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Single pivot vs. Dual pivot

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Single pivot vs. Dual pivot
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flag signorvince2
Posted: Jul 22, 2008 at 23:58 Quote
dg85 wrote:
also what about the session 88. is that single pivot still because it has the floating suspension im not sure if it is?

It's actually a split pivot, or floating axle. Just another way to separate braking/pedaling/suspension forces.
flag xltrider
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 0:05 Quote
vinceliberatore wrote:
dg85 wrote:
also what about the session 88. is that single pivot still because it has the floating suspension im not sure if it is?

It's actually a split pivot, or floating axle. Just another way to separate braking/pedaling/suspension forces.

as far as wheel path goes, it's single pivot. but yeah the new ones have the split pivot (ABP according to trek. same damn thing) so they can put the brake mount on the seat stay like fsr.
flag mosqito
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 13:16 Quote
There's actually 3 kinds of linkages..

First - The pure Singlepivot. a single swingarm conected to the frame with 1 bushing. (orange is a perfect example.)
Second - Singlepivot with a linkage-connection to the shock. (Like the commensal and a lot of other bikes.

And third - Split pivot, multiple linkage arms betwen the rear end and the front triangle on the frame. (Ironhorse sunday or any vpp bike for example)
flag dg85
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 13:18 Quote
xltrider wrote:
vinceliberatore wrote:
dg85 wrote:
also what about the session 88. is that single pivot still because it has the floating suspension im not sure if it is?

It's actually a split pivot, or floating axle. Just another way to separate braking/pedaling/suspension forces.

as far as wheel path goes, it's single pivot. but yeah the new ones have the split pivot (ABP according to trek. same damn thing) so they can put the brake mount on the seat stay like fsr.

cheers guys. learn something new everyday.
flag xltrider
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 13:45 Quote
mosqito wrote:
There's actually 3 kinds of linkages..

First - The pure Singlepivot. a single swingarm conected to the frame with 1 bushing. (orange is a perfect example.)
Second - Singlepivot with a linkage-connection to the shock. (Like the commensal and a lot of other bikes.

And third - Split pivot, multiple linkage arms betwen the rear end and the front triangle on the frame. (Ironhorse sunday or any vpp bike for example)

that's not split pivot. that's called VPP/dw-link/Maestro (in other words a dual link suspension)

Split Pivot is a regular single pivot with seatstays (like a kona) but the seatstay pivot is concentric with the rear axle (like Dave Weagle's Split Pivot or Trek's ABP)
flag dylanvarkonja
O+
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 14:00 Quote
FSR is technically dual pivot, as there is two pivots separating the axle from the frame.

Single pivot isn't necessarily a bad thing, It just has to be done properly.

The trek split pivot design is still basically a single pivot, the split pivot just acts as a floating brake.

Konas are a linkage actuated single pivot design, meaning that the rear wheel has only one pivot between it and the frame. Linkage actuated single pivots (kona, transition, banshee etc.) usually have a main pivot that isn't high enough to allow for an axle path that has good bump absorbing qualities.

The Yeti 303 DH defies all of the know categories for suspension designs, as the axle path is decided by rails instead of pivots, giving a truly unique axle path compared to most standard suspension designs.
flag bikemonkey
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 14:07 Quote
boobing is induce by ever changing chain length. a well placed single pivot will diminish pedal bob, a high concentric pivot bike will completely eliminate pedal bob when correctly tuned.

multi links, vvp or dw suspension bikes also suffer from pedal bob. Hardtails DO NOT.

please do not fall into media frenzy and confirm that dw, vvp or maestro is the way to go, even though you haven't tried any of them.
flag fantaman
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 15:05 Quote
and bikes that uses the moto linkage system onto there suspension design's like the bergamont Team DH,Solid Mission 9,session 10.Those are multi pivot bikes???.
flag xltrider
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 16:56 Quote
they are linkage-driven single pivots. when you say single pivot/fsr/dual link suspension you are talking about axle path. all major motocross bikes are single pivots. japanese motocross bikes are linkage-driven single pivots, in other words, the shock is connected to the swingarm by a linkage. modern ktm bikes are simple single pivots, with the shock mounted directly to the swingarm.
flag xltrider
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 at 16:56 Quote
bikemonkey wrote:
boobing is induce by ever changing chain length. a well placed single pivot will diminish pedal bob, a high concentric pivot bike will completely eliminate pedal bob when correctly tuned.

multi links, vvp or dw suspension bikes also suffer from pedal bob. Hardtails DO NOT.

please do not fall into media frenzy and confirm that dw, vvp or maestro is the way to go, even though you haven't tried any of them.

what is a high concentric pivot?
flag bikemonkey
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 at 6:51 Quote
xltrider wrote:
what is a high concentric pivot?

when the swing arm pivots around the axle of the chain ring. like the g-boxx.
flag xltrider
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 at 10:18 Quote
ooooh ok. thanks. i thought it would mean a high bb to...
flag mosqito
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 at 12:50 Quote
xltrider wrote:
mosqito wrote:
There's actually 3 kinds of linkages..

First - The pure Singlepivot. a single swingarm conected to the frame with 1 bushing. (orange is a perfect example.)
Second - Singlepivot with a linkage-connection to the shock. (Like the commensal and a lot of other bikes.

And third - Split pivot, multiple linkage arms betwen the rear end and the front triangle on the frame. (Ironhorse sunday or any vpp bike for example)

that's not split pivot. that's called VPP/dw-link/Maestro (in other words a dual link suspension)

Split Pivot is a regular single pivot with seatstays (like a kona) but the seatstay pivot is concentric with the rear axle (like Dave Weagle's Split Pivot or Trek's ABP)
Ur right, thats what i ment, i wrote that in a hurry, sorry.
flag canberradh
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 at 17:46 Quote
Guys some of u sound like people who have never even ridden some of these bikes!!
What kona do is a bike thats not bad for hucking if u like cracked head tubes, there rear suspension is multi pivot, but acts like a single pivot, has the worst brake jack i have encountered,and terrible pedal feedback.

fsr designs are the most vertical in the axle path thus making them most efficient though bumps and under pedaling, also have no brake jack as the rear brake caliper moves up and down with the wheel not against it as the brake caliper is mounted on the seat stay not the chain stay like a kona, specialized has a pivot in front of the axle and slightly below the axle and thats what makes them king!.

maestro is absolute bullocks and vpp comes verry close to fsr for axle path yet still has a lil pedal feed back but nearly no brake jack.
flag xltrider
Posted: Jul 25, 2008 at 1:50 Quote
i think just about everyone who has spent over a grand on a mountain bike knows where specialized puts their pivots. as for ride quality...stick with you opinion, i'll stick with mine. me? i'll ride what i can afford, and if what i can afford rides well, then i'm set. looks like i'm set. and i ride a mongoose.tup

 


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