Suspension SETUP, a 'how to' guide...

PB Forum :: Mechanics' Lounge
Suspension SETUP, a 'how to' guide...
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flag talkingspoon
Posted: Dec 21, 2019 at 9:48 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
talkingspoon wrote:
I don't think its blown as everything works as it should. I have 280 psi in the shock ( on a slope bike) i m just not sure if I should have different oil put in.

The pressure is on the high side of average and you probably want the rebound slower than average to handle landings, not rock gardens. There's little you can do to change the low-speed rebound, other than to change the oil, so yes, you'll want thicker oil. Keep in mind this will also affect the compression.

The pressure I have gives good jumpability but also not so stiff on landings. The compression change that the oil will do isn't a big problem as its mostly high speed compression anyways
flag R-M-R
Posted: Dec 21, 2019 at 17:52 Quote
talkingspoon wrote:
The pressure I have gives good jumpability but also not so stiff on landings. The compression change that the oil will do isn't a big problem as its mostly high speed compression anyways

I mentioned the pressure only because it affects rebound, not because I'm concerned it's not right for you. More rebound damping is needed to control the high spring rate. Thicker oil will affect the range of rebound adjustment and allow you to slow it down.

The effect on compression damping won't be huge and shouldn't be a problem, since you're mostly looking to control hard landings and you're probably not concerned about keeping it supple during trail riding.
flag Lemonzesty
O+
Posted: Jan 31, 2020 at 15:23 Quote
Can anyone give an opinion on changing to a rear coil set up on my 2018 spectral c.f. 9.0, the linkage is progressive so a standard coil spring should still retain that without the need for a progressive spring, am i right in thinking this ?
And will I really lose the "pop" of an air shock ?
Does anyone run a coil on their spectral, and what's your thoughts on it ?

Thanks in advance !
flag R-M-R
Posted: Jan 31, 2020 at 17:53 Quote
Lemonzesty wrote:
Can anyone give an opinion on changing to a rear coil set up on my 2018 spectral c.f. 9.0, the linkage is progressive so a standard coil spring should still retain that without the need for a progressive spring, am i right in thinking this ?
And will I really lose the "pop" of an air shock ?
Does anyone run a coil on their spectral, and what's your thoughts on it ?

Thanks in advance !

The motion ratio is sufficiently progressive to work well with a coil. The shape isn't quite ideal - it levels off near bottom-out - but it's not a deal-breaker.

You won't necessarily lose the "pop". Air springs with small negative springs (i.e. most air springs) have quite a bit of support right off the top. i.e. when rebounding, they're still "kicking" almost until the linkage tops out, which is where the "pop". comes from.

With a coil, you should run less sag. The spring doesn't ramp up at the end of the stroke, so you need more support throughout the stroke to resist bottoming. This means there's more support in the middle two-thirds of the stroke, which can also help create "pop", just with a slightly different motion from the rider. If you still want more, use a softer spring with a little preload. This isn't ideal for bump compliance, but it will help with the "pop".
flag Lemonzesty
O+
Posted: Feb 2, 2020 at 5:17 Quote
Thanks for your opinion R-M-R, Most of my riding is enduro tech style rather than flowy jump lines, but I do like the occasional play on jumps, so a coil shock would be beneficial to my type of riding without really affecting jumping fun ? I've read a lot about losing the "pop" from switching to a coil !
flag bikerboywill
Posted: Feb 2, 2020 at 5:33 Quote
From experience people say that because they run their suspension too soft. With a coil, cause you have more sensitivity you can run less sag which still gives you the pop you’re after. Depending on frames and shocks you can run as little as 10% sag
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 2, 2020 at 7:16 Quote
Lemonzesty wrote:
Thanks for your opinion R-M-R, Most of my riding is enduro tech style rather than flowy jump lines, but I do like the occasional play on jumps, so a coil shock would be beneficial to my type of riding without really affecting jumping fun ? I've read a lot about losing the "pop" from switching to a coil !

The main things you'll notice with a coil:

• More support (firmer) over about half of the travel, from roughly the sag point to fairly deep in the travel.
• Less support (softer) from top-out to sag and at bottom-out.


bikerboywill wrote:
From experience people say that because they run their suspension too soft.

This may be true, depending on the shock. Compared to an air shock with small negative spring, a coil shock may need more sag. Compared to an air shock with large negative spring (Super Deluxe with MegNeg is the best example), a coil shock should have less sag. Comparing sag across spring types also depends on the compression ratio of the air springs. For example, an air spring loaded with volume reducers (tokens) should have more sag, or else you'll never bottom it out. This would produce a very "squishy" or "wallowy" feel, yet still resist bottoming out. A coil spring or a MegNeg system with no reducers would be the opposite: firmer throughout, with a less pronounced spike in spring rate near the end of the travel.


bikerboywill wrote:
With a coil, cause you have more sensitivity you can run less sag which still gives you the pop you’re after. Depending on frames and shocks you can run as little as 10% sag

Not quite. You "can" run as little sag as you like, but 10% will not ride well. Best to stick with more traditional numbers, around 25% - 35%, depending on the bike's kinematics.

It's not due to the sensitivity, it's because the coil spring doesn't provide as much support near the end of the travel. The area under the force vs. displacement curve needs to be about the same as with an air shock to provide equivalent support. Since a coil doesn't offer as much force near bottom-out, it has to have more force elsewhere in the stroke.
flag Mclean281
Posted: Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 Quote
Hi All

Anyone know some good base settings for my Marzocchi 380 C2R2? im 185 pounds and do a mixture of tech and bike park jumps, want to find a happy medium so I don't need to faff too much flicking between settings?

Cheers
flag jonus216
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 at 16:38 Quote
Mclean281 wrote:
Hi All

Anyone know some good base settings for my Marzocchi 380 C2R2? im 185 pounds and do a mixture of tech and bike park jumps, want to find a happy medium so I don't need to faff too much flicking between settings?

Cheers

Put all settings half close from from fully open.
flag 605endurbro
Posted: Mar 18, 2020 at 11:20 Quote
Hey everyone, I recently got a sc megatower with a fox 36 grip2. I have not previously had a fork with so many adjustments and I am feeling a touch lost, although I feel I have a fairly solid but basic understanding of how all the adjustments work. I was wondering if anyone had some recommendations for setting starting out. I ride a mix of rooty/rocky steep enduro stuff and smoother jump trails (Bellingham). I started with 25% sag and fox’s recommended settings but I feel as though it could be a touch more subtle off the top and a bit more mid stroke support. Any recommendations? I am excited to be able to play around more with suspension!
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 18, 2020 at 12:09 Quote
605endurbro wrote:
Hey everyone, I recently got a sc megatower with a fox 36 grip2. I have not previously had a fork with so many adjustments and I am feeling a touch lost, although I feel I have a fairly solid but basic understanding of how all the adjustments work. I was wondering if anyone had some recommendations for setting starting out. I ride a mix of rooty/rocky steep enduro stuff and smoother jump trails (Bellingham). I started with 25% sag and fox’s recommended settings but I feel as though it could be a touch more subtle off the top and a bit more mid stroke support. Any recommendations? I am excited to be able to play around more with suspension!

When someone says "more midstroke support", the best way to think of it is "less of everything that isn't midstroke".

1. Remove volume reducers (pucks/tokens) in the spring.
2. Raise pressure.

This will reduce your sag a little, which is fine. If you want to keep it feeling supple on top, reduce the low-speed compression damping.
flag 605endurbro
Posted: Mar 18, 2020 at 12:36 Quote
R-M-R, thanks for the response, it seems you are pretty prolific in this thread. I think I read a post of yours earlier in the thread saying removing tokens will increase midstroke support. Can you explain how this works? Is it simply that removing tokens but increasing your pressure lets you still use the same amount of travel as before but it’s stiffer earlier in the stroke?
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 18, 2020 at 12:54 Quote
Yes, that's the right idea.

Think of a force vs. displacement graph, such as this one by André Santos. You want to keep the area under the curve fairly constant. If you want the midstroke to come up, the other regions have to come down. Here's how to address each region:

• Early stroke: lower by increasing the volume of the negative spring (sometimes impossible, often requires new parts).
• Mid stroke: raise by increasing pressure.
• End stroke: lower by increasing the volume of the positive spring (remove reducers/spacers/tokens/pucks/whatever-you-want-to-call-them).

 


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