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Reasons to not go to AXS

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flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 11:50 Quote
seraph wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
seraph wrote:


I'm not making excuses for people who can't shift. I'm just saying that there is always the possibility of user error when shifting anything, but with AXS it eliminates 99% of that happening.

I've made my points, based on personal experience with the drivetrain myself, as well as the experiences of my customers who run it. You don't have to use AXS if you don't want to. No one is forcing you.


99% of once in a blue moon ain't much in relation to the cost.,that's the point danzzz is trying to make.
Also I've seen electronics acting up in the most inappropriate moments so...

So you wouldn't pay for 99% shifting accuracy? I would.

I've yet to see AXS components "acting up". I've seen my fair share of Di2 stuff go haywire though.
You got it wrong,
99% of once in a blue moon NOT 99% shifting accuracy, in very simple language, if it happens 1 in let's say a year, that would take a 100 years of riding to miss 100 shifts in total, I can live with that, actually even more than that. I am not totaly convinced that axs won't act up because you didn't experience it, yet. Not enough sampling/testing, how many have you seen 10? 20? 100 in total?
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 12:06 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
seraph wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:


99% of once in a blue moon ain't much in relation to the cost.,that's the point danzzz is trying to make.
Also I've seen electronics acting up in the most inappropriate moments so...

So you wouldn't pay for 99% shifting accuracy? I would.

I've yet to see AXS components "acting up". I've seen my fair share of Di2 stuff go haywire though.
You got it wrong,
99% of once in a blue moon NOT 99% shifting accuracy, in very simple language, if it happens 1 in let's say a year, that would take a 100 years of riding to miss 100 shifts in total, I can live with that, actually even more than that. I am not totaly convinced that axs won't act up because you didn't experience it, yet. Not enough sampling/testing, how many have you seen 10? 20? 100 in total?

Your numbers are based on speculation. My 99% shifting accuracy figure is based on experience with the drivetrain on my bikes, and my customers' experiences with the drivetrain on their bikes.

Don't like it? Don't get it. But the fact is that it works almost flawlessly and makes some pretty big advances compared to standard mechanical drivetrains.
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 12:29 Quote
seraph wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
seraph wrote:


So you wouldn't pay for 99% shifting accuracy? I would.

I've yet to see AXS components "acting up". I've seen my fair share of Di2 stuff go haywire though.
You got it wrong,
99% of once in a blue moon NOT 99% shifting accuracy, in very simple language, if it happens 1 in let's say a year, that would take a 100 years of riding to miss 100 shifts in total, I can live with that, actually even more than that. I am not totaly convinced that axs won't act up because you didn't experience it, yet. Not enough sampling/testing, how many have you seen 10? 20? 100 in total?

Your numbers are based on speculation. My 99% shifting accuracy figure is based on experience with the drivetrain on my bikes, and my customers' experiences with the drivetrain on their bikes.

Don't like it? Don't get it. But the fact is that it works almost flawlessly and makes some pretty big advances compared to standard mechanical drivetrains.
Dude how you determined 99% accuracy on shifting exactly? as opposed to what? This is what you fail to explain,
how many axs systems have you sampled if you don't base your opinion on speculations like me but facts?
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 12:33 Quote
But a well maintened xt, xtr or xx1 drivetrain also performs flawlessly this is the point, it's not like you have to tinker with the high and low screws and change gear cables every ride, mechanical goes for months at a time before needing some fettling if you buy quality components and set it up right. If people are getting ghost shifting ect with mechanical it's either because they don't know how to set it up or are using worn components, my xx1 eagle never ghost shifted once, the cassette and chain lasted over a year and still looked 90% like new. It's almost like you are comparing AXS to some 21 speed Shimano SIS or some shit. AXS is virtually the same as xx1 except the servo motor us movibg the derailleur rather than finger force, everything beyon the motor is the same, and before that is a battery and switch in place of a cable and shifter, now tell me how often do shifters fail ir not index, not very often, and how much does the cable stretch and seize up in a couple months if using quality cables, again not much.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 13:42 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
But a well maintened xt, xtr or xx1 drivetrain also performs flawlessly this is the point, it's not like you have to tinker with the high and low screws and change gear cables every ride, mechanical goes for months at a time before needing some fettling if you buy quality components and set it up right. If people are getting ghost shifting ect with mechanical it's either because they don't know how to set it up or are using worn components, my xx1 eagle never ghost shifted once, the cassette and chain lasted over a year and still looked 90% like new. It's almost like you are comparing AXS to some 21 speed Shimano SIS or some shit. AXS is virtually the same as xx1 except the servo motor us movibg the derailleur rather than finger force, everything beyon the motor is the same, and before that is a battery and switch in place of a cable and shifter, now tell me how often do shifters fail ir not index, not very often, and how much does the cable stretch and seize up in a couple months if using quality cables, again not much.

You're not getting it, man. AXS removes virtually any chance of user error. The human hand is only so accurate.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 13:44 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
seraph wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:

You got it wrong,
99% of once in a blue moon NOT 99% shifting accuracy, in very simple language, if it happens 1 in let's say a year, that would take a 100 years of riding to miss 100 shifts in total, I can live with that, actually even more than that. I am not totaly convinced that axs won't act up because you didn't experience it, yet. Not enough sampling/testing, how many have you seen 10? 20? 100 in total?

Your numbers are based on speculation. My 99% shifting accuracy figure is based on experience with the drivetrain on my bikes, and my customers' experiences with the drivetrain on their bikes.

Don't like it? Don't get it. But the fact is that it works almost flawlessly and makes some pretty big advances compared to standard mechanical drivetrains.
Dude how you determined 99% accuracy on shifting exactly? as opposed to what? This is what you fail to explain,
how many axs systems have you sampled if you don't base your opinion on speculations like me but facts?

I'm saying that 99% of 100% of shifts are accurate with AXS. I've got AXS on all 3 of my bikes, and I've installed and ridden about 25 different bikes with various AXS setups.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 13:54 Quote
Not to be rude but what kind of people come into your store that can't shift with a regular shifter, on one hand the argument is that AXS has a much lighter shift as you only need to press a button, and yet you claim people will have a tendency to mishift more on a shifter that gives more resistance and tactile feedback? This is like saying you are more likely to hit the wrong analogue button on a traditional phone or car infotainment system than a touchscreen. I'm sure if AXS is so damn easy to press and shift with there is more danger of double shifting on that than there is with a shifter that gives intuitive feedback.... But anyway this whole topic is pointless anyway, no point slagging it off just for the sake of it.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 15:23 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
Not to be rude but what kind of people come into your store that can't shift with a regular shifter, on one hand the argument is that AXS has a much lighter shift as you only need to press a button, and yet you claim people will have a tendency to mishift more on a shifter that gives more resistance and tactile feedback? This is like saying you are more likely to hit the wrong analogue button on a traditional phone or car infotainment system than a touchscreen. I'm sure if AXS is so damn easy to press and shift with there is more danger of double shifting on that than there is with a shifter that gives intuitive feedback.... But anyway this whole topic is pointless anyway, no point slagging it off just for the sake of it.

I work in a super high volume shop that sees all kinds of people, from groadies to mountain bikers. 9 times out of 10 when a customer comes in with a broken chain it's because they mis-shifted.

See the great thing about AXS is that you don't need a shifter that has "intuitive feedback". Just push a button and it shifts.

I'm obviously not going to convince you, I'm just putting out there how I feel about AXS, which is that it's the perfect drivetrain for almost every type of bike.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 15:32 Quote
Fair enough, though that last bit I disagree with. Having wanted to purchase a Zerode gearbox bike and then opting for a deal on an sb165 last minute, I can say there is many situations where I am going too slow or in a trackstand and would like to shift gears without pedalling, something gearboxes offer and derailleurs don't. Additionally trying my bike without cassette and chain on some rough square edge hits proved to me unsprung mass is a real issue with mtb's, an issue gearboxes help to resolve and AXS adds to. Maybe the electronic gearbox with derailleur leves of drag or a cvt that is virtually frictionless will be the perfect answer, but AXS is still far from perfect as are all drivetrains and telescopic forks we are currently running. There is still major improvements to be made in the cycling industry, unfortunately though all we are getting is refinements and electronic gadgets and new sizing standards to tide us over rather than a complete new approach to the overall layout and design of the bike.
flag JustAnotherRiderHere
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 17:13 Quote
I've yet to see AXS components "acting up". I've seen my fair share of Di2 stuff go haywire though.[/Quote]

I have seen the exact opposite....many times.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 17:30 Quote
JustAnotherRiderHere wrote:

I have seen the exact opposite....many times.

Haha, well I call bullshit. But it doesn't matter I guess.
flag JustAnotherRiderHere
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 17:51 Quote
seraph wrote:
JustAnotherRiderHere wrote:

I have seen the exact opposite....many times.

Haha, well I call bullshit. But it doesn't matter I guess.

Seriously, I'm more than one occasion. People will show up at the trailhead either forget to charge their battery for seemingly for no reason it simply does not work. Happen to a guy just last week who drove two hours for the trails.

Don't forget... I am the person shopping for this to begin with and trying to make an educated decision.
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 19:36 Quote
seraph wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
But a well maintened xt, xtr or xx1 drivetrain also performs flawlessly this is the point, it's not like you have to tinker with the high and low screws and change gear cables every ride, mechanical goes for months at a time before needing some fettling if you buy quality components and set it up right. If people are getting ghost shifting ect with mechanical it's either because they don't know how to set it up or are using worn components, my xx1 eagle never ghost shifted once, the cassette and chain lasted over a year and still looked 90% like new. It's almost like you are comparing AXS to some 21 speed Shimano SIS or some shit. AXS is virtually the same as xx1 except the servo motor us movibg the derailleur rather than finger force, everything beyon the motor is the same, and before that is a battery and switch in place of a cable and shifter, now tell me how often do shifters fail ir not index, not very often, and how much does the cable stretch and seize up in a couple months if using quality cables, again not much.

You're not getting it, man. AXS removes virtually any chance of user error. The human hand is only so accurate.


I accidentally called or opened apps on my phone quite often but I don't actually re member accidentally shifteing in a way that it would not accidentally trigger any kind of button/trigger shifter or even a tv remote. What user error exactly does the axs eliminates, that is so common whith the people you know, give em some credit man, if things were that bad it would be an issue for most of us. You are still vague on your answers for a reliable "source"
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 21:17 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
seraph wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
But a well maintened xt, xtr or xx1 drivetrain also performs flawlessly this is the point, it's not like you have to tinker with the high and low screws and change gear cables every ride, mechanical goes for months at a time before needing some fettling if you buy quality components and set it up right. If people are getting ghost shifting ect with mechanical it's either because they don't know how to set it up or are using worn components, my xx1 eagle never ghost shifted once, the cassette and chain lasted over a year and still looked 90% like new. It's almost like you are comparing AXS to some 21 speed Shimano SIS or some shit. AXS is virtually the same as xx1 except the servo motor us movibg the derailleur rather than finger force, everything beyon the motor is the same, and before that is a battery and switch in place of a cable and shifter, now tell me how often do shifters fail ir not index, not very often, and how much does the cable stretch and seize up in a couple months if using quality cables, again not much.

You're not getting it, man. AXS removes virtually any chance of user error. The human hand is only so accurate.


I accidentally called or opened apps on my phone quite often but I don't actually re member accidentally shifteing in a way that it would not accidentally trigger any kind of button/trigger shifter or even a tv remote. What user error exactly does the axs eliminates, that is so common whith the people you know, give em some credit man, if things were that bad it would be an issue for most of us. You are still vague on your answers for a reliable "source"

Overshifting is caused by pushing the thumb shifter farther than you intended. On a 12-speed drivetrain, your chain is so narrow and the tolerances are so tight, a slight overshift can cause the chain to catch on the next cog and get damaged. I literally caught a chain today that was one bad shift away from exploding because the guy was shifting like an ogre. AXS eliminates that variable, because all the button does is tell the derailleur to shift the gears, and the derailleur knows exactly how far to move the cage.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 21:18 Quote
JustAnotherRiderHere wrote:
seraph wrote:
JustAnotherRiderHere wrote:

I have seen the exact opposite....many times.

Haha, well I call bullshit. But it doesn't matter I guess.

Seriously, I'm more than one occasion. People will show up at the trailhead either forget to charge their battery for seemingly for no reason it simply does not work. Happen to a guy just last week who drove two hours for the trails.

Don't forget... I am the person shopping for this to begin with and trying to make an educated decision.

I've never forgotten to charge my battery. And I carry a spare battery anyway just in case.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind though. Which is fine, more AXS for me.

 


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