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Reasons to not go to AXS

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flag onyxss
Posted: Nov 12, 2020 at 2:11 Quote
DHhack wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
Well of course there is always a counter argument or specific example that is the point. I could counter argue that most people that can afford AXS probably don't run it on a steel or even aluminium frame. I could also say changing an inner cable is a 5min job. The point is there is always two sides to the coin but what the mech guys are all saying is that AXS is not worth the cost to them to rectify issues that are either rare, minor or non existant. It's not like mechanical is better in every way but neither is AXS too so ultimately the deciding factor is cost, and at 3 x the price for an AXS mech than xtr or xx1 and 6x more than XT for most people it just doesn't make sense to buy it.

To you. It doesn’t make sense to you. Your metrics have nothing to do with what the market will bear.

Danzzz88 is right. It does make sense to him and vast majority of riders. If you look around you will see very little AXS deraileurs on bikes - because of the price in the first place. Every manufacturer knows that top-end groups are not his bread and butter, but entry and mid-range groups. (Shimano sells waaaay more Deore/XT/SLX groupsets than XTR). Top-end groups are more of a marketing tool to promote new technologies - first to rich/enthusiastic buyers, later they migrate this tech to mid and low groupsets. Because number of customers willing to pay groupset price in range of complete entry FS bike is very low. Very very low, waaay under 10%.
Thats why Danzzz and other same minded posters are right. Because market is telling you this fact. Otherwise i have no doubt that Wallmart bike buyers would have AXS too. But they don't. Because of the price Big Grin
flag JustAnotherRiderHere
Posted: Nov 12, 2020 at 2:56 Quote
onyxss wrote:
[ Because number of customers willing to pay groupset price in range of complete entry FS bike is very low. Very very low, waaay under 10%.



Then there are folks like me. I -used- to race road at a very high level. We got to ride the best, the equipment, in general, could not be blamed for our performance, as we were on the best we could ever wish to get.

Fast forward 30 years. I am old, broken, fat...but will not let my equipment be to blame for my performance. If I do not perform...I did not perform. I simply do not get to blame "less than pro caliber" equipment. Being new to MTN bikes (at almost 50) I used to blame my suspension for not keeping up with the "A" ride...I was right (it was a Recon). I changed to SC32 and DPS Evol, well the performance of the bike changed in a massive way - and, I lost the excuse that "I would been there but my shock......."

We are the dream market for companies, more so than Densits.
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 12, 2020 at 20:54 Quote
v7fmp wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
v7fmp wrote:


Maybe you should be more descriptive or detailed with your summary of parts that you didn't get on with, rather than a blanket statement of 'XYZ is shit'. It doesn't give any useful feedback and makes you come across as someone with little knowledge or experience, which by the sounds of it isn't the case, as you have stated you have tried lots of other forks.

I guess I was trying to highlight that a bit more info can go a long way to help someone make a decision if they are asking for help... which they are (albeit not about suspension forks as we go off on a different subject again).

But its not for me to tell you how to communicate or conduct yourself on a bike forum, so please ignore all my comments and feedback and do what you wish.

Anyway, back to talking about the subject matter... AXS.... I personally have never experienced an 'accidental' shift. my shifter is set up far enough away from my grip so that doesn't happen for me. But dependant on your setup, I guess it is possible.

We do understand now that you are not a fan, so probably don't need to keep creating hypothetical 'problems' that the AXS setup could cause, and let those who have or do run it share their feedback of real world, actual pro's & con's.

good stuff.
This isn't about forks so I give little importance on the subject of forks and even less how I come out to people,
now as far as hypothetical problems, it seems that overshifting that requires an amount of effort is an issue for some people, but accidentally actuating the shifter button twice when you are about to shift if you hit something in the trail is not possible? That thing is as soft as my rasberry control buttons, I asked the same question don't know how many times but still no answer, apart from the actuation mechanism with their flaws fo both what makes the Electronic 99% shift better than a top range sram der compared to the price difference. we still discuss how inappropriate my sense of humor or lack thereof is, but on the subject nada.
And fancy, latest tech etc are not an argument if in reality you don't get an advantage over the mechanical ones

indeed, this isn't about forks, and I have explained many times my reaction to your blanket 'shit' comment. But we have dealt with that, so lets not mention it again.

You are correct tho, your questions haven't been answered, so lets cover those to put them to bed....

accidentally actuating the shifter button twice when you are about to shift if you hit something in the trail is not possible - Not something I have ever had happen in the 18 plus months of owning AXS. And not something I have heard others mention. In theory it could happen if you have a combination of AXS paddle position, poor grip on the bars, unusual ergonomics.

That thing is as soft as my rasberry control buttons - I have no idea what this means. The paddle needs a certain amount of force to activate. Whilst it doesn't need moving far, it does need a positive push on it.

Electronic 99% shift better than a top range sram der compared to the price difference - I wouldn't say its 99% better, so cant agree with what someone else has said. If you had both X01 AXS and 'regular' X01, both brand new and setup, then you would struggle to see any real difference. But give it six months use, in the slop and mud and I am confident the AXS would still be shifting as well as it was when new, whereas the mechanical setup would probably need some TLC to still be running as smooth.

And without someone doing this back to back test (including you or I) then its all perceived or personal opinion.

And fancy, latest tech etc are not an argument if in reality you don't get an advantage over the mechanical ones - Again, this is personal opinion. I think it is an advantage over the mechanical setup. I have flawless shifting everytime I ride, without fail. Would I have experience the same with a mechanical setup, its hard to say, without a time machine and being able to recreate the last 18months worth of riding. But having had experience of a mechanical setup in the past, it has never always worked without fail. Maybe that's luck, maybe that's my maintenance schedule, no one can say.

again, from a personal level, I have enjoyed owning it, it has caused me zero issues and allowed me to continue to ride my bike in all conditions. And I would highly recommend it to anyone who was thinking about it.

I understand that you have your reservations about the system, and that's totally cool, but at least try and be a bit more open minded and constructive with your criticism of it.... or here is a thought, see if you can try and find a bike with it on and try it for yourself.

much love and enjoy the ride! Big Grin


The buttons are way softer than any mechanical shifter, if a mechanical can overshift other than being poorly set up then why your buttons can't be accidentally pushed? Both systems are exposed to the same conditions doing the exact same thing with identical arrangement and same principle. My usage of mechanical systems for 2 decades have served me just fine, when acting up was mostly a trimming of the barrel adjuster and finaly a new shifter cable, nothing to extreeme. I even replace cables once a year just in case, all in all, is what I said from start, you eliminate the shifter cable for the cost of a 100 shifter cables and adding electronic stuff that can act up, not yet but not unusual, and from there the thing suffers from all the other issues of the traditional rear mech, a low hanging, fragile and exposed system that is called to do a very precise job. So. Not better. The cable elimination is not an advancedment, eliminating the rear mech is the real challenge. The price though... Hard to swallow, as I had quite few mechs torn from my bike in the 2 decades I ride, and that alone adds up to much, for no gains.
flag v7fmp
FL
Posted: Nov 12, 2020 at 23:33 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
v7fmp wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:

This isn't about forks so I give little importance on the subject of forks and even less how I come out to people,
now as far as hypothetical problems, it seems that overshifting that requires an amount of effort is an issue for some people, but accidentally actuating the shifter button twice when you are about to shift if you hit something in the trail is not possible? That thing is as soft as my rasberry control buttons, I asked the same question don't know how many times but still no answer, apart from the actuation mechanism with their flaws fo both what makes the Electronic 99% shift better than a top range sram der compared to the price difference. we still discuss how inappropriate my sense of humor or lack thereof is, but on the subject nada.
And fancy, latest tech etc are not an argument if in reality you don't get an advantage over the mechanical ones

indeed, this isn't about forks, and I have explained many times my reaction to your blanket 'shit' comment. But we have dealt with that, so lets not mention it again.

You are correct tho, your questions haven't been answered, so lets cover those to put them to bed....

accidentally actuating the shifter button twice when you are about to shift if you hit something in the trail is not possible - Not something I have ever had happen in the 18 plus months of owning AXS. And not something I have heard others mention. In theory it could happen if you have a combination of AXS paddle position, poor grip on the bars, unusual ergonomics.

That thing is as soft as my rasberry control buttons - I have no idea what this means. The paddle needs a certain amount of force to activate. Whilst it doesn't need moving far, it does need a positive push on it.

Electronic 99% shift better than a top range sram der compared to the price difference - I wouldn't say its 99% better, so cant agree with what someone else has said. If you had both X01 AXS and 'regular' X01, both brand new and setup, then you would struggle to see any real difference. But give it six months use, in the slop and mud and I am confident the AXS would still be shifting as well as it was when new, whereas the mechanical setup would probably need some TLC to still be running as smooth.

And without someone doing this back to back test (including you or I) then its all perceived or personal opinion.

And fancy, latest tech etc are not an argument if in reality you don't get an advantage over the mechanical ones - Again, this is personal opinion. I think it is an advantage over the mechanical setup. I have flawless shifting everytime I ride, without fail. Would I have experience the same with a mechanical setup, its hard to say, without a time machine and being able to recreate the last 18months worth of riding. But having had experience of a mechanical setup in the past, it has never always worked without fail. Maybe that's luck, maybe that's my maintenance schedule, no one can say.

again, from a personal level, I have enjoyed owning it, it has caused me zero issues and allowed me to continue to ride my bike in all conditions. And I would highly recommend it to anyone who was thinking about it.

I understand that you have your reservations about the system, and that's totally cool, but at least try and be a bit more open minded and constructive with your criticism of it.... or here is a thought, see if you can try and find a bike with it on and try it for yourself.

much love and enjoy the ride! Big Grin


The buttons are way softer than any mechanical shifter, if a mechanical can overshift other than being poorly set up then why your buttons can't be accidentally pushed? Both systems are exposed to the same conditions doing the exact same thing with identical arrangement and same principle. My usage of mechanical systems for 2 decades have served me just fine, when acting up was mostly a trimming of the barrel adjuster and finaly a new shifter cable, nothing to extreeme. I even replace cables once a year just in case, all in all, is what I said from start, you eliminate the shifter cable for the cost of a 100 shifter cables and adding electronic stuff that can act up, not yet but not unusual, and from there the thing suffers from all the other issues of the traditional rear mech, a low hanging, fragile and exposed system that is called to do a very precise job. So. Not better. The cable elimination is not an advancedment, eliminating the rear mech is the real challenge. The price though... Hard to swallow, as I had quite few mechs torn from my bike in the 2 decades I ride, and that alone adds up to much, for no gains.

I think we are just going round in circles here. I have said you could potentially accidently shift, but I have never done it, and its not widely recognised as a problem. To be honest, I think you are the first one to ever bring it up. But you are talking from zero experience of AXS. you are just assuming or presuming what a possible issue is.

Whilst I agree that losing a cable isn't worth the asking price, but its so much more than that. lets remove the cost for a moment. you say the system has no advantage over a mechanical setup, then list a couple of issues of a mechanical setup. The need to replace cables or trim the shift via the barrel adjuster. Again, removing the price, that by default makes AXS 'better'.

But you seem to be hung up on the fact that AXS hasn't reinvented the wheel... which is never will, its just a different option for a drivetrain setup, albeit one that costs more than other options.

Clearly none of us who have used AXS will convince you (not that we want to), and that's fine, but as I have said many times before, the OP wanted real world advice and experience of the system, which they have received. Not some hypothetically rant from someone who hasn't used it or even tried to give it a go.

I don't really have much more to say on the subject, so I am gracefully bowing out. Probably going to go enjoy my AXS Razz
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 1:24 Quote
Well, I urge you to look a mtbr thread about the axs and tell me if no one had the issues I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even with various clamps, mech prodrudes quite more than conventionals. People also mentioned quite a few issues pairing with shifters, interfiering with HR monitors, stoped working suddenly and had to remove batteries mid ride to restart the damn thing, but other than being overpriced for what's offering is quite flawless because it shifts, well that's what suppose to do but it ain't flawless, it is overpriced and presents a new bunch of problems without solving any of the previous. I
flag JustAnotherRiderHere
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 4:59 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even..........I

This new paddle shifter thing confuses me.....saw it on a rumored wrbsite...
flag G-horseNoBrakes
O+
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 5:10 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
Well, I urge you to look a mtbr thread about the axs and tell me if no one had the issues I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even with various clamps, mech prodrudes quite more than conventionals. People also mentioned quite a few issues pairing with shifters, interfiering with HR monitors, stoped working suddenly and had to remove batteries mid ride to restart the damn thing, but other than being overpriced for what's offering is quite flawless because it shifts, well that's what suppose to do but it ain't flawless, it is overpriced and presents a new bunch of problems without solving any of the previous. I


Duuuuuuude, no one cares about your opinion thats based on what you read on the internet rather than real life experience of using AXS. Everyone can go read on mtbr and make up their own mind. You just sound bitter.
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 6:49 Quote
G-horseNoBrakes wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
Well, I urge you to look a mtbr thread about the axs and tell me if no one had the issues I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even with various clamps, mech prodrudes quite more than conventionals. People also mentioned quite a few issues pairing with shifters, interfiering with HR monitors, stoped working suddenly and had to remove batteries mid ride to restart the damn thing, but other than being overpriced for what's offering is quite flawless because it shifts, well that's what suppose to do but it ain't flawless, it is overpriced and presents a new bunch of problems without solving any of the previous. I


Duuuuuuude, no one cares about your opinion thats based on what you read on the internet rather than real life experience of using AXS. Everyone can go read on mtbr and make up their own mind. You just sound bitter.

Duuuude that's opinions and experience of people using axs duuuuude, and make up your mind, read or don't read what's on mtbr or pink bike or whatever, because that's what you do now. I might sound bitter to you but I can't stand people calling the damn thing flawless as it is not, and one or two people's personal experience might be the rule or the exeption but how you know?
I can definently form a good view on the subject when checking some facts about the product, like how the shifter doesn't mix nicely with brakes and grips as many people report they can't find a good position for it.
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 6:52 Quote
JustAnotherRiderHere wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even..........I

This new paddle shifter thing confuses me.....saw it on a rumored wrbsite...
You clearly missed that it can be programmed accordingly, what you failed to see is that many can't find a comfortable position due to it's size and shape, they tried various combinations of clamps but for a flawless premium priced system, well it sucks.
flag DHhack
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 6:55 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
JustAnotherRiderHere wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even..........I

This new paddle shifter thing confuses me.....saw it on a rumored wrbsite...
You clearly missed that it can be programmed accordingly, what you failed to see is that many can't find a comfortable position due to it's size and shape, they tried various combinations of clamps but for a flawless premium priced system, well it sucks.

From my days of selling really expensive things, people that spend the most whine the most.
flag JustAnotherRiderHere
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 6:57 Quote
[Quote="adespotoskyli"]

I did see that. The fact is I've heard a number of people complain about that also where is my current xx1 is quite adjustable certainly as compared to my former GX.⁹
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 6:58 Quote
Whait until you see the size of it...
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 14, 2020 at 9:36 Quote
I really like the 1st gen AXS paddle actually. It tucks up super tight on the bars near the lever so I can just reach over with my knuckle and shift up when I want. I have mine set up so the top button is a harder gear and the bottom one is easier. After a couple of rides I got used to the shape so it's really not a big deal. Plus you have the option of mounting the shifter to either a Matchmaker or regular handlebar clamp, with two different bolt holes on the shifter itself as well. If you can't find a comfortable position with all those options, you might have weird hands and be in the minority.
flag G-horseNoBrakes
O+
Posted: Nov 17, 2020 at 8:22 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
G-horseNoBrakes wrote:
adespotoskyli wrote:
Well, I urge you to look a mtbr thread about the axs and tell me if no one had the issues I wrote about, accidental shifting, up or down due to being quite sensitive, how many find the shape of both mech and shifter bulky, shifter is hard to position in a way that fits as good as cable shifters even with various clamps, mech prodrudes quite more than conventionals. People also mentioned quite a few issues pairing with shifters, interfiering with HR monitors, stoped working suddenly and had to remove batteries mid ride to restart the damn thing, but other than being overpriced for what's offering is quite flawless because it shifts, well that's what suppose to do but it ain't flawless, it is overpriced and presents a new bunch of problems without solving any of the previous. I


Duuuuuuude, no one cares about your opinion thats based on what you read on the internet rather than real life experience of using AXS. Everyone can go read on mtbr and make up their own mind. You just sound bitter.

Duuuude that's opinions and experience of people using axs duuuuude, and make up your mind, read or don't read what's on mtbr or pink bike or whatever, because that's what you do now. I might sound bitter to you but I can't stand people calling the damn thing flawless as it is not, and one or two people's personal experience might be the rule or the exeption but how you know?
I can definently form a good view on the subject when checking some facts about the product, like how the shifter doesn't mix nicely with brakes and grips as many people report they can't find a good position for it.


lol whatever. You're clearly talking bollox about products that you haven't used. so your simply regurgitating second hand info. You're not adding anything of value as your just going by what you have read. So until you've actually used AXS then no one cares about what your saying duuuuuuude.
By your logic your opinion on every other bike product is solid since its just what you've read other people saying with no real life experience of the product.

Just leave it to the folk who have AXS. I wont be replying to your drivel again so save yourself the bother.


Anyway, anyone tried the new paddle yet? I've got on perfectly well with the current one tbh but since its so cheap I think I'll order it to give it a try.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 17, 2020 at 9:25 Quote
I actually like the regular paddle. I don't think I will be trying the new paddle. I like how the current setup is able to tuck up close to the brake lever and handlebar.

 


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