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Is a Flat Landing Really That Bad?

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Is a Flat Landing Really That Bad?
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flag m3hl
FL
Posted: Oct 17, 2007 at 11:22 Quote
I dont have the patients to read all 8 pages but ill put in my 2 cents. Landing to flat kills your bike and body, not to mention it looks terrible. BMXers can do because they are usually 3ing or something (a boner straight air isnt a trick). plus those are STREET bikes, I ride a MOUNTAIN bike. I just cant stand when i see people land to flat (even on trails).

but on the other hand there is a lot of stuff about mountain biking that makes me mad, and i know jumping stairs wont go away anytime soon.
flag hawskill
Posted: Oct 22, 2007 at 17:08 Quote
Here is my view on flat landing. When a skateboarder or bmx rider lands to flat the must use there body immediately as suspension. However when a mountain biker lands to flat their suspension kicks in and when it finally does bottom the mountain biker’s body is generally not in the correct position. Thus the bottoming of the Mountain bike is far more painful.

As for damage to bikes in my opinion you will do more damage to a MTB then BMX bike based on size. Larger the wheel the easier it will bend. Longer the fork the more leverage it has on the head tube.
flag milfhunter
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 at 8:11 Quote
Same as ski jumping, due to the slope your velocity is reduced, you are effectively falling slower, thus the landing is softer, sorted.
flag huckstoflat
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 at 8:15 Quote
I havent had a problem
flag he11uvagoodtyme
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 at 8:18 Quote
m3hl wrote:
BMXers can do because they are usually 3ing or something (a boner straight air isnt a trick). plus those are STREET bikes, I ride a MOUNTAIN bike. I just cant stand when i see people land to flat (even on trails).

i agree and disagree. I hate seeing little kids with their P2s and chases riding around down town droppin 5 stairs when they should be riding parks and trails. Maybe it's just a phase to get their balance down. who knows. There's a few exceptions to what you said though. You telling me that if there was a 9 stair, with a ledge that went straight out starting from the top that's only 7 inches wide, followed by a dumpster right at the end.... if you finelined the ledge and did a full tuck to gap over the dumpster and went to flat that it wouldn't be style.... I do understand what you're saying.

Personally i just think there's a time and place for everything. I don't think landing to flat is a bad thing. I don't think it's cool if you're just droping a 9 stair just because. Sometimes a good line makes you go to flat. But just make sure it's worth it.
flag cowieuk
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 at 8:46 Quote
billygoatsgruff wrote:
Thanks for someone finally knowing some projectile physics...I've also studied engineering and this stuff is basic principals. "A body (rider and bike) will remain at rest or at constant speed unless acted on by an unbalaced force." No matter how fast you go horizontally gravity will exert the same force on your mass (9.8 newtons per kilogram) and accelerate you towards the ground at 9.8m/s/s (assuming air resistance is negligable.) This is why any object will fall at the same speed in a vacuum, no matter its shape or mass.

Effectively when landing on flat you decelerate in the vertical direction in an instant (snap!) your vertical kinetic energy is changed into heat/sound/moving earth etc in milliseconds. A gradiated landing, such as a half pipe, lengthens the vertical decelarion period by spreading it over a horizontal distance, therefor extending the time in which your vertical kinetic energy is changed.

In Physics terms a flat landing feels 'harsh' because of what is defined as power. (Power = Energy / Time) You land with greater power onto flat because time is the variable dictated by the gradient of the landing.

But if you hit a drop with equations on your mind you're probably in trouble! Who says physics ain't useful?;P

Best post I've seen, good to see some people ain't guessing. Same for the engineer dude.

Landing to flat is ok and can be pretty cool if your out riding street but out on a downhill track it sucks, if you overshoot something to flat and your suspension is compressed things could get nasty if you hit a big nasty root, or if your rebound setting gives you a bit of a bounce.

Also landing to flat isn't going to help if you lose all your speed for the next jump.

Landing to flat normally doesn't look nice and damages equipment. Nobody is a pussy for not wanting to land to flat, personally I don't like landing to flat but that doesn't mean it's completely bad.
flag danfa
Posted: Feb 7, 2008 at 7:39 Quote
am gonna say no as long as ur goin fast enough so keep it pinned braaaaaaaaaaaaap
flag youngadam
Posted: Feb 7, 2008 at 7:51 Quote
depends what your flat landing, a cliff is a no no, a medioka drop on a dh why not??
flag superdudster666
Posted: Feb 23, 2008 at 17:02 Quote
ridingqc wrote:
bullitxl wrote:
johnthewolf wrote:
hey bullitxl, do you think you could explain why then it does feel smoother to land a drop to flat the more speed you have?

if you read the previous page, you'll see that the current explanations attemps were quite miserable...!

The fact that some people think that it "feels smoother to land a drop to flat the more speed you have" is just that, only a "feel" because on paper, from the same height, there's no difference. It probably only feels that way because they have more forward momentum when they hit it faster.

Neglecting friction, say you leave a drop perfectly horizontal at 20km/h your horizontal velocity is 20km/h when you leave the ledge and when you hit the ground. Now hit the same drop at 40km/h your horizontal velocity is 40km/h when you leave the drop and when you hit the ground. In both cases your vertical velocity is zero at the instant you leave the ledge.

In both cases you fall 5 feet and you would be in the air for 0.56 seconds. Your vertical velocity in both cases when you hit the level ground is 9.81m/s^2/0.56 seconds = 5.47m/s or 19.6 km/h.

Since you fall the same height in both cases, and hit the ground with the same vertical velocity, the vertical force you impact the ground with in both cases is the same.


Look what this guy said is true the ONLY thing that made us think that going faster off a drop is smooter is that our wheels (witch turn faster) absorb the impact on a large area (maybe 1/4 turn) instead of 1 inch when falling with no speed. So when you're going faster your bike is stronger !!

no! say your doing a dirt jump and the reason the landing is smooth is that you meet up with it parallel and force on you is applied gradually. So gravity is a momentum of you going towards the earth. The faster you move forward the slower gravity can pull you down(the more speed you hit a drop with the further you go). So the faster you go when you land the more parallel you are and more smooth.
flag WasabiJim
Posted: Feb 23, 2008 at 18:18 Quote
bullitxl wrote:
johnthewolf wrote:
hey bullitxl, do you think you could explain why then it does feel smoother to land a drop to flat the more speed you have?

if you read the previous page, you'll see that the current explanations attemps were quite miserable...!
The fact that some people think that it "feels smoother to land a drop to flat the more speed you have" is just that, only a "feel" because on paper, from the same height, there's no difference. It probably only feels that way because they have more forward momentum when they hit it faster.
Since you fall the same height in both cases, and hit the ground with the same vertical velocity, the vertical force you impact the ground with in both cases is the same.

fast to flat vs slow to flat, its only a “feel” cause as explained in exam condition style the downward force is the same for both.

the feel is a result of better landing technique because of inertia. someone mentioned the centripetal / centrifugal forces generated by rotating wheels, they produce the effect that keeps the bike upright - spin a wheel in your hands and try tip/twist it. this combined with forward momentum helps eliminate factors which can upset the upright state and balance of whole rider/bike/gravity/impact system.

So more speed = more inertia and stability particularly uprightness. As such we as humans often the weakest link, have a stable bike and less to deal with so we can better focus on making a better landing (done subconsciously), while impact forces are transmitted in more contained up/down vectors into the right parts – shocks, bent knees and arms not parts that break – wheels, cranks, pedals, ankles.

With out the stability that comes with speed when you drop going too slow any mistake or minor imbalance will be felt more or result in rookie moves. That’s why we admire trial riders so much, they have complete control with out the assistance of a stable bike/rider system when dealing with the same amount of downward impact force.
flag dandhmtb
Posted: Apr 5, 2008 at 3:39 Quote
if u have descend bikes ... who cares aslong as they dont brake Razz
flag fortune-cookie-rider
Posted: Apr 5, 2008 at 4:41 Quote
sorry guys whats a huck or hucker..?? sounds stupid i kno..:P
flag dandhmtb
Posted: Apr 5, 2008 at 4:42 Quote
huck is when you hurl yourself off something .. (i think) haha and a hucker is like someone who launches off stuff all the time lol i think :S
flag
Posted: Apr 5, 2008 at 7:29 Quote
DH/FR bikes usually have square tubing versus the round tubing of a BMX bikes. this square tubing is meant to take large vertical forces (something like 4 or 5 g's before they break bend or crack). considering that wrists and ankles can only take 2 g's before they shatter, i'm pretty sure that you can land flat without breaking the frame. its the tires, cranks and pedals that might break.

 


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