Brake Upgrade needed

PB Forum :: Downhill
Brake Upgrade needed
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flag shwinn8
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 7, 2017 at 8:49 Quote
After multiple bleeding sessions by me and the LBS, new rotors and new pads I've come to the end with the Shimano SLX and XT that came on my Jedi. The levers both feel like garbage. Very squishy and no power. The Hope Tech 3 V4 was recommended to me. I've done some google'ing and people seem to like them and like the easy "car like" way they are bled. I've also looked at the Hayes Prime Pro's... I just don't know.. decisions decisions...
flag Painhawk
Posted: Aug 7, 2017 at 9:17 Quote
I run the Hope Tech 3 V4S brakes and am very happy with them. Reliable, powerful, linear and crucially they're rebuildable. They also look fantastic, and lately they have dropped somewhat in price.

My best buddy runs the new Code RSC, and he's loving them, but no word on reliability yet.
flag Ploutre
Posted: Aug 8, 2017 at 6:03 Quote
If you have the budget for the V4, then definitely go for it.

I don't know what's the thing about the Hayes, it poped like 2 or 3 times on this forum over the past week or so... They look ok, but I wouldn't put them ahead of a set of V4.

In case the budget isn't big enough for the Hope, definitely check the 2nd hand market for them (even Tech EVO V4, same caliper but previous lever design, which still works just fine). They're super tough and will easily last through multiple owners. And in case something's wrong, rebuild kits are available for quite cheap, and they're easy to work with.
flag adrennan
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 8, 2017 at 8:21 Quote
saints or zees. you wont be disappointed and you will save money compared to hope
flag Ploutre
Posted: Aug 8, 2017 at 8:40 Quote
adrennan wrote:
saints or zees. you wont be disappointed and you will save money compared to hope

Shimano brakes are definitely not for the people picky about brakes and brake lever feel (I've had 3 sets of Saints and 2 sets of Tech3 V4 on my bikes over the years)

Depending on how you grab the brakes on Shimano brakes (so far I have yet to find a set that doesn't have this issue), slowly or a quick dab, the stroke will change. No matter how well you bleed them, even out of the box, bled from the top, from the bottom, upside down, ... It just changes. And to me that's a massive deal breaker. And also the fact it's a MASSIVE pain in the arse to get any spare parts from Shimano (the usual response is "buy a new caliper/master cylinder").

Power was good, didn't have problems with heat, pad alignment was super hard to get right with the stock finned pads, and bleeding was dodgy. You could not know whether the brake was fully bled or not, and the hose-over-bleed-nipple is in my book a big no ... so easy to put a bit too much pressure on the seringe and there you go, mineral oil all over the bike/floor

So no, as you probably have guessed, I'm definitely not a fan of Shimano brakes lol

On the other hand, I won't say the V4s are perfect! Sticky pistons, not as aggressive as some other brakes, expensive but in my book, they're far better.
flag shwinn8
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 8, 2017 at 9:31 Quote
after this experience it's safe to say I'm not going to be replacing the shimano's with different shimano's.
flag Aaronz25RS
Posted: Aug 9, 2017 at 6:44 Quote
I run Magura (Marta SL) on my DH sled, they're from 08, have never bled them, never done anything besides replace pads and adjust the lever.. They are considered an enduro brake..

Excellent power and modulation, havent faded them yet (in Michigan so take that into account) on 200mm rotors. .

Maybe you're on the brakes too much?
flag shwinn8
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 9, 2017 at 9:40 Quote
Aaronz25RS wrote:
I run Magura (Marta SL) on my DH sled, they're from 08, have never bled them, never done anything besides replace pads and adjust the lever.. They are considered an enduro brake..

Excellent power and modulation, havent faded them yet (in Michigan so take that into account) on 200mm rotors. .

Maybe you're on the brakes too much?

they feel like junk when not riding. I can squeeze the levers to the handle bars with moderate force
flag shwinn8
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 9, 2017 at 9:49 Quote
I've played with Reach adjustments with no change

this is where the lever stops with no real pressure on the lever:
photo

with moderate pressure the lever almost hits the handle bar:
photo
flag AzMonster249
Posted: Aug 9, 2017 at 11:16 Quote
I'm going the Hope Tech V4 route Salute
flag Dickiescbb
Posted: Aug 10, 2017 at 9:30 Quote
AzMonster249 wrote:
I'm going the Hope Tech V4 route Salute

sick looking brakes my buddy rides them. I myself ride the SRAM Guide RSC brakes with Avid code calipers working really well for me
flag cerebroside
O+
Posted: Aug 10, 2017 at 10:13 Quote
shwinn8 wrote:
I've played with Reach adjustments with no change

this is where the lever stops with no real pressure on the lever:

with moderate pressure the lever almost hits the handle bar:

Assuming they're bled right, you can overfill to get a way firmer lever feel. At the end of the bleed before you take the filler thing off the master cylinder just squeeze the levers a few times to push the pistons in a bit. I usually do 3 pulls from fully retracted, but YMMV.

If you don't want to bleed them again you can probably just take the pads out, but make sure you have enough fluid in them.

Edit: I have to do this with all my Shimano brakes or I get the same issue you do. Hate the feel and long throw.
flag shwinn8
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 10, 2017 at 12:18 Quote
cerebroside wrote:
shwinn8 wrote:
I've played with Reach adjustments with no change

this is where the lever stops with no real pressure on the lever:

with moderate pressure the lever almost hits the handle bar:

Assuming they're bled right, you can overfill to get a way firmer lever feel. At the end of the bleed before you take the filler thing off the master cylinder just squeeze the levers a few times to push the pistons in a bit. I usually do 3 pulls from fully retracted, but YMMV.

If you don't want to bleed them again you can probably just take the pads out, but make sure you have enough fluid in them.

Edit: I have to do this with all my Shimano brakes or I get the same issue you do. Hate the feel and long throw.

thank you for the advice on bleeding. even with the bleeding the shop and I have done, with a kung fu jerk off grip there's still not a whole lot of clamping strength. it's like riding with anti lock death brakes
flag cerebroside
O+
Posted: Aug 10, 2017 at 14:12 Quote
shwinn8 wrote:
thank you for the advice on bleeding. even with the bleeding the shop and I have done, with a kung fu jerk off grip there's still not a whole lot of clamping strength. it's like riding with anti lock death brakes

Yeah that trick will just help with feel, not power (unless you have the reach dialed down and they literally pull to the bars).

I just bought a set of Zees to get more power, but I wouldn't call my XTs or SLXs dangerously weak either. Kinda sounds like the pads are contaminated or not bedded in, but if you're sure that's not the problem then who knows.
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