A civil discussion on trail building practices and the ethics of guerrilla/trail-anista land use.

PB Forum :: Trail Building
A civil discussion on trail building practices and the ethics of guerrilla/trail-anista land use.
Author Message
flag shondo
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 9:58 Quote
derekt wrote:
I do

You do what specifically? Details if you please.Smile
flag derekt
O+
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 12:19 Quote
shondo wrote:
derekt wrote:
I do

You do what specifically? Details if you please.Smile
i am in a trail group called the forbidden freeriders Razz
this is the guy who started it, we are a farely new trail group but we have alredy resurected a trail and are working on another one http://forbiddenfreeriders.pinkbike.com/
flag pinkrobe
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 12:24 Quote
shondo wrote:
How many members in this thread belong to a "legit" MTB trail advocacy group?
I confess that I do not. I have a very hard time belonging to groups.
I have to say that in my neck of the woods, I don't have the first clue who is doing a CMBA group. They're just off my radar, or non-existant perhaps.
I heard that one of the issues plaguing the creation of mtb specic areas in our city, was that it seemed to be next to impossible to get people to commit to any kind of meeting attendance for hearings and such.
I know I actually feel guilty about my lack of involvment, but I just do not have the time to commit to pestering city hall. I'd rather ride, do a little trail maintenance when I get the guilts for riding other people's work, and I keep quiet about stuff I find when out exploring.

I'm part of an advocacy group in Calgary, the CMBA. I also help with the Friends of Fish Creek and the Friends of Kananaskis. Hypothetically, I may help out with unsanctioned trail work if the opportunity presents itself. Wink

I'm feeling kind of stuck. I want to build and ride in the Moose Mountain area, but to do so goes against the wishes of Parks and SRD. FoFC and FoK are categorically opposed to any unsanctioned trail building. The CMBA has a good relationship with all of these organizations, which we want to maintain. However, is that all we want? A good relationship? I would like to ride some new singletrack, not just horse trails and old cutlines, with the vague promise of new multi-use trails.

So, should the CMBA advocate new trail regardless of whether it's official or not? If the CMBA goes "pirate", does it matter?
flag S1L3NTR4GE
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 12:28 Quote
pinkrobe wrote:
shondo wrote:
How many members in this thread belong to a "legit" MTB trail advocacy group?
I confess that I do not. I have a very hard time belonging to groups.
I have to say that in my neck of the woods, I don't have the first clue who is doing a CMBA group. They're just off my radar, or non-existant perhaps.
I heard that one of the issues plaguing the creation of mtb specic areas in our city, was that it seemed to be next to impossible to get people to commit to any kind of meeting attendance for hearings and such.
I know I actually feel guilty about my lack of involvment, but I just do not have the time to commit to pestering city hall. I'd rather ride, do a little trail maintenance when I get the guilts for riding other people's work, and I keep quiet about stuff I find when out exploring.

I'm part of an advocacy group in Calgary, the CMBA. I also help with the Friends of Fish Creek and the Friends of Kananaskis. Hypothetically, I may help out with unsanctioned trail work if the opportunity presents itself. Wink

I'm feeling kind of stuck. I want to build and ride in the Moose Mountain area, but to do so goes against the wishes of Parks and SRD. FoFC and FoK are categorically opposed to any unsanctioned trail building. The CMBA has a good relationship with all of these organizations, which we want to maintain. However, is that all we want? A good relationship? I would like to ride some new singletrack, not just horse trails and old cutlines, with the vague promise of new multi-use trails.

So, should the CMBA advocate new trail regardless of whether it's official or not? If the CMBA goes "pirate", does it matter?
see this is a good point they dont want dedicated mtb trails they want multi use stuff for a broad spectrum of users if u want a gnar trail thats techy and sketch its gotta be "unsanctioned" or htell never let you do every thing you want on your trail simply because of liability
flag pinkrobe
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 13:12 Quote
S1L3NTR4GE wrote:
see this is a good point they dont want dedicated mtb trails they want multi use stuff for a broad spectrum of users if u want a gnar trail thats techy and sketch its gotta be "unsanctioned" or htell never let you do every thing you want on your trail simply because of liability
I'm not even talking about gnar trail - I'm talking about sustainable IMBA-style XC singletrack. The only danger here is that somebody might get some exercise.
flag S1L3NTR4GE
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 14:50 Quote
pinkrobe wrote:
S1L3NTR4GE wrote:
see this is a good point they dont want dedicated mtb trails they want multi use stuff for a broad spectrum of users if u want a gnar trail thats techy and sketch its gotta be "unsanctioned" or htell never let you do every thing you want on your trail simply because of liability
I'm not even talking about gnar trail - I'm talking about sustainable IMBA-style XC singletrack. The only danger here is that somebody might get some exercise.
hahaha lol yeah im a dher so i automatically think gnar trail but yeah same applies 2 any discipline if you want a good trail that is solely 4 mtb use your gonna get a fight from some one
flag me2menow
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 15:01 Quote
the right side of the article basically argues that we should not ride illegal trails to refrain from being rebels. ??????Thumbs Down Thumbs Down Thumbs Down

who are these people??? if it has been proven to be harmless then why make them illegal? then we wont have to be "rebels"

where else are we supposed to build local trails if everywhere it off limit??Very confused
flag skatejunkie
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 18:50 Quote
shondo wrote:
skatejunkie wrote:
We have other DH trails around but you have to drive 15 miles to get to it, I don't mind going out there two or three times a month but I can't drive 30 miles whenever I want to ride a good Downhill.
Nik

I gotta drive 3 hours to get to a good hill. 15 miles? Awwww.........
But seriously, building pirate runs is one thing, but building them in a Park area is probably not too great.

well I get out of school at 4:00 and wouldn't be able to leave for my ride until 4:30 get there to the trail head by 5:00 at which it gets dark by 5:30 so i drive 30minutes and ride 30 minutes, I would be fine riding in the dark, but I don't drive, I have to get a ride with my parents who are not so down with riding after dark.

fortunately that will change because I'm getting my license in two weeks so I'll be able to take off straight from school.

But yeah, I feel bad for anyone who has to drive three hours,
flag shondo
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 19:03 Quote
skatejunkie wrote:
shondo wrote:
skatejunkie wrote:
We have other DH trails around but you have to drive 15 miles to get to it, I don't mind going out there two or three times a month but I can't drive 30 miles whenever I want to ride a good Downhill.
Nik

I gotta drive 3 hours to get to a good hill. 15 miles? Awwww.........
But seriously, building pirate runs is one thing, but building them in a Park area is probably not too great.

well I get out of school at 4:00 and wouldn't be able to leave for my ride until 4:30 get there to the trail head by 5:00 at which it gets dark by 5:30 so i drive 30minutes and ride 30 minutes, I would be fine riding in the dark, but I don't drive, I have to get a ride with my parents who are not so down with riding after dark.

fortunately that will change because I'm getting my license in two weeks so I'll be able to take off straight from school.

But yeah, I feel bad for anyone who has to drive three hours,

It gets dark at 5:30? When, in the winter? At least you can ride in the winter.
Sometimes I think I'd kill to live somewhere warmer.Big Grin
flag skatejunkie
Posted: Jan 6, 2009 at 20:15 Quote
shondo wrote:
skatejunkie wrote:
shondo wrote:


I gotta drive 3 hours to get to a good hill. 15 miles? Awwww.........
But seriously, building pirate runs is one thing, but building them in a Park area is probably not too great.

well I get out of school at 4:00 and wouldn't be able to leave for my ride until 4:30 get there to the trail head by 5:00 at which it gets dark by 5:30 so i drive 30minutes and ride 30 minutes, I would be fine riding in the dark, but I don't drive, I have to get a ride with my parents who are not so down with riding after dark.

fortunately that will change because I'm getting my license in two weeks so I'll be able to take off straight from school.

But yeah, I feel bad for anyone who has to drive three hours,

It gets dark at 5:30? When, in the winter? At least you can ride in the winter.
Sometimes I think I'd kill to live somewhere warmer.Big Grin

HA! thats the best part about California, while the rest of the world suffers snow and poor riding conditions, are trails are at their best. It does get damn cold in the winter but since I'm next to the ocean there is no problems with snow. The downside to this is that in the summer, especially if we have a dry winter the trails turn to dust, Its almost comparable to having 2-4 inches of snow on the ground, and it gets too hot to ride on some days, but thats what we have the ocean for.
flag davemud
Posted: Jan 8, 2009 at 15:34 Quote
I'm a little a bit disappointed to see "illicit use" in the title now because while our use maybe illegal and/or not permitted I don't think its immoral or unethical if we are being as respectful as possible of the land and other users.

I much prefer the term civil disobediance as our group had a lot of success with civil disobediance at SFU/Burnaby Mountain. People disregarding the bans all over the Greater Vancouver District has resulted in many world class riding facilities that are now sanctioned and as accepted as hiking and equestrian use by the cities and landmanagement agencies due to the tourisim that has grown from the work done.

We've been successful here because the main trail builders are very professional and build to extremely high standards. The big problem for land managers originally was that there were no trail standards to build to. Now there are even if they are local.
flag davemud
Posted: Jan 8, 2009 at 16:05 Quote
shondo wrote:
better?

ummm... I'm not sure. lol

I just never thought of us as being too nefarious. Sometimes the people have to push the powers that be in the direction things need to go for the greater good. I think everyone learning to share outdoor rec areas is for the greater good.
flag S1L3NTR4GE
Posted: Jan 8, 2009 at 16:05 Quote
davemud wrote:
shondo wrote:
better?

ummm... I'm not sure. lol

I just never thought of us as being too nefarious. Sometimes the people have to push the powers that be in the direction things need to go for the greater good. I think everyone learning to share outdoor rec areas is for the greater good.
quit worring about being PC and ride your f*cking bike
flag davemud
Posted: Jan 8, 2009 at 16:08 Quote
Not only do I ride but I've built and maintained a lot of trail too. I plan to be out fixing a trail I ride now this summer and I'll be committing civil disobedience when I do it.

There's nothing to be gained by being belligerent if you really want to move the sport forward and increase its acceptance by the general public.

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.026913
Mobile Version of Website