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Brake dilemma

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Brake dilemma
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flag TranceLov3
Posted: Feb 5, 2016 at 13:31 Quote
So I'm having a bit of a dilemma right now.

Currently I have Formula r0 2012 brakes installed on my downhill bike, but they've been more of a trouble for me so far rather than "huge braking power, low weight etc", that reviews hype them up to. My discs never ran 100% freely through the calipers, constant rubbing and the performance hasn't been good what so ever (compared to my friends shimano xt's). I bought the bike second hand and haven't bled the brakes which might be the reason it doesn't have too good braking or oily brake pads. I recently got my rotor warped and since formula has so small pad clearence the wheel hardly spins now (bending it back won't do it anymore). Also the bleed procedure on formulas seems so complicated compared to shimanos.

So now I have 2 decisions, buy new rotors and pads for my formulas and probably let LBS do the bleed OR buy Shimano Zee's as a replacement and sell r0's.

I would keep r0's but the tight pad clearence worries me that even a smaller bump to my new rotors would make it rub and stop me again, possibly requiring new rotors again. But at the same time I've never felt the brakes real capabilities due to the forementioned problems, maybe they are real good.

On the other hand now there are Zee's - should be great performance due to quad pistons, xt's felt real nice so those can't be worse? The bleed process seems a lot easier and pad clearence compared to r0's is huge, meaning a tiny warp wouldn't make the bike un-useable. Yeah, it's a bit heavier and doesn't have tool-free reach nor free-stroke adjust but I'm willing to sacrifice these to finally get a bit of peace of mind knowing that when I push my bike out of the shed, it will work great.

My first hydraulic disc brake was a crappy tektro one and the r0's are my second but work like tektro which doesn't make any sense comparing the prices so the best brake I've really felt so far are the xt's (a reference point I guess) as far as performance goes. In theory r0's should be even better.

I hope that after reading this huge amount of text you understand my problem. Which option should I go for? If anyone has experience with both shimanos and formulas, I'd love to hear because right now I can't decide if I should choose the r0's and hopefully unlock their real potential whilst risking with the tight pad placement or take the heavier, hopefully more problem free Zee's whilst giving up on some minor user friendly features.

Cheers!
flag wblh
Posted: Feb 5, 2016 at 14:01 Quote
yip zees or Saints you wont be disappointed, great power good modulation and easy to maintain
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Feb 5, 2016 at 14:06 Quote
You aren't alone in your formula brake experience. Many forum goers and oline reviewers love them but real world riders are usually less then impressed with them for the reasons you described.

I would be looking into either a set of saint/zee's or Sram Guides depending on how you like your levers to feel.
flag DrOzone
Posted: Feb 6, 2016 at 6:25 Quote
If you want to spend more time biking- buy shimano brakes

If you want to spend more time fixing brakes while ironically telling everyone else why your brakes are better because they are x% lighter/ use dot fluid/ more surface area/ modulation blah blah blah then buy any other brand.

I take the point that SRAM brakes have improved but the bar wasn't exactly high- lets be honest, they couldn't have made them much worse- well they could, I guess they could have made them so they never worked properly:P

I see your dilema- throw the formula crap in the bin or sell it- well, there are plenty of people out there that think the world is flat and likewise lots of people who think formula brakes are awesome so I say go for the latter- sell but I'd get shimano brakes first Big Grin
flag TranceLov3
Posted: Feb 6, 2016 at 13:15 Quote
I guess Zee's it is then. Thanks everyone!
flag smuggly
Posted: Feb 6, 2016 at 18:24 Quote
So you've bought second RO's which don't work great, they haven't been bled, your using a warped rotor and the pads might be contaminated? and people are concluding that formula brakes are substandard and buy shimano... pinkbike forums are weird!

Maybe before spending enough money to buy new brakes, spend some time and give them some TLC to get them working as they should be.

Bleed the RO's properly, it's not hard, pinkbike has a tech tuesday on how to do this correctly. You attached two syringes, push fluid from bottom to top, angle the lever to ensure no air is in the system, its that simple. Well it's not, but getting a perfect bleed to an almost perfect bleed makes a massive difference to how well they work.

Put some new pads on them and wear them in as per the instructions on the formula website - correct wear in is more important than people realise.

Throw out warped rotor, they're terrible on any disc brake. Formula RO's don't have narrow clearance, its one of the things they improved over the T1's. My only issue is the stock formula rotors, while light, do warp easy, I prefer hope or shimano rotors.

Shimano brakes aren't better, just different, less power, worse modulation, lever throw that changes regularly, bite point adjustment that doesn't work....

I"m one of those formula fanboys, got three sets of RO's over the last 3-4 years, awesome brake, they have been 100% reliable for me, tried saints, sold them. Would love to try MT7's, but the cost is just a little to much trial.
flag TranceLov3
Posted: Feb 7, 2016 at 0:37 Quote
I'm not saying formulas are junk because I might have bad pads or air in the system, they're a lot of hussle because of the tight pad placement and no, my version quite definitely doesn't have the increased pad placement, I remember reading from somewhere it came later (unless around a .5 of a mm is a big pad clearence with a straight disc from either side, setting up your calipers straight is a nightmare because you can't even properly see where the gap is and where it isn't).

I'm sure they might be nice when they work, but if they don't then getting stuff fixed without throwing money is tedious and difficult.
flag smuggly
Posted: Feb 7, 2016 at 14:29 Quote
Getting the caliper straight, take out pads, retract pistons and line the rotor up with the caliper, not the pads. Doing it using the pads as a guide, or even grabbing the lever to depress the pads onto the rotor is the fast and dodgy way of doing it.

The pads will then center properly, if they don't you have a sticky piston that needs a little lube.
flag jonus216
Posted: Feb 9, 2016 at 10:06 Quote
smuggly wrote:
Getting the caliper straight, take out pads, retract pistons and line the rotor up with the caliper, not the pads. Doing it using the pads as a guide, or even grabbing the lever to depress the pads onto the rotor is the fast and dodgy way of doing it.

The pads will then center properly, if they don't you have a sticky piston that needs a clean up with isopropyl alcohol and qtips.
flag lifeofloon
O+
Posted: Feb 9, 2016 at 10:26 Quote
smuggly wrote:
So you've bought second RO's which don't work great, they haven't been bled, your using a warped rotor and the pads might be contaminated? and people are concluding that formula brakes are substandard and buy shimano... pinkbike forums are weird!

Maybe before spending enough money to buy new brakes, spend some time and give them some TLC to get them working as they should be.

Bleed the RO's properly, it's not hard, pinkbike has a tech tuesday on how to do this correctly. You attached two syringes, push fluid from bottom to top, angle the lever to ensure no air is in the system, its that simple. Well it's not, but getting a perfect bleed to an almost perfect bleed makes a massive difference to how well they work.

Put some new pads on them and wear them in as per the instructions on the formula website - correct wear in is more important than people realise.

Throw out warped rotor, they're terrible on any disc brake. Formula RO's don't have narrow clearance, its one of the things they improved over the T1's. My only issue is the stock formula rotors, while light, do warp easy, I prefer hope or shimano rotors.

Shimano brakes aren't better, just different, less power, worse modulation, lever throw that changes regularly, bite point adjustment that doesn't work....

I"m one of those formula fanboys, got three sets of RO's over the last 3-4 years, awesome brake, they have been 100% reliable for me, tried saints, sold them. Would love to try MT7's, but the cost is just a little to much trial.

Over 750 hard AM trail miles on my RO in their first year with no issues. Replaced both sets of pads because I wore them out and replaced the rotors (because my awesome wife got me the red two piece for Christmas). They blow my XT's out of the water when it comes to power and sensitivity.
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