How do AM hardtails climb?

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How do AM hardtails climb?
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flag Wayne-Mitchell
Posted: Jan 23, 2014 at 14:12 Quote
Hello

I race downhill and ride road bikes a lot but this week I went to bike park Wales with a borrowed XC hardtail. I loved the climb to the top and thee way back down was fun but I love the way a slacker bike feels on the descents. What I would like to know is how would a bike like a orange crush feel on the long climbs? Would I get a bad back from the ride position? Would it be a lot slower in the climbs than a full on XC bike?

Thank you
flag WasabiJim
Posted: Jan 23, 2014 at 19:35 Quote
I don't know much about that Orange Crush bike in particular, but it shouldn't take much to find a modern bike that will tick your boxes. Of course it will be a compromise compared to a the ability of a pure XC bike but a good HT will give you a pretty good balance, plus you can always play with things like stem, bar width, seat post (front to rear) off set, and even adjustable fork travel to tweak it towards what you're after.

I find its generally XC orientated bike that stress my back cause you're more stretched out and in a position that makes it harder for your legs to directly support all your weight.
flag Big-Tex
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 0:51 Quote
Wayne-Mitchell wrote:
What I would like to know is how would a bike like a orange crush feel on the long climbs

Doesn't matter what you ride, long climbs suck, loosing some weight, hill repeats, and hardening the f*ck up are the best things you can do to prepare for long climbs.
flag thepimpmessiah
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 1:26 Quote
Sticking long forks on hardtails designed for short forks makes them climb really badly.

Long forks on a hardtail designed for long forks can climb very well - beware the slack seat angle and high bottom bracket of frames with over long forks.
flag Wayne-Mitchell
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 2:26 Quote
Big tex? I routinely ride 60-70 miles on my road bike. I placed 3rd in my last triathlon and I got to the top of the 4.6K beast of burden climb 5 mins before my peers a few days ago in the XC bike. Manning up isn't the snag trust me I'm looking for sensible advice from adults not children.
Thanks Jim. I think I may hire a AM hard tail and see how it feels compared to the XC rig. Climbing is my main priority. Can anyone recommend a do it all bike with a bias towards climbing? Short travel AM bike that would still feel good around a pump track for instance?
flag deli-hustler
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 2:39 Quote
I ride a Transition TransAM with Marzocchi 44's 150/120 travel forks, and it climbs well, maybe not as good as a full on xc bike. Drop the travel, flip the lockout and stamp on the pedals and off it goes .I'm fat and unfit and climbing isn't bad. On tne other side of the hill, I spent a day on the uplift at bpw and it was a lot of fun to ride.
flag thepimpmessiah
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 3:52 Quote
Here is mine; a Ragley Blue Pig. If you ride a DH bike something like this is a lot of fun.

photo

The 36 forks are reduced from 160mm to 130mm so as not to raise the bottom bracket and slacken the seat angle so it still climbs techy stuff and rails the berms.

Using a stiff fork like the Fox 36 adds some weight over a 32/Rev but pays off in the gnar and slop where this thing can really be thrown about without sawing at the bars to fight a noodle up front.

Bikes like this are never going to be quicker than a similar weight XC full-suss bike, but they are a freakin hoot to ride... there is something magical about throwing a hardtail around where you really should know better.

I also think riding a long travel hardtail in tricky terrain is good for the skillz! Batman
flag js-mountain-biking
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 5:43 Quote
I'm currently riding a on one evo 2 and I have a 65.7 degree head angle, it climbs really well but on the descents it a monster, rails turns and feels great in jumps, not to mention it is very forgiving on the rough stuff, defiantly recommend checking their bikes out for a hardcore hardtail!
flag WasabiJim
Posted: Jan 24, 2014 at 16:14 Quote
Wayne-Mitchell wrote:
Big tex? I routinely ride 60-70 miles on my road bike. I placed 3rd in my last triathlon and I got to the top of the 4.6K beast of burden climb 5 mins before my peers a few days ago in the XC bike. Manning up isn't the snag trust me I'm looking for sensible advice from adults not children.
Thanks Jim. I think I may hire a AM hard tail and see how it feels compared to the XC rig. Climbing is my main priority. Can anyone recommend a do it all bike with a bias towards climbing? Short travel AM bike that would still feel good around a pump track for instance?

I'm not sure if you'll find a bike like this straight off the floor, I find everything (the feel, geo, parts spec, etc ) revolves around the trave, I'm sure if they wanted to they could make a 160mm HT that climbs brilliantly. But a typical 120-130mm 'trail bike' (the term marketing uses as the grade between XC and AM) with a solid fork can easily be built into what you want with a wheels upgrade and control tweaks to for burly stuff that wont compromise its climbing prowess. I think it would be harder with a typical burly AM bike and putting it on a diet to come down to what you want. Starting with a trail bike you could even do with just 1 ring up front and still smash climbs, but probably not so with an AM ride.
Sorry I can't recommend a specific bike, I've been researching steel 29er HT frame and there's only so much my grey matter can handle
flag Wayne-Mitchell
Posted: Jan 25, 2014 at 12:22 Quote
Thank you. I'm going to test an orange crush at a demo day and hire a 29er XC bike from BPW and see how they compare.
flag Clarkeh
Posted: Jan 25, 2014 at 16:34 Quote
Just get a longer travel fork that is adjustable, like a Talas, run it in 160mm for the downhill and then 120 for the up.
flag Big-Tex
Posted: Jan 25, 2014 at 20:08 Quote
I've been looking at Commencal's Meta HT 2, pretty solid looking bike with some good specs for under 2k, that might be up your ally. http://store.seven02distribution.com/2014-Meta-AM-HT-2_p_154.html

I'd go with a 140mm fork, seems like a good compromise between 130mm and 150mm.
flag Clarkeh
Posted: Jan 25, 2014 at 20:25 Quote
Big-Tex wrote:
I've been looking at Commencal's Meta HT 2, pretty solid looking bike with some good specs for under 2k, that might be up your ally. http://store.seven02distribution.com/2014-Meta-AM-HT-2_p_154.html

I'd go with a 140mm fork, seems like a good compromise between 130mm and 150mm.
Yeah man, that thing looks great.
flag Wayne-Mitchell
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 at 3:49 Quote
The thing is, putting a longer travel fork on an XC bike does not make it an all mountain bike.
The ride position on an XC bike puts you over the front so climbs are more comfortable. This is achieved with a higher centre of gravity and a high BB. You can tel the difference straight away when you get of an XC on to a AM. An AM encourages you to hang of the back while descending where are a XC puts you over the front. I find this is felt the most over jumps and step downs. My mates SC nomad just feels like a downhill bike that can climb.
flag mallorcadave
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 at 8:47 Quote
My Ragley Mmmbop
Here's mine a Ragley Mmm Bop basically an alloy Blue Pig mk1/2 climbs a treat with the steep seat angle moving your weight forward when it get really steep a travel adjust fork helps in taming the front end which can wander about abit if left at 140mm. Goes downhill like you wouldnt believe possible! I'm always suprising the lycra clad locals on full suspension bikes!
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