Post Your Road Bikes (Read 1st post for guide)

PB Forum :: Road Cycling and Touring
Post Your Road Bikes (Read 1st post for guide)
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flag cmcrawfo
Posted: Jul 28, 2018 at 9:14 Quote
I am nowhere near being spun up on the advantages of tubeless in road applications, and my road riding skills can be described as "hack" (at best) ... but with the significant limitations in tire options, Its never been something I have really considered.

Is tubeless as awesome in road applications as it is in MTB applications? I was a tubeless MTB hold out until just a few years ago, I cant believe it took me so long to buy in.
flag seanondemand
Posted: Jul 28, 2018 at 19:52 Quote
cmcrawfo wrote:
I am nowhere near being spun up on the advantages of tubeless in road applications, and my road riding skills can be described as "hack" (at best) ... but with the significant limitations in tire options, Its never been something I have really considered.

Is tubeless as awesome in road applications as it is in MTB applications? I was a tubeless MTB hold out until just a few years ago, I cant believe it took me so long to buy in.
A nice reduction in wheel weight, and just like in MTB you can run lower pressure without losing out on speed (reduction in internal friction)
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 1:12 Quote
cmcrawfo wrote:
I am nowhere near being spun up on the advantages of tubeless in road applications, and my road riding skills can be described as "hack" (at best) ... but with the significant limitations in tire options, Its never been something I have really considered.

Is tubeless as awesome in road applications as it is in MTB applications? I was a tubeless MTB hold out until just a few years ago, I cant believe it took me so long to buy in.
No... it's nowhere near as advantageous on the road as it is in the dirt. Tubeless doesn't really work well for high pressure applications and to make it work well, they have to make a lot of compromises in the tire casing. There's really no advantage on the road except less flats... which, I just don't get nearly enough of to justify the limitations.
flag seraph
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 2:24 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
cmcrawfo wrote:
I am nowhere near being spun up on the advantages of tubeless in road applications, and my road riding skills can be described as "hack" (at best) ... but with the significant limitations in tire options, Its never been something I have really considered.

Is tubeless as awesome in road applications as it is in MTB applications? I was a tubeless MTB hold out until just a few years ago, I cant believe it took me so long to buy in.
No... it's nowhere near as advantageous on the road as it is in the dirt. Tubeless doesn't really work well for high pressure applications and to make it work well, they have to make a lot of compromises in the tire casing. There's really no advantage on the road except less flats... which, I just don't get nearly enough of to justify the limitations.

Being able to run less tire pressure creates less deflection when encountering obstacles on the road. At 60 psi, my 35c tires roll over pretty much any small bumps and divots that would cause a tire with more psi to bounce and slow the bike down.

I only run about 1oz of sealant in each tire, I don't expect to seal any flats. I mainly like the system for the light weight and ride quality.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 3:30 Quote
Guarantee you don't ride far enough hard enough for that to matter, at all. But, if it helps you justify limited options and compromised ride... carry on.
flag seanondemand
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 7:07 Quote
seraph wrote:

Being able to run less tire pressure creates less deflection when encountering obstacles on the road. At 60 psi, my 35c tires roll over pretty much any small bumps and divots that would cause a tire with more psi to bounce and slow the bike down.

I only run about 1oz of sealant in each tire, I don't expect to seal any flats. I mainly like the system for the light weight and ride quality.
seconded, the ride quality is ridiculous
flag seraph
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 11:20 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Guarantee you don't ride far enough hard enough for that to matter, at all. But, if it helps you justify limited options and compromised ride... carry on.

Excuse me? How the f*ck do you know how hard or far I ride? Just because you've got a bug in your ass over road tubeless doesn't mean it's not a good system.
flag cmcrawfo
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 11:21 Quote
seraph wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Guarantee you don't ride far enough hard enough for that to matter, at all. But, if it helps you justify limited options and compromised ride... carry on.

Excuse me? How the f*ck do you know how hard or far I ride? Just because you've got a bug in your ass over road tubeless doesn't mean it's not a good system.

photo
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 11:35 Quote
seraph wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Guarantee you don't ride far enough hard enough for that to matter, at all. But, if it helps you justify limited options and compromised ride... carry on.

Excuse me? How the f*ck do you know how hard or far I ride? Just because you've got a bug in your ass over road tubeless doesn't mean it's not a good system.
Your name isn't among the UCI riders... you don't f*cking ride hard enough or fast enough to worry about shit like hysteresis, particularly when you're making a blind assumption that your shitty selection of tubeless tires offers ANY f*cking tires in comparable quality to the huge array of awesome clinchers available.

So, "just because you've got a bug in your ass" in favor of road tubeless and aren't smart enough to understand the science behind the claims in reality, doesn't mean you're a f*cking star rider. You like tubeless, that's why you ride it. It is not better, not in any way, than road clinchers. Stop trying to pretend there's a shitload of advantages when there simply aren't.
flag seraph
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 11:38 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
seraph wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Guarantee you don't ride far enough hard enough for that to matter, at all. But, if it helps you justify limited options and compromised ride... carry on.

Excuse me? How the f*ck do you know how hard or far I ride? Just because you've got a bug in your ass over road tubeless doesn't mean it's not a good system.
Your name isn't among the UCI riders... you don't f*cking ride hard enough or fast enough to worry about shit like hysteresis, particularly when you're making a blind assumption that your shitty selection of tubeless tires offers ANY f*cking tires in comparable quality to the huge array of awesome clinchers available.

So, "just because you've got a bug in your ass" in favor of road tubeless and aren't smart enough to understand the science behind the claims in reality, doesn't mean you're a f*cking star rider. You like tubeless, that's why you ride it. It is not better, not in any way, than road clinchers. Stop trying to pretend there's a shitload of advantages when there simply aren't.

You don't have to be pushing tons of watts to benefit from a reduction in deflection. I'm sorry that you don't understand the science behind it. Our roads around here are rough and being able to run lower PSI while still maintaining momentum is a major benefit. We sell a lot of customers on tubeless and all of them are enjoying its benefits.

It's ok if you don't like or want tubeless, but that doesn't mean you have to tear down others who do like it. Can't just leave well enough alone, huh?
flag sherbet
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 11:45 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Guarantee you don't ride far enough hard enough for that to matter, at all. But, if it helps you justify limited options and compromised ride... carry on.

Context and opinions aside, this was a pretty chip on shoulder thing to say. It's all good to tell people how you feel, but it would be pretty rad to see you do it perhaps a little more tactfully.

There's no mods on the forums anymore these days, so it really is up to us to be reasonable with one another. Lets do that! Salute
flag cmcrawfo
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 11:55 Quote
I only use Dugast, hand sewn, Silk Tubulars.

I did a charity ride with Axel Merckx once, so I think I know what I am talking about.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 13:15 Quote
seraph wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
seraph wrote:


Excuse me? How the f*ck do you know how hard or far I ride? Just because you've got a bug in your ass over road tubeless doesn't mean it's not a good system.
Your name isn't among the UCI riders... you don't f*cking ride hard enough or fast enough to worry about shit like hysteresis, particularly when you're making a blind assumption that your shitty selection of tubeless tires offers ANY f*cking tires in comparable quality to the huge array of awesome clinchers available.

So, "just because you've got a bug in your ass" in favor of road tubeless and aren't smart enough to understand the science behind the claims in reality, doesn't mean you're a f*cking star rider. You like tubeless, that's why you ride it. It is not better, not in any way, than road clinchers. Stop trying to pretend there's a shitload of advantages when there simply aren't.

You don't have to be pushing tons of watts to benefit from a reduction in deflection. I'm sorry that you don't understand the science behind it. Our roads around here are rough and being able to run lower PSI while still maintaining momentum is a major benefit. We sell a lot of customers on tubeless and all of them are enjoying its benefits.

It's ok if you don't like or want tubeless, but that doesn't mean you have to tear down others who do like it. Can't just leave well enough alone, huh?
1. The reality is you're talking about a marginal gain to a marginal gain, that's fact. In your riding, you will not benefit from the minuscule gain... nor would I in mine or really anyone who isn't actively racing and even then, would only justify the change given acceptable tire choice.

2. The science huh... you mean like the science that clearly states an increase in casing stiffness, such as what's necessary to make a tire tubeless, negates the gains from the friction lost between tube and tire and, in many cases, leaves tubeless behind high end traditional clincher setup running at higher pressures? Is that the science I'm having a tough time? Yes, in a lab you can take clincher setup 'X' and compare it to a tubeless setup and say it's better... but, if you take a high end clincher, latex tube setup and rerun those tests the clinchers still often win. Until there's sufficient tire selection to drive more competition, the only advantages to tubeless are personal preference... save your sales speech for work.

3. No one is tearing anyone down... before you have a cry and a meltdown about your feelings, take a deep breath and accept that I simply stated a fact. I doubt anybody on pinkbike rides far enough fast enough for hysteresis to matter, don't take it personally. Shit I said exactly the same thing about myself a few days ago talking about the years I rode tubs, don't be so eager to be a victim. You weren't attacked... I called you out for blindly repeating a marketing claim. Nobody said you're an a*shole for liking tubeless. If that's your preference, enjoy it. But don't pretend you're saving a ton of energy in reduced hysteresis and it's making you ride better or stronger or further or anything else.
flag seraph
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 13:21 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
seraph wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:

Your name isn't among the UCI riders... you don't f*cking ride hard enough or fast enough to worry about shit like hysteresis, particularly when you're making a blind assumption that your shitty selection of tubeless tires offers ANY f*cking tires in comparable quality to the huge array of awesome clinchers available.

So, "just because you've got a bug in your ass" in favor of road tubeless and aren't smart enough to understand the science behind the claims in reality, doesn't mean you're a f*cking star rider. You like tubeless, that's why you ride it. It is not better, not in any way, than road clinchers. Stop trying to pretend there's a shitload of advantages when there simply aren't.

You don't have to be pushing tons of watts to benefit from a reduction in deflection. I'm sorry that you don't understand the science behind it. Our roads around here are rough and being able to run lower PSI while still maintaining momentum is a major benefit. We sell a lot of customers on tubeless and all of them are enjoying its benefits.

It's ok if you don't like or want tubeless, but that doesn't mean you have to tear down others who do like it. Can't just leave well enough alone, huh?
1. The reality is you're talking about a marginal gain to a marginal gain, that's fact. In your riding, you will not benefit from the minuscule gain... nor would I in mine or really anyone who isn't actively racing and even then, would only justify the change given acceptable tire choice.

2. The science huh... you mean like the science that clearly states an increase in casing stiffness, such as what's necessary to make a tire tubeless, negates the gains from the friction lost between tube and tire and, in many cases, leaves tubeless behind high end traditional clincher setup running at higher pressures? Is that the science I'm having a tough time? Yes, in a lab you can take clincher setup 'X' and compare it to a tubeless setup and say it's better... but, if you take a high end clincher, latex tube setup and rerun those tests the clinchers still often win. Until there's sufficient tire selection to drive more competition, the only advantages to tubeless are personal preference... save your sales speech for work.

3. No one is tearing anyone down... before you have a cry and a meltdown about your feelings, take a deep breath and accept that I simply stated a fact. I doubt anybody on pinkbike rides far enough fast enough for hysteresis to matter, don't take it personally. Shit I said exactly the same thing about myself a few days ago talking about the years I rode tubs, don't be so eager to be a victim. You weren't attacked... I called you out for blindly repeating a marketing claim. Nobody said you're an a*shole for liking tubeless. If that's your preference, enjoy it. But don't pretend you're saving a ton of energy in reduced hysteresis and it's making you ride better or stronger or further or anything else.

No you stated an opinion and tried to pass it off as fact. Which I realize is really common for you. But you gotta understand that it looks to me like you're coming in here and shitting all over the forum like you're the god of bikes. Like your knowledge is absolute and anything you say is law. Which is not a fact.

Fact: I benefit from road tubeless. It offers a better ride quality than any tubed system I've used.

How many tubeless road systems have you ridden, and for how long? I've put over 500 miles on my bike with tubeless tires. Its benefits are noticeable to me, and that's all that matters.

Seriously, if you don't like road tubeless that's fine, but don't try to tell me that what I feeling when I'm riding isn't real or true.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jul 29, 2018 at 13:31 Quote
seraph wrote:
No you stated an opinion and tried to pass it off as fact. Which I realize is really common for you. But you gotta understand that it looks to me like you're coming in here and shitting all over the forum like you're the god of bikes. Like your knowledge is absolute and anything you say is law. Which is not a fact.

Fact: I benefit from road tubeless. It offers a better ride quality than any tubed system I've used.

How many tubeless road systems have you ridden, and for how long? I've put over 500 miles on my bike with tubeless tires. Its benefits are noticeable to me, and that's all that matters.

Seriously, if you don't like road tubeless that's fine, but don't try to tell me that what I feeling when I'm riding isn't real or true.
That's cute... no, it's not an opinion that you don't ride hard or fast enough to need to consider hysteresis in your tire choices. That's a fact.

Hysteresis is real, but you clearly don't understand that the application of variables to experimentation changes the results. Tire manufacturers who want to sell you tubeless tires will tell you all about the advantages in one lab condition but ignore the realities of the dozens of other conditions where their product wasn't superior. Your adherence to blind consumerism and ignorance based belief in the marketing material you've read doesn't constitute fact... sorry I had to be the one to rain on that parade for you.

Ride quality is subjective, you're welcome to prefer tubeless. But, you're not welcome to make up your own facts to support that subjective belief.

 


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