The new Fuel EX Gen 6 is no Remedy, and I'm a fool for thinking it would be.

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
The new Fuel EX Gen 6 is no Remedy, and I'm a fool for thinking it would be.
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flag islandforlife
Posted: Oct 19, 2022 at 9:47 Quote
gnarnaimo wrote:

Yeah I've since got a new bike with new cushcore. 3 bikes with cushcore now, lasted the length of ownership of the bikes for me. Removed them with each sale, they definitely had alot of slice marks but seemed to be still providing adequate rim protection.

I run 19 psi front, 20-22 psi rear on exo+ tires and ride pretty aggressively. That being said, I'm 145 lbs soaking wet.

Ya, we sound similar, but add 45lbs of weight in my gear and so my pressures are a little higher... 145 lbs is very light. Big difference between 190 lbs vs 145 lbs smashing through stuff. My rim rear, even with CushCore or Tannus is done by the end of the season (dented and more square than round, haha). Ya I was pushing through those slices cuts and killing rims so needed a fresh set. Tannus doesn't seem to cut up, so far.
flag dancingwithmyself
Posted: Oct 22, 2022 at 16:46 Quote
Have an EXe (large) and from everything I can tell it will go to 150 (65 vs 60 stroke: same e2e). 5mm clearance between seat stay bridge and set tube. If you're willing to put more money into, highly recommend a Hazard with 2.5 and 5mm strokes reducers to play with.

If you don't like it, maybe keep the shock and buy a Banshee Titan for a 170/155 setup. That's my big bike and I love it. Move the Hazard between the two with the same spring.
flag dustytrailsmtb
O+
Posted: Oct 23, 2022 at 19:18 Quote
dancingwithmyself wrote:
Have an EXe (large) and from everything I can tell it will go to 150 (65 vs 60 stroke: same e2e). 5mm clearance between seat stay bridge and set tube. If you're willing to put more money into, highly recommend a Hazard with 2.5 and 5mm strokes reducers to play with.

Hmmm. This stuff is over my head unfortunately. But the EX is a 185 x 55 whereas the EXe is 205x60. My understanding is that my stroke is maxed out. 185 comes in either 52.5 or 55 strokes) SO, to go longer I'd need to increase the e2e, right?
Then doing all this (if I even could with e2e mods) probably voids warranty no?
flag islandforlife
Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 8:23 Quote
dustn323 wrote:
dancingwithmyself wrote:
Have an EXe (large) and from everything I can tell it will go to 150 (65 vs 60 stroke: same e2e). 5mm clearance between seat stay bridge and set tube. If you're willing to put more money into, highly recommend a Hazard with 2.5 and 5mm strokes reducers to play with.

Hmmm. This stuff is over my head unfortunately. But the EX is a 185 x 55 whereas the EXe is 205x60. My understanding is that my stroke is maxed out. 185 comes in either 52.5 or 55 strokes) SO, to go longer I'd need to increase the e2e, right?
Then doing all this (if I even could with e2e mods) probably voids warranty no?

Yes, don't f*ck with eye to eye changes. Generally that's not possible. Even if you could cram it in there, you risk totally changing the kinematic and yes also voiding warranty.
flag ksilvey10
O+
Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 14:05 Quote
If you want to stick with Trek, the Slash might surprise you. The pre 2022 Slash is VERY similar to the Remedy, just a little faster/more capable. What it sounds like you might love would be a Stumpy Evo, TBH.

dustn323 wrote:
TL,DR: It's all in the title. If you're looking for a 29" version of your Remedy, you may want to look elsewhere. This more capable Fuel still can't match the confidence that the Remedy inspires.

But here is the novel for those interested:

I've been a Trek fan boy for a few years now. I'm not sure why I have so much loyalty,  but I do.  I've been riding a Remedy for a few generations now, selling one and upgrading to the next year model when they update the bike. And every time I move from one bike to the next, it feels like my trusty steed, but (dramatic pause) better. Trek seems to be able to update their bikes significantly,  while still keeping the bike true to itself.

Don't get meet wrong,  Treks come with their own issues,  but the Remedy has always felt like a quiver killer. I tend to ride big backcountry days,  peddling uphill for hours just to desend absolute mank. Then, the next day I'll go shred bike park laps where I never feel under biked.

But this little voice in my head kept telling me to try a 29er. "It'll help you carry speed through that chunk." It would say.
The problem with me, is that I let this voice take over. I give it too much attention until it becomes all-consuming.

So now I need a 29er. And Trek only makes a Fuel EX - which is way too small of a bike for me - or the Slash - which by every account is a "race machine". I'm not looking for the fastest bike possible. I love that my Remedy is playful, and I don't want to be over-biked on 70% of my rides. What I really want is a 29" Remedy, but it doesn't exist anymore (and remember,  I'm too unjustly loyal to Trek to look at other brands).

And then I watched a video. Nothing informative.  Just marketing hype, disguised as entertainment.  You probably all saw it too (if you haven't,  you should cus it's freaking dope).
Parallel II.
I immediately noticed that Brandon and Kade were riding something special. A yet-to-be-released bike, that looked just like the Fuel EX-e.
This, combined with the fact that Trek was pushing the Top Fuel into the territory of the Fuel EX,  and simultaneously discontinuing the Remedy told me that this new Gen 6 Fuel was their way of answering the call for a modern big wheeled Remedy. It looked playful, big hitting, slack, and fun.
I took the bait. Hard. I started calling shops to see who might know more, but most shop employees had the same tone in their voice when they had to tell me that they weren't also analyzing this internet video frame by frame. Although they never said it, I could hear it: I was a crazy person.

That is until one bike shop called me back a few weeks later to tell me I was right. (I mean, I always knew I was right,  but that doesn't make my behavior any less crazy. I can see that now too).

So I placed an order, and I went all in. I had a 9.8 coming my way, and it wasn't enough to try out a stock bike. I went full dentist and threw in a XX1 AXS upgrade kit, as well as the AXS Reverb dropper post. (These are things I was already running on my Remedy and knew I loved).

I dove in head first where a smarter man would have dipped his toes, or at least checked the depth.

I mean,  the writing was on the wall.  It was there clear for me to see,  but I ignored all warning signs just to quiet that voice inside my head. The one that was yelling "big wheels!"
I should have questioned my sanity when I placed a deposit on a bike that had 10mm less travel than my Remedy, but I convinced myself that the big wheels would help. I mean after all, it's pretty common to see bikes spec'd with slightly shorter travel as long as they are rolling on 29rs.

And anyway, there is this cool flip chip that let's you run the shock in a more progressive setting for aggressive riders like me! And you can run it slacker than a Remedy! And you can equip it with a coil shock - I never see those on a bike unless it's meant to shred!

So when my bike finally came, and my friends serendipitously invited me to a weekend of DH laps at Trestle and Vail for my maiden voyage, I didn't hesitate.

I set my sag to 24%. Put the flip chip in the "more" setting to increase the progressive nature of the bike and ripped some bike park laps.

My first thought was "this feels just like my Remedy". It was a good feeling.  And the big wheels made a difference.  I felt fast. The chunky stuff disappeared beneath my 29" tires and I was happy.

And the bike had more pop than my Remedy. I seemed to be launching off the lips of my favorite jumps with more ease.

But I kept wondering,  is it the bike? I mean, I normally run cushcore in my Remedy, which certainly makes it more of a heavy piggy than this "light" Fuel. And I have really been working on my jumping technique,  so maybe it was just me?

Either way, I was enjoying myself. This bike rips! Kind of. This bike kind of rips.

What I started to notice throughout the day was that when I was in controll of the bike, it did as I asked. But unlike my Remedy, it didn't do much to save me when I pushed beyond my limits.  You see, I regularly thanked my Remedy for saving my ass and picking up the slack where my skills dropped off.
The Remedy is a confidence inspiring bike. The kind of bike that whispers "you can do this, I got your back" from the top of any sketchy line.

The Fuel didn't. So when I made a mistake (which I often do) I felt it, and it felt scary. I was under biked.

We're probably at the part of my story where you say to yourself,  "no shit, this is a Fuel EX.  It's not designed for bike parks!"

But this is why I'm sharing my story.  I really believed Trek had built my dream bike, and were simply rebranding their lineup. I mean, they put serious money into showing this thing off as a freestyle bike perfectly capable in the hands of Brandon and Kade!
I mean, I get it, those two could rip some Wal-Mart specials and make it look good.  But I figured if this was Treks campaign,  then it was probably because they were redefining the bike - and I got swept up in the marketing hype.

Again. It's my fault. I should have seen that 140mm of travel and thought "Na, not for me".

But I rarely bottomed out my Remedy, and I push that thing hard! Maybe I don't need all that travel, especially if I use that cool flipy chip thingy!

It turns out, that 10mm of travel makes a difference.

I was bottoming out a lot. Like a lot a lot. And it was always harsh.
And it wasn't just on big stuff! There were a good handful of times I would pop off a little side hit, come down a little sideways and hear the worst noise. I can't say for sure it was the sound of yet another bottom out, but my fun-o-meter ring would for sure be hanging off the bottom. (Insert sad face emoji here).

The problem was,  I was already running at a 24% sag. I didn't really want to go lower than that.  But when I did, I felt it. The small bump sensitivity disappeared and I took the abuse to my legs and arms.

I was really feeling the abuse that two days of riding bike park laps will do to an old man like me. But I also had that perma grin that comes along with it.

That's how I knew I had fun. It's how I knew I really enjoyed the new Fuel EX. But as we got down to the bottom of the hill on oir secondday, we still had one feature ahead of us: a drop on Vail Mountain called Bailey's Shortcut. It's not all that sizable; probably 4 ft to a nice transition.
I got off my bike to look at it as I've always skipped this drop before, even on my Remedy. But I've been feeling good in the air this summer, and I've been hitting drops bigger than this for sure with my Remedy.

But as I looked down this drop, all I could picture was that harsh bottom out, and the possible loss of control that would come of it. I decided to skip it. And that's when it hit me. It was the first time I skipped a feature - not because I didn't have the skill - but because I was under-biked. That wasn't a good feeling for me.

I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of options!

I get it. I might be writing this story prematurely.  There may be more chapters to come as I try to figure out how to get more out of this suspension.  But as I'm doing my research,  I keep coming back to the same response: at the end of the day, it's still only 140mm,  and there's only so much you can do with that.

It feels like a cruel euphemism for my sex life.

So, do I dump more money into a problem that may be unsolvable? Somehow upgrade my shock, throw on a 160mm fork?  Or do I offload this bike and try to find something that suits me better? This thought will keep me up at night for weeks.

I will for sure add some volume spacers to the suspension to see how that feels, but with every ride I take this bike out on, I risk scratching it up,  making it less likely that I can sell it for what I paid should I end up going that route. Conundrums.
flag dancingwithmyself
Posted: Oct 26, 2022 at 3:46 Quote
dustn323 wrote:
dancingwithmyself wrote:
Have an EXe (large) and from everything I can tell it will go to 150 (65 vs 60 stroke: same e2e). 5mm clearance between seat stay bridge and set tube. If you're willing to put more money into, highly recommend a Hazard with 2.5 and 5mm strokes reducers to play with.

Hmmm. This stuff is over my head unfortunately. But the EX is a 185 x 55 whereas the EXe is 205x60. My understanding is that my stroke is maxed out. 185 comes in either 52.5 or 55 strokes) SO, to go longer I'd need to increase the e2e, right?
Then doing all this (if I even could with e2e mods) probably voids warranty no?

You are right! Sorry for the irrelevant advice. I assumed 2023 EX ( which may not even have the same e2e). Like others have said, I wouldn't even think about different e2e.
flag dustytrailsmtb
O+
Posted: Oct 26, 2022 at 11:15 Quote
I was wondering if moving up to the Float X2 would do me any good?
I like how poppy the bike rides currently. Feels playful. I was talking g to a friend who said the X2 was too much shock for this bike and might detract from the bikes playful characteristics?

Any of you have thoughts?
flag dancingwithmyself
Posted: Oct 27, 2022 at 8:08 Quote
dustn323 wrote:
I was wondering if moving up to the Float X2 would do me any good?
I like how poppy the bike rides currently. Feels playful. I was talking g to a friend who said the X2 was too much shock for this bike and might detract from the bikes playful characteristics?

Any of you have thoughts?

Google something like X2 failure squish suck noise damper. I have ridden a couple and really liked them, but did experience a couple of damper failures well before the 125 hours. If I was going to drop that much money aftermarket, would be reluctant to go X2.
flag ksilvey10
O+
Posted: Oct 27, 2022 at 15:16 Quote
I went from that shock to a floatx2 on a slash and it was a pret big upgrade. I have an X2 on my Enduro that I ride now and I haven't had any issues with either one
flag gnarnaimo
O+ FL
Posted: Oct 27, 2022 at 16:39 Quote
You should buy a lottery ticket
flag dustytrailsmtb
O+
Posted: Oct 27, 2022 at 23:45 Quote
dancingwithmyself wrote:
Google something like X2 failure squish suck noise damper. I have ridden a couple and really liked them, but did experience a couple of damper failures well before the 125 hours. If I was going to drop that much money aftermarket, would be reluctant to go X2.

Ok, but I think my question still remains. If I choose a shock LIKE the X2 (meaning something bigger, more robust like a Rockshox Vivid Air R2C?) would there be benefits? Would it help with bottoming out less often? If so, why?
And would any benefits outweigh potential cons? The bike is playful and light at the moment. Would/could a shock like this drag it over the line to where it was more supple or capable on big descents but then less playful and poppy?

Sorry, I have a lot to learn when it comes to rear suspension.
flag dustytrailsmtb
O+
Posted: Oct 27, 2022 at 23:49 Quote
islandforlife wrote:
Yes, don't f*ck with eye to eye changes. Generally that's not possible. Even if you could cram it in there, you risk totally changing the kinematic and yes also voiding warranty.

Thanks. This is what I assumed, so its nice to get clarification.
flag ksilvey10
O+
Posted: Oct 28, 2022 at 6:12 Quote
A new rockshox superdeluxe with the hydro bottom out help will give you what you want. A megneg on the stock can can make it where it never bottoms out, but it will feel dead off the top and not as poppy
flag KCFiets
Posted: Oct 31, 2022 at 13:10 Quote
I just bought a "new" Remedy before it would disappear, after having a 29 Canyon Strive for a few years. Despite the same travel and a bigger 170mm fork, I constantly missed my previous 2018 Remedy. My Canyon Strive had more travel that my old Remedy, but on slower twisty trails, both up and down, I did not like it. For me, I think the longer wheelbase of the Strive was the problem. Looking at the new Fuel EX, that wheelbase is insane in my size L frame, and the new Canyon Strive has gone beyond an insane wheelbase. I think there is a limit to this lower longer slacker, these new bikes might be great going all out straight downhill, but on all other trails/my front range Colorado trails, they do not work for me. Super happy to be back on an outdated bike with an outdated wheel size!
flag Cmtyson1
Posted: Feb 23, 2023 at 21:12 Quote
I enjoyed reading this so much. I’ve asked myself so many of the same questions you’ve pitched and I loved the honesty of “what if” bike-tweaking questions driving you nuts. What size remedy and what size fuel Gen 6 are you on? I felt like my body position was way different between the two. Ps I get the 140 vs 150 conundrum. The fuel feels capable but I seem to be able to sense when it’s approaching end of travel. The remedy just seems…bottomless. I’m thinking it’s the 10mm mixed with the geometry differences b/c somehow they just don’t feel the same when taking a hit…anyways cheers mate!

 


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