Powered by Outside

High Gas Prices

PB Forum :: Off-Topic
High Gas Prices
Author Message
flag
Posted: Jun 23, 2008 at 19:32 Quote
My Jeep isn't too bad on gas if I drive it like a civilized human being, so I'm not going to be changing my driving habits anytime soon.

The only time I hate going to the pump is after a 4x4 excursion with it out in the bush for most of the day when I burn 20L of fuel after driving 10km in the bush.

My dirtbike is awesome on gas. I can ride 4-5+ hrs on 15 bucks worth of super unleaded..Should buy a moped for on road use too!
flag brad-maxwell
Posted: Jun 23, 2008 at 19:46 Quote
Saab took 85 dollars of premium today
eugh
When I was a kid there where gas wars goign on and gas hit 28 cents a liter.
If it hit that these days I would go on a mad roadtrip
flag onemanarmy
FL
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 10:53 Quote
devonvig wrote:
draco wrote:
brad-maxwell wrote:


great post
but just so you know
laurie does not give to shits about gas milegae.
must be nice to have a rich daddy

now now boys. I find it hypocritical when anyone on a website with a high-operating-cost-sport theme calls anyone out on how they operate financially. There are people in the world that think we are fools for riding multi-thousand dollar bikes. How people do their thing is their own deal. And she claims to be working a set up that handles it for her. I know people in the same situation making bank, so hey. play nice.

Yeah, recognizing your own hypocrisy and contribution to the problem is the first step in solving it. Unless you live somewhere like Bend, Oregon, where the good riding is right outside your door and doesn't require driving or lifts, mountain biking is an inherently wasteful activity, more so than almost any other sport out there I would say. The costs of the equipment are high and the costs of participating (driving, lift operations etc.) are even higher. Personally, I don't see why mountain biking has such a "green" image. Besides motor sports (dirt biking and such), it's probably one of the least "green" activities out there. Ironically, those who heavily participate in outdoor sports likely consume more (and waste more) than your average urban dweller.

As per rich people spending more, that's just what they do. It's human nature. If you have more money, you're more likely to piss it away on luxeries that others consider pointless or wasteful...until they too are rich and can piss their money away on those same luxeries. That's what we call "development." Are they bad people for consuming more because they can? Maybe, as they obviosuly contribute more to the problem than your average person and often don't care about the effects and externalities they produce (especially in places like Calgary, Texas etc.) Does that make those who aren't rich better people? Probably not. Everyone is North America consumes pretty close to their personal threshold and income level...and here we arrive at the fundamental reason why I consider high fuel prices to be a neccessity if we're to cut emissions and break the addiction to oil.

Can't say I always agree with you and I'll get into the cycling (green) thing when I'm not at work...

but I will say this. I ALWAYS enjoy reading your posts. Very intelligent. Its a nice change of pace. Reminds me of the old PB days. Thanks for actually using the mass of nerves between your ears.
flag srobinson
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 11:34 Quote
Rising gas prices aren't going to do much. Most are so used to cars, they aren't going to give it up. The only people who will stop driving is the poor, because they can no longer afford it. This means destroying their livelihood, loss of job, whatever. Is it going to make a difference? No. They didn't drive much to begin with, because they couldn't afford it. Meanwhile the rich continue to drive their gas-guzzlers because they can.

Consider this:

There is 100,000 gallons of fuel left in the world. Whoever the co-owner of apple with his 100+ foot yuaght or whatever it is, can take 50,000 in one shot, and burn it in a day or two. No matter the price, he's still going to pay up in order to show off his boat. And you know where most of that fuel goes? Maybe 10% of it is in getting to his destination, the rest is burned firing up every engine on the boat in order to speed across the harbor at 58mph (1 more than the other guy) to show off. Fair? I think not.

So how do you solve it? You can't. Everybody could get a card entitling them to a certain amount of gas. The rich then buy other peoples cards, and we're back to ground zero.

So are rising gas prices going to solve anything? No. Stop making gas guzzling cars, extravagant boats and private jets, and we may get somewhere. Or you could tax the shit out of the owners of such vessels. The general population is going to be hit with the price, but the real problem is elsewhere. Why treat the symptom when you can cure the desiese? Well, because people feel the need to show off there wealth and impress others with material goods. The only way to stop it, is by no longer supplying those goods. Which, after thinking about it, also isn't going to happen because the builder wants the money too. Greed is the problem. It's a vicious cycle.
flag skatejunkie
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 12:00 Quote
devonvig wrote:
draco wrote:
brad-maxwell wrote:


great post
but just so you know
laurie does not give to shits about gas milegae.
must be nice to have a rich daddy

now now boys. I find it hypocritical when anyone on a website with a high-operating-cost-sport theme calls anyone out on how they operate financially. There are people in the world that think we are fools for riding multi-thousand dollar bikes. How people do their thing is their own deal. And she claims to be working a set up that handles it for her. I know people in the same situation making bank, so hey. play nice.

Yeah, recognizing your own hypocrisy and contribution to the problem is the first step in solving it. Unless you live somewhere like Bend, Oregon, where the good riding is right outside your door and doesn't require driving or lifts, mountain biking is an inherently wasteful activity, more so than almost any other sport out there I would say. The costs of the equipment are high and the costs of participating (driving, lift operations etc.) are even higher. Personally, I don't see why mountain biking has such a "green" image. Besides motor sports (dirt biking and such), it's probably one of the least "green" activities out there. Ironically, those who heavily participate in outdoor sports likely consume more (and waste more) than your average urban dweller.

As per rich people spending more, that's just what they do. It's human nature. If you have more money, you're more likely to piss it away on luxeries that others consider pointless or wasteful...until they too are rich and can piss their money away on those same luxeries. That's what we call "development." Are they bad people for consuming more because they can? Maybe, as they obviosuly contribute more to the problem than your average person and often don't care about the effects and externalities they produce (especially in places like Calgary, Texas etc.) Does that make those who aren't rich better people? Probably not. Everyone is North America consumes pretty close to their personal threshold and income level...and here we arrive at the fundamental reason why I consider high fuel prices to be a neccessity if we're to cut emissions and break the addiction to oil.


Good incite, I can't say that I agree with everything you say, but you have some good points.

You could argue that mountain biking isn't green because of lifts and shuttling, buts generalizing that Downhill is the only form of Mountain Biking. Around where I live and many other places I've been, a majority of people, including myself, prefer to ride out there driveway to get to the trails than to drive to them, mainly because of gas and its better exercise anyways. Bicycling is actually one of the few sports that doesn't Require other forms of transportation to do.
flag sam-davies
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 12:03 Quote
brad-maxwell wrote:
Saab took 85 dollars of premium today
eugh
When I was a kid there where gas wars goign on and gas hit 28 cents a liter.
If it hit that these days I would go on a mad roadtrip

At the rate that fuel/gas prices are rising, when I'm old enough to drive I'll be saying exactly the same thing as you. So go on a roadtrip nowWink


P.S, I'm sure half of the people in Britain would go on a roadtrip if they were living in North America because fuel prices here are as high as £1.35/$2.70 a litre.
flag brad-maxwell
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 14:46 Quote
samthebiker wrote:
brad-maxwell wrote:
Saab took 85 dollars of premium today
eugh
When I was a kid there where gas wars goign on and gas hit 28 cents a liter.
If it hit that these days I would go on a mad roadtrip

At the rate that fuel/gas prices are rising, when I'm old enough to drive I'll be saying exactly the same thing as you. So go on a roadtrip nowWink


P.S, I'm sure half of the people in Britain would go on a roadtrip if they were living in North America because fuel prices here are as high as £1.35/$2.70 a litre.

You guys have a way better public transportation system than us. We sort of have to rely on cars you guys not so much.
flag devonvig
O+
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 20:09 Quote
onemanarmy wrote:
devonvig wrote:
draco wrote:


now now boys. I find it hypocritical when anyone on a website with a high-operating-cost-sport theme calls anyone out on how they operate financially. There are people in the world that think we are fools for riding multi-thousand dollar bikes. How people do their thing is their own deal. And she claims to be working a set up that handles it for her. I know people in the same situation making bank, so hey. play nice.

Yeah, recognizing your own hypocrisy and contribution to the problem is the first step in solving it. Unless you live somewhere like Bend, Oregon, where the good riding is right outside your door and doesn't require driving or lifts, mountain biking is an inherently wasteful activity, more so than almost any other sport out there I would say. The costs of the equipment are high and the costs of participating (driving, lift operations etc.) are even higher. Personally, I don't see why mountain biking has such a "green" image. Besides motor sports (dirt biking and such), it's probably one of the least "green" activities out there. Ironically, those who heavily participate in outdoor sports likely consume more (and waste more) than your average urban dweller.

As per rich people spending more, that's just what they do. It's human nature. If you have more money, you're more likely to piss it away on luxeries that others consider pointless or wasteful...until they too are rich and can piss their money away on those same luxeries. That's what we call "development." Are they bad people for consuming more because they can? Maybe, as they obviosuly contribute more to the problem than your average person and often don't care about the effects and externalities they produce (especially in places like Calgary, Texas etc.) Does that make those who aren't rich better people? Probably not. Everyone is North America consumes pretty close to their personal threshold and income level...and here we arrive at the fundamental reason why I consider high fuel prices to be a neccessity if we're to cut emissions and break the addiction to oil.

Can't say I always agree with you and I'll get into the cycling (green) thing when I'm not at work...

but I will say this. I ALWAYS enjoy reading your posts. Very intelligent. Its a nice change of pace. Reminds me of the old PB days. Thanks for actually using the mass of nerves between your ears.
flag onemanarmy
FL
Posted: Jun 24, 2008 at 20:38 Quote
mtb green views...

I think you're statement is true in a UBER generalized sector.

Cycling and MTB riding in general is loaded with youths that don't drive and planet aware people that take the best care they can of the planet.

I for one didn't get my license til' I was nearly 20 and that's only because I had to. I was injured and someone stole my bike. I used to ride over 200 miles a week. I rode to work, school, the mountains, the trails, etc. I used to ride to the train station. Then take the train to S.F. then ride to work. etc. There are LOTS of people that do this. In santa cruz there are TONS of folks that ride everywhere whenever possible. I think that the numbers are growing because of the gas prices and the unfortunate lack of public transit in lots of places or the uselessness of it for most people. I could take the bus but it'd triple my commute time and I'd never be home.

So saying it's not green is true only when applied to folks that do nothing but shuttling.

As for it being a rich person's sport. That's some what true but only if you are at upper levels of riding, rich or stuck in the gotta have that consumerism of most of the mtb mags. My bike is probably 5 years old and still serves its purpose. When I raced I had over $3500 in my race bike... and it was a hard tail and this was 10 years ago. To get a bike of that level to compete at that level I'd be talking $3500-5500 these days. But truth is you don't HAVE to have the best and the newest. I am rusty, fat and out of shape and I'd bet that on single track I'm smoother than most of the kids you see shuttling and pedaling around on $4500 full suspension bikes... because when you ride rigid and bmx your whole life you have to be. Most kids have technology to pick up the slop for them now.



So not that I totally disagree with you... just think it's an extremely narrow point of view.


You want a non green rich only sport try skiing and snowboarding. I could buy a brand new bike every other year for the amount of dough I spend in 2 years snowboarding between gas, food, tickets and gear... and I don't spend that much compared to lots of people because I have a cabin to stay at and YEARS worth of gear so I only replace a few pieces each year that need it. I have I think 11 boards in my garage right now. 2 BRAND new sets of bindings still in the box.

There's nothing green about skiing and snowboarding and its getting RIDICULOUSLY expensive.
flag devonvig
O+
Posted: Jun 25, 2008 at 7:42 Quote
onemanarmy wrote:
mtb green views...

expensive.

That's very true and I was definitely generalizing (bad habit of mine). That being said, the image of mountain biking somewhere like Marin, Santa Cruz or Bend is VERY different from mountain biking in Alberta. I try to limit my own hypocrisy by not driving for any reason other than to go mountain biking. Sadly, it's a neccessity here, largely due to poor urban planning and a limited network of trails in the vicinity of the city. I have actually considered purchasing a scooter with a trailer attachment for my bike, both for the fuel efficiency improvements and because I have an unnatural love for impeding aggressive drivers on the highway (I'm that douche going 90-95 in the 110 zone to save gas. Be sure to wave!)

But...I still find the pervasive "green" image and self-righteousness of outdoor sports enthusiasts in general very disconcerting. As you said, skiing and snowboarding are the worst offenders. I got out skiing 5 days this year (I don't really care for it to begin with) and probably won't get out at all next year. It is nearly impossible to spend less than $100 on a day, not counting equipment costs.

People are generally unwilling to admit their own contribution to the problem, which is why I can't see anything limiting fuel use besides rising costs. I would love nothing more than for people to give up elective driving or limit vehicle size out of the goodness of their hearts (and a mutual dislike for corrupt oil producing nations), but I just can't see it happening. It certainly hasn't happened much in the past. If you look (not too hard mind you), fuel efficiency standards and energy use closely follow the curve of the cost of oil. Why do you think that SUVs and trucks with 18-20mpg fuel economy standards became so popular in the 90s? Because oil was cheap and SUVs are comfortable. And why isn't most of Europe as reliant on cars and fuel and therefore less sensitive to price shocks (which we are currently experiencing)? Because they progressively raised fuel taxes to a prohibitive level to gradually limit use (and waste) and encourage alternatives.

Suppose I shouldn't complain too much, seeing how Alberta announced a budget surplus of nearly $5 billion this year, forecasted to rise to $10 billion next year, almost completely thanks to the rise in oil prices. And as for Alberta drivers, please don't say something stupid like "they should subsidize gas for us as we produce the dern stuff." That's what Venezuala does, and look at how awesome it is to live in Venezuala. Nothing cures a heroin addiction like making heroin cheaper, right?
flag cjm330
Posted: Jun 25, 2008 at 8:50 Quote
If you think you have it bad we brits are paying £1.18 per litre thats about $2.50 for petrol and £1.30 ($2.70) for diesel and there are 3.8l in a us gallon!!
flag draco
Posted: Jun 25, 2008 at 20:56 Quote
cjmcbrierty wrote:
If you think you have it bad we brits are paying £1.18 per litre thats about $2.50 for petrol and £1.30 ($2.70) for diesel and there are 3.8l in a us gallon!!

I spent a couple weeks working in england and to fill the tank of an audi R8... 20 gallons = $140usd at the time.. we took it to the track, trailered it there because of how pricey it would be to drive it down!

On the flipside, back stateside, I filled nother R8 tank, only $88. So as far as I am concerned, fuel prices stateside are still very low compared to the rest of the world you know?

until gas cracks the $8.25 mark here, I'm not concerned.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/r8%20and%20england/kevgas.jpg
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/r8%20and%20england/73lbsfuel.jpg
flag laurie1
Mod
Posted: Jun 25, 2008 at 21:03 Quote
Try filling up with 104 Octane.
flag brad-maxwell
Posted: Jun 25, 2008 at 21:06 Quote
laurie1 wrote:
Try filling up with 104 Octane.

what car would even need that? Also where would you ever find it
flag srobinson
Posted: Jun 25, 2008 at 21:08 Quote
brad-maxwell wrote:
laurie1 wrote:
Try filling up with 104 Octane.

what car would even need that? Also where would you ever find it

It's race fuel. You won't find it at a gas station. It's for extremely high compression engines.

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.027632
Mobile Version of Website