E*Thirteen reliabilty issues.

PB Forum :: YT Industries
E*Thirteen reliabilty issues.
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flag notnew
Posted: May 21, 2021 at 15:34 Quote
light wolf wheel builder in germany. ships all over
flag Mfacey
Posted: May 22, 2021 at 1:39 Quote
pntfive wrote:
My e*Thirteen TRS+ wheels are failing with cracks appearing around the spoke holes. The cracks are especially apparent on the drive side of the rear wheel.

I'm unsure whether I should try to get a replacement rim to rebuild the TRS+ wheel, build a new rim (DT Swiss EX511, DT Swiss FR560 or Stans Flow EX3) onto the 28 hole e*Thirteen hub or start from scratch with DT Swiss 350 or Hope Pro 4 hubs and one of the rims mentioned above.

My e*Thirteen TRS+ hub is OK. It is starting to get a bit rough and could possibly use new bearings. I've kept the pawls clean and lubricated over the years, so I've had no problems with engagement.

Parts are very difficult to find these days. Most bike stores seem to be lacking hubs and rims.

I had exactly the same problem. E13 support was really good in replacing it. There’s a bit of an investment in getting it laced and tensioned by a wheel builder. I’ve kept my e13 wheelset as a spare set. Bearings are still really smooth on mine and the e13 rear wheel is now hand built and tensioned so it should hold up a bit longer. I quite like the engagement on the TRS hubs and they seem to be generally well built.
I replaced the e13 set for DT XM 481 rims with i9 Hydra hubs which is another step up.
flag holytrails
Posted: May 22, 2021 at 3:42 Quote
Mfacey wrote:
pntfive wrote:
My e*Thirteen TRS+ wheels are failing with cracks appearing around the spoke holes. The cracks are especially apparent on the drive side of the rear wheel.

I'm unsure whether I should try to get a replacement rim to rebuild the TRS+ wheel, build a new rim (DT Swiss EX511, DT Swiss FR560 or Stans Flow EX3) onto the 28 hole e*Thirteen hub or start from scratch with DT Swiss 350 or Hope Pro 4 hubs and one of the rims mentioned above.

My e*Thirteen TRS+ hub is OK. It is starting to get a bit rough and could possibly use new bearings. I've kept the pawls clean and lubricated over the years, so I've had no problems with engagement.

Parts are very difficult to find these days. Most bike stores seem to be lacking hubs and rims.

I had exactly the same problem. E13 support was really good in replacing it. There’s a bit of an investment in getting it laced and tensioned by a wheel builder. I’ve kept my e13 wheelset as a spare set. Bearings are still really smooth on mine and the e13 rear wheel is now hand built and tensioned so it should hold up a bit longer. I quite like the engagement on the TRS hubs and they seem to be generally well built.
I replaced the e13 set for DT XM 481 rims with i9 Hydra hubs which is another step up.

Sounds like the wheel builder over-tensioned the spokes during the build process. And over time with braking the disc brake side gets even greater tension applied from the repeated torque forces under braking, hence the more profound cracking on that side. Few rims can withstand over-tensioning and is why manufacturers state the recommended highest kgf (kilograms of force) for the buliders' to follow. If the builders for their own wheels are not following specs, that's even worse. It makes you wonder what else are their own builders and mechanics are not following. Or it could be poor rim material not able to withstand the forces over time as well. In any case, cracking like that should not happen.

If the rims had that amount of force enough to crack and start to pull the nipples through the spoke holes, the force on the hubs is equally great and possibly beyond what it should withstand. If re-laced and tensioned again, the spoke flanges could fail after already being subjected to extreme forces from over-tensioned spokes and brake torque forces. It may be wise to just build with all new hubs and not risk failure and having to pay for the builds and new spokes and nipples on already possibly compromised hubs.

I personally prefer I9 hubs as their flanges have nicely rounded spoke holes (vs square edges on lesser quality hubs) for less cutting into the J-bend of the spokes, better seating at the spoke/hub flange interface, and tighter tolerances making for more evenly tensioned spokes. Bladed spokes are much easier to build accurately to spec as the builder can hold them from twisting during the tensioning process unlike rounded spokes that are prone to twisting. There's nothing like the ride and confidence boost of a professionally hand built wheel with quality spokes and hubs.
flag R-M-R
Posted: May 22, 2021 at 14:51 Quote
holytrails,

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but note that pntfive said the cracks are on the drive side.

Disc side spokes can experience very high loads from braking, and I've seen more spoke and nipple failures on disc sides than drive sides.

Drive sides can be vulnerable when the hub has minimal flange offset on the drive side, resulting in poor spoke bracing angle (the lateral angle of the spokes, which enables the wheel to take side loads). Lateral loads produce much higher stresses when the bracing angle is poor.

It's true that round spokes can be subject to wind-up. Relieving wind-up is a standard part of wheel building, though, and even if the builder doesn't do it, wind-up is released in the first few minutes of riding when a lateral load reduces tension enough to allow the spokes to unwind.

On mountain bikes, maximum spoke tension during riding is a lot higher than static tension. Unless a builder used far too much tension, a little variation from recommended tension during the build shouldn't cause rim cracking. Cracking is most often due to:

• Rim design: Simply not strong enough.
• Loads: The rider may be stressing the equipment beyond its intended use.
• Spokes: Thick spokes (ex. 2 mm mid-sections) are stiffer than thin spokes (ex. 1.5 mm). This does build a stiffer wheel, but also creates greater stresses on everything connected to the spoke. A better solution, for the same weight, would be a higher spoke count with thinner spokes.
• Assembly:
-- Not using nipple washers on builds where they're recommended.
-- Incorrect rim orientation. Most spoke holes are drilled with alternating angles, such that the holes point toward the hub flanges. Lacing it backwards is clearly not ideal.
flag pntfive
O+
Posted: May 23, 2021 at 9:40 Quote
My e*Thirteen wheel came pre-built by e*Thirteen, so I'm assuming the spoke tension was done at their factory. They stayed quite true over the time I had them, until the rim started to crack.

I ride North Vancouver, Squamish, Whistler, Pemberton, etc. I'm not a great rider, but I do enjoy the blacks and double blacks. I've ridden all the same trails many times on my older wheels without this sort of rim cracking.

I wonder if my next rims should have eyelets to help avoid this sort of rim failure.

Does anyone know if e*Thirteen had thickened the aluminium next the spoke holes in their rims recently?
flag holytrails
Posted: May 24, 2021 at 4:42 Quote
My friend's crank are suddenly came off. He received notice from e13 of arms coming off and was regularly torquing to spec and still the arm just flat out dropped off. The preload cap is gone and has deep threads into the bb spindle. Thank God he wasn't bombing downhill or catching air. Not good
flag scoobiemario
Posted: Jun 12, 2021 at 20:09 Quote
pntfive wrote:
My e*Thirteen TRS+ wheels are failing with cracks appearing around the spoke holes. The cracks are especially apparent on the drive side of the rear wheel.

I'm unsure whether I should try to get a replacement rim to rebuild the TRS+ wheel, build a new rim (DT Swiss EX511, DT Swiss FR560 or Stans Flow EX3) onto the 28 hole e*Thirteen hub or start from scratch with DT Swiss 350 or Hope Pro 4 hubs and one of the rims mentioned above.

My e*Thirteen TRS+ hub is OK. It is starting to get a bit rough and could possibly use new bearings. I've kept the pawls clean and lubricated over the years, so I've had no problems with engagement.

Parts are very difficult to find these days. Most bike stores seem to be lacking hubs and rims.

pntfive wrote:
My e*Thirteen wheel came pre-built by e*Thirteen, so I'm assuming the spoke tension was done at their factory. They stayed quite true over the time I had them, until the rim started to crack.

I ride North Vancouver, Squamish, Whistler, Pemberton, etc. I'm not a great rider, but I do enjoy the blacks and double blacks. I've ridden all the same trails many times on my older wheels without this sort of rim cracking.

I wonder if my next rims should have eyelets to help avoid this sort of rim failure.

Does anyone know if e*Thirteen had thickened the aluminium next the spoke holes in their rims recently?

I had the same issues. Got the Jeffsy Pro Race in 2019. TRSr carbon wheels. Since I’ve had bad experience with TRs + wheels on 2017 Jeffsy, I checked the new wheels for spoke tension when new. They were up to specs recommended by e13. I set myself reminder to check the spoke tension every month. Which I did. And STILL!!! I got the cracking around the spoke holes. Wheel was replaced under warranty after around March/April 2020. I continued to check spoke tension monthly. Any guess what. Sept/oct 2020 same wheel started getting spoke holes bulging and cracking again. Replaced under warranty again. Sold them. Bought set of I9 enduro 305. And I still check the spoke tension monthly. PTSD from e13 I guess. And i9’s are BULLETPROOF! In 9 months and 900 miles I haven’t had to adjust even one spoke! The6 are at the same tension as new. And still perfectly true.
And just to give you an idea. I’m 210 lbs. around. Ride in eastern Va. I do jumps. Drops (up to 12 ft). Whips from time to time. I have fun. So it’s not like I’m very tough on wheels. But also I’m not just staying on the ground.
And FYI. I weighted both sets of wheels.
I9 305 29 inch 30mm are 1641 gr
E13 TRSr 29 inch 27 mm carbon were 1587gr
Totally negligible difference.

That was front wheel. And the rear wheel was replaced in 2020 because I had some play and discovered that bearing was loos3 in hub!!! Like hub was machined too large and while spinning the bearing, outer race was spinning in the hub!

Also. In 2020 arm snapped on the carbon TRSr crank on 3 ft drop! And the retaining bolt snapped on LG1 carbon replacement causing the crank arm to become loose. After 6 months.... just riding regular trail. Not even rough

@pntfive. If you’re building new wheels. Use new hubs. Save money on labor while replacing the hub later. I don’t believe it will last. On my first Jeffsy I found cracked pawls. Easy to replace. But. I have no trust in e13 at all....
flag pntfive
O+
Posted: Jun 21, 2021 at 8:34 Quote
I ended up building up on a DT Swiss EX511 rim. The EX511 rims are well reviewed, and it seemed like it was worth the money to have a reliable wheel. So far, so good.
flag scoobiemario
Posted: Jun 26, 2021 at 11:18 Quote
pntfive wrote:
I ended up building up on a DT Swiss EX511 rim. The EX511 rims are well reviewed, and it seemed like it was worth the money to have a reliable wheel. So far, so good.
Cool. Good choice. I’ve had a EX511 laser up to e13 hub on first Jeffsy. It was great. Very good rims
flag s100
O+
Posted: Jun 27, 2021 at 16:27 Quote
I had a YT Tues arrive two days after I ordered it this January. Finally the bike parks opened and today was my sixth day. Walking my bike to the village for the first run and noticed the wheel wasn’t true. Pretty sure it was when I rode it yesterday. Checked spoke tension and found the bad spot snd it looks like a big fold in the carbon, like they didn’t get enough resin flowed into the spot and the carbon fibers are ballooning out on the brake side of the front wheel right at a spoke nipple. I have only ridden WeAreOne for the last couple years so E13 dying after six days of riding greens and blues with my 66yr old father (who is riding my enduro with the WR1’s) is surprising.
flag s100
O+
Posted: Jul 18, 2021 at 13:02 Quote
Now my second wheel broke in the same way. The replacement (just the rim) for the first came Friday. I replaced it with a WeAreOne and paid to have it rebuilt while I wait, so now I’m renting today while my e13 wheel sits broken for a second time - first weekend out. I had to ride my enduro at the park the past couple weeks, now a rental today. This isn’t cool e13. It is costing me too much and your warranty is taking weeks to get me just a part of a wheel returned.
flag Mfacey
Posted: Jul 23, 2021 at 23:27 Quote
Have it replaced and rebuilt and sell the set!

I've replaced my e13 wheelset with a custom built DT/I9 set and haven't looked back. The e13 set is hanging in my garage as a spare.
flag s100
O+
Posted: Jul 24, 2021 at 2:15 Quote
Nothing from e13 yet so I’ll just get another WeAreOne wheelset from down the road. I have a faction wheelset (29”) and two unions (29&27.5) without even needing to true the wheels in 3000kms of riding. Just sucks that almost half our park season is over and I haven’t had any time on my DH bike and WeAreOne has sold out production so far in advance that it isn’t going to happen overnight.
flag pntfive
O+
Posted: Jul 24, 2021 at 9:39 Quote
@Jvisscher, I was having trouble getting a We Are One Union wheelset after my e*Thirteen rim failed as well. I ended up going with a DT Swiss EX511 aluminium rim to keep me going through the rest of the season. So far, so good. The rim is still straight and round after riding around a bunch of black trails in North Vancouver and Squamish. If you will be riding mostly in the bike park, perhaps a DT Swiss FR560 would work well for that situation. The DT Swiss rims aren't as nice at the We Are One rims, but they should be tough enough for you to see out the rest of the season on your bike and not worry about your wheels.
flag scoobiemario
Posted: Jul 27, 2021 at 10:35 Quote
Yeah, e13 sucks, I've lost plenty of time dealing with their wheels. EX511 build with DT240 or I'9 hydra, or I9 Enduro 305 are my recommendations

 


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