Onyx Vesper Hub Problems

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flag niconj
Posted: Dec 20, 2023 at 0:40 Quote
Screenshot from my video of the Tairinwheels Shogun hub*. This may be an option for those wanting a silent hub with a 5.5° (O-Chainlike) engagement.

Tairin Shogun weight
Tairin Shogun weight

Yes. I have ridden the Onyx Vesper and it worked fine. I had some sort of pedal kickback issue though that could only be remedied with a different wheel in the same bike.

*english subtitles are available.
flag privateer-wheels
Posted: Jan 1, 2024 at 9:36 Quote
niconj wrote:
Screenshot from my video of the Tairinwheels Shogun hub*. This may be an option for those wanting a silent hub with a 5.5° (O-Chainlike) engagement.

Yes. I have ridden the Onyx Vesper and it worked fine. I had some sort of pedal kickback issue though that could only be remedied with a different wheel in the same bike.

*english subtitles are available.

If you have a bike that is prone to pedal kickback, fewer POE (or higher number of degrees before engagement) will not eliminate kick-back, it will just lessen the frequency. Every so often, you'll have pawls or ratchet close to being engaged as your suspension actuates, and you'll get kickback. In other words, you are not always 5.5 degrees from engagement, you are somewhere between 0 and 5.5 degrees. Something like a Hydra you are somewhere between 0 and 0.52 degrees. The closer to zero you are, the more likely you are to feel kickback, and the wider the range/float between POE, the less likely you will be close to zero when your suspension actuates, and the less likely you are to incur pedal kickback.

O-chain gives you some cushion after your drive train engages, so you are never likely to feel kickback if it exists for you. No hub gives you this, so I don't think it's fair to call Tairin hubs "o-chainlike". I would say that's inaccurate, and a bit of a misrepresentation/misinformation. DT likes to use this same/similar bogus argument to defend their rubbish engagement hubs as well.

That said, I quite like Tairin. I have built many of their rims, and have been keeping an eye on their hub development for several years, and though I've not built with them as of yet, I do think they look quite slick.
flag niconj
Posted: Jan 1, 2024 at 13:04 Quote
privateer-wheels wrote:
No hub gives you this,

Either my subtitles aren't clear enough or you haven't actually seen the video. This hub is at 5.5° in any situation. I know that conventional hubs work the way you explained but this one does not! The cam plate retracts the pawls whenever you don't pedal and while coasting they stay retracted no matter the position the wheel gets in. Only when you start to pedal the cam plate moves so that the pawls come out again. It's always at 5.5°.

So also, when the suspension actuates, it has to overcome 5.5° of the hub before you get the pedal kickback. It actually works exactly as O-Chain. I tested it too. I rode with O-Chain at 6° and with Tairin at 5.5°. There's no difference in feel. Only when going back to no-O-chain and a Shogun without the G-Spring the pedal kickback is more noticeable.
flag privateer-wheels
Posted: Jan 1, 2024 at 13:23 Quote
niconj wrote:
privateer-wheels wrote:
No hub gives you this,

Either my subtitles aren't clear enough or you haven't actually seen the video. This hub is at 5.5° in any situation. I know that conventional hubs work the way you explained but this one does not! The cam plate retracts the pawls whenever you don't pedal and while coasting they stay retracted no matter the position the wheel gets in. Only when you start to pedal the cam plate moves so that the pawls come out again. It's always at 5.5°.

So also, when the suspension actuates, it has to overcome 5.5° of the hub before you get the pedal kickback. It actually works exactly as O-Chain. I tested it too. I rode with O-Chain at 6° and with Tairin at 5.5°. There's no difference in feel. Only when going back to no-O-chain and a Shogun without the G-Spring the pedal kickback is more noticeable.

Riiiight. I get you, my apologies. And no, I did lot watch the video. But your note here has reminded me how the Tairin works! Right you are, you would always be traveling the 5.5° because of the way the retraction component works to pull the ratchets apart.
flag niconj
Posted: Feb 24, 2024 at 11:20 Quote
Huge update for the Shogun Silent hub (English subtitles available). If you want to try it, here's a discount code valid for two weeks from now: HarzEnduro.
flag jray152
Posted: Mar 5, 2024 at 4:55 Quote
My only problem with the Onyx vesper is the preload adjustment rings. They just don’t work that great, adjustment is a bitch, and ya the cassette will come off real easy when it’s attached to the driver.
flag nicktapias
Posted: Mar 20, 2024 at 7:15 Quote
Another one toasted. Climbing about a 20% grade in 1st gear heard a crunchy pop and then the whole thing seized. Got home and disassembled it and found several sprags split in half. This is a Classic hub now, I have never disassembled this hub or pressure washed it before it failed, I thought this thing was bombproof.
flag privateer-wheels
Posted: Mar 20, 2024 at 14:26 Quote
nicktapias wrote:
Another one toasted. Climbing about a 20% grade in 1st gear heard a crunchy pop and then the whole thing seized. Got home and disassembled it and found several sprags split in half. This is a Classic hub now, I have never disassembled this hub or pressure washed it before it failed, I thought this thing was bombproof.

Do you have pictures of the internals? The broken clutch/sprags? I would be interested to see.
flag nicktapias
Posted: Apr 1, 2024 at 21:01 Quote
photo

photo

photo
Alright, wanted to sort everything out before posting any follow-ups. IN SHORT: Onyx warranty is amazing, these guys took care of me and sent me new clutches and driver free. The free hub bearings went to crap and water was able to leak by into the drive mechanism, causing rust to form and eventually the sprag retainer probably snapped and the sprags got completely toasted. The sprags themselves were not rusted, I suspect it was the retaining spring.

 


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