a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.

That is all.
flag frolosophy
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 14:17 Quote
bigquotes And they are harassed with water bottles and cigarette butts thrown at them. When they are honked at and ridiculed. Then they are the victim.

oh yeah, i forgot about that one... i can't count the amount of crap thats been thrown at me from cars while cycling.
flag timrippeth
FL
Posted: Aug 1, 2009 at 14:43 Quote
I have been commuting to my job 4-5 days a week, for the last few years, and have had all kinds of things thrown at me, drivers who go out of their way to run me off the road, and have been hit a couple of times. The last one was a hit and run while I was riding in a bike lane. A large number of drivers on the road, have absolutely no regard for putting my life in danger, or creating a dangerous situation that could result in me being injured or worse. I often wonder what they would do if they killed a rider while being a jerk for a laugh.
If I don't ride aggressive, with my head on a swivel keeping my eyes on everything around me, I would probably be dead. I have a lot of confidence in my bike handling abilities, but the cars around me are always the variable that I can't control. It seems that there will never be a mutual respect between cyclists and drivers, and I am not quite sure why. It takes less effort to be respectful and show common courtesy than it does to battle and fight over the space on the road.
It is always a blessing when I get to work safely, and home again safely. It is definitely an adrenaline rush to ride across my city everyday, and at times it is more dangerous than any of the dh trails I ride.
flag vanryder
Posted: Aug 12, 2009 at 14:45 Quote
Totally agree, rule #1 is to keep yourself safe, which CAN be done through following basic rules of the road. I am one of the "road hogs" who bike down the middle of the right hand lane; leaglly, I have to bike on the road, not the sidewalk. I stop, give right-of-ways, just like a car. However, when I'm on the road hugging the sidewalk, too many rushing drivers stay in the same lane to pass me (not respectful), coming waaay too close to hitting me (I was clipped with a mirror not too long ago). So, I follow the rules of the road, respect the damage cars could do to me, but at the same time, drivers need to realize their obligations as well. Obviously, bike vs. car, it's a no brainer, and any rational cyclist should realize it's a battle they will end up losing. In theory, there are many rules that drivers are oblivious to, and many feel that they literally "own" the road we use as well, but we all have the right to their use.

To all the enraged drivers, you should be the most outspoken supporters of bike lane/path construction in your cities/towns, as every lane built gets more riders out of your lanes, and the roads can return to cars.

Side-note: I live in Vancouver, a city blessed with so many awesome bike trails/lanes to commute on, which i use daily. I try to stay off major raods, as these paths are way more scenic and pleasurable to ride on. My only beef with these bike paths (as opposed to lanes which run alongside roads) is that there are no rules for their use, as opposed to roads. Everyday, I am dodging some gray-hair walking her poodle down the middle of a bike-only path, or those who treat it as a walking path. IT IS NOT. It is designed for bicycle use only, and I have frequently gotten angry reactions when I am forced to slam on the brakes and screech to a halt. They get startled and angry, leaving my ony response as "You wouldn't walk down the middle of the street and expect cars to go around you, would you?" Really now. Also, the toursit-sight-seeing-cyclists: remember that just because you want to ride 5 in a row with your family/friends, these paths are used by people who are commuting, not joyriding. I got no problem with you being on the path of course, but stay single file so commuters can pass, and please, LOOK before you vear out into the rest of the lane. I'm out, feels great to rant to my computer monitor
flag orangefreak5
Posted: Aug 12, 2009 at 19:52 Quote
vanryder wrote:

To all the enraged drivers, you should be the most outspoken supporters of bike lane/path construction in your cities/towns, as every lane built gets more riders out of your lanes, and the roads can return to cars.


smartest thing I have heard in this thread
flag thebranch
Posted: Aug 12, 2009 at 20:18 Quote
singlespeedtoday wrote:
Road riders break traffic laws because most the laws aren't as necessary to follow on a bike as in a car. On a bike you have more control and more space. It's kinda like walking across a road. You can walk down the sidewalk for 20 feet go through a cross walk and walk back but nobody does that. They just walk across the road when it's safe. Bikes should follow basic responsibilities of the road but not the same as a car and drivers need to realize that.

actually if they ride next to cars or are in the car lanes that have to follow the exact rules and laws cars have to obey
flag thebranch
Posted: Aug 12, 2009 at 20:21 Quote
JokerMachine wrote:
Roadies that expect that drivers will care about them are stupid. If you blindly ride down the road and say something like "the law says I can do this", yeah, that's all fine and good, but the drunk driver in the Dodge Ram isn't going to give a shit, he'll still turn you into a wet spot on the pavement...

This is why I look both ways before crossing the road even at traffic lights... you never know when some jackass racer-wannabe will try to squeeze through the yellow light and rear end someone at 45 mph.

couldnt agree more
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