SX TRAIL or banshee WILDCARD ?

PB Forum :: Freeride & Slopestyle
SX TRAIL or banshee WILDCARD ?
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flag wakiisapuddinghead
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 6:40 Quote
ridelikeustoleit wrote:
Keit wrote:
hampsteadbandit wrote:
totally different bikes

the Wildcard can be built lighter, and run on 5" rear travel with an adjustable travel fork like Lyric or 36 Talas will be super versatile with great acceleration when pumping DJs or pedalling, its a physically smaller bike than the SXT with lower standover height and super short chainstays with a slack head angle and steep seat angle which makes it feel very responsive

or built with a tough DJ fork like Marzocchi DJ1 or Rockshox Argyle will be a great dirt jump / slopestyle bike

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the SXT is a bigger bike with 7" travel, its going to be a better bike for rougher more natural, faster terrain and rutted bike parks as the FSR suspension is smoother in the rough chunder or braking through the bumps

are you talking about the old SXT or the new 2009 SXT, because the new 2009 SXT is a totally different beast to the old one! the new SXT feels just like a demo 7 but a little lighter and more nimble Smile


different bikes may be but he did ask of these tow bikes which would each pinkbiker recommend
do you get a bonus for sales leads?


Rob works for freeborn bikes who sell both specialized and banshee bikes (Mythic in the UK) so it doesnt really interest him to be biased either way.

And like people have already said, it is completely down to what he wants the bike for as both are sick bikes in my experience. I would personally pick the wildcard but if he wants something a bit more heavy hitting than a new SX is a better choice.

very well aware of this but he always rants on about the banshee bikes

use search on the forums
flag harriieee
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 10:59 Quote
Keit: shush.

Rob, how would you describe the old SXTs if not as a lighter, more nimble Demo 7? I run mine with a fairly soft coil and slowish rebound (I once tried messing with the 66's internals, it took ages and I hated it with rebound faster), it feels very 'long travel' even if it is an Enduro frame. Never tried a Demo 7... but how do old and new differ that much? It may be a new frame, but the design basis is still very similar.
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:14 Quote
very well aware of this but he always rants on about the banshee bikes

use search on the forums


I have owned a whole fleet of Specialized bikes over the years, and have a Specialized bike currently in my collection of bikes, I also own a Devinci Hectik All-Mountain bike so its not all Banshee here Wink


Rob, how would you describe the old SXTs if not as a lighter, more nimble Demo 7? I run mine with a fairly soft coil and slowish rebound (I once tried messing with the 66's internals, it took ages and I hated it with rebound faster), it feels very 'long travel' even if it is an Enduro frame. Never tried a Demo 7... but how do old and new differ that much? It may be a new frame, but the design basis is still very similar.


the old SXT rode nothing like a Demo 7, which you admit you have never tried?

I never liked the old SXT because it was just an Enduro frame with a heavier swingarm, longer stroke shock and shuttle, and 1 degree slacker head angle, loaded with heavier parts which made it feel porky

the suspension was excellent but I personally thought the geometry did not suit fast, aggressive freeriding, and alot of people seemed to agree here in the UK by installing a longer fork (66 or Totem) to slacken the frame angles, increase the front centre and raise the bottom bracket

the interupted seatube and high seat pod meant it felt top heavy (like you were sitting on top of the bike, rather than "in" the bike, and the adjustment range of the seatpost was poor, which limited its potential for proper mountain biking (climbing)


the design basis of the old SXT and new SXT is not at all similar due to the fact that they engineered a totally new frame platform for the new SXT, rather than adapting an existing frame (enduro) and modifying it to try and make a new bike

the new frame is much more suitable for aggressive freeriding due to its improved geometry, increased lateral rigidity and much lower standover height - Specialized took alot of knowledge gained from the Demos and applied it to the new SXT

its also a lighter bike and has more generous seatpost adjustment range, which makes it capable of all-mountain and trail riding to some degree
flag ctd07
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:18 Quote
I'd go for the Specialized for sure, It would suit Totems better and the build quality, linkage design and pretty much everything else is better with the Specialized (new or old).

Specialized often use custom tuned/modified shocks with there bikes, this feature is a definite plus, but not if you plan to switch the default shock as you may just end up opening a whole can of worms for yourself....

Both bikes look real nice from a side profuile view, but when you get up close and inspect both bikes, the Banshee looks really cheap and cruddy [FYI, I own a Wildcard], Specialized have much nicer design prowess!


EDIT:
It may be also worth noting, the Wildcard is not as super light as Banshee claim - I recently weighed my size small frame and it came in at 0.7Lbs heavier w/shock than is claimed [@ 4.1Kg w/deflated dhx 5.0 air shock ]- I looked on Sickines.com for a comparison and the Wildcard frame alone weighs nearly the same as an Intense M6 frame, considerably heavier than any such competitive options available from Transition bikes.

Albeit, the quoted weight Banshee use may be for the anodized version, which will weigh less, but the paint work on the Wildcard [if you get a painted version] is very thin and chips/scratches incredibly easily..... just my 2 cents
flag taskmgr
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:22 Quote
you're right about the changes to the new one. But that makes it less versatile. The sx jumps, does drops and plows through the rough stuff pretty easily (if setup right) the head angle for the 08 is 66.5 and 67.5. It jumps and rails corners really easily and quickly. My bike is 36.7lbs with burly downhill parts. for a downhill bike. thats pretty damn good. its more bike that a wild card.
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:26 Quote
I would agree that the manufacturing is superior on the SXT, because Specialized is a huge company with massive resources, they can afford to spend big bucks on all the tooling needed to hydroform and cold forge all the frame components

a single tool can run into a cost of $15,000 which means any new frame platform is a big investment for any company

Banshee actually does very well for a small company in terms of engineering prowess and manufacturing technology like hydroforming, cold forging and cold form extrusion(if you compare to other small companies like Transition who still use swaged tubing with welded gussets and cnc components)

but the big companies will always have the edge in terms of their resources, and also an entire dept. dedicated to graphics, paint and visual continuity
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:29 Quote
it may be also worth noting, the Wildcard is not as super light as Banshee claim - I recently weighed my size small frame and it came in at 0.7Lbs heavier w/shock than is claimed [@ 9.145Lbs w/deflated dhx 5.0 air shock ]- I looked on Sickines.com for a comparison and the Wildcard frame alone weighs the same as an Intense M6 frame, considerably heavier than any such competitive options available from Transition bikes.

Albeit, the quoted weight Banshee use may be for the anodized version, which will weigh less, but the paint work on the Wildcard [if you get a painted version] is very thin and chips/scratches incredibly easily..... just m

you are right, it is heavier than claimed, we weighed a medium and found it heavier than the claimed weight

something I would say about the Wildcard is that its very tough, certainly tougher than an M6 (I know a guy who is on his 3rd M6, all cracked around b/b area), if you look at what the WC was designed for, its designed for flips, whips and spins which an M6 is definitely not!

the anodised version is about 150gm lighter than the painted, which is normal for anodised frames versus painted frames
flag taskmgr
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:29 Quote
I agree. and the wildcard and sx trail were meant for different riding situations. But it doesn't mean it restricts the performance of either of them and lets face it, unless your a pro, you will probably be fine on either. it all comes down to rider and setup.
flag ctd07
Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 11:35 Quote
hampsteadbandit wrote:
it may be also worth noting, the Wildcard is not as super light as Banshee claim - I recently weighed my size small frame and it came in at 0.7Lbs heavier w/shock than is claimed [@ 4.1kg w/deflated dhx 5.0 air shock ]- I looked on Sickines.com for a comparison and the Wildcard frame alone weighs nearly the same as an Intense M6 frame, considerably heavier than any such competitive options available from Transition bikes.

Albeit, the quoted weight Banshee use may be for the anodized version, which will weigh less, but the paint work on the Wildcard [if you get a painted version] is very thin and chips/scratches incredibly easily..... just m

you are right, it is heavier than claimed, we weighed a medium and found it heavier than the claimed weight

something I would say about the Wildcard is that its very tough, certainly tougher than an M6 (I know a guy who is on his 3rd M6, all cracked around b/b area), if you look at what the WC was designed for, its designed for flips, whips and spins which an M6 is definitely not!

the anodised version is about 150gm lighter than the painted, which is normal for anodised frames versus painted frames

yeah, I've heard lots of things about Intense bikes, I say get a Foes if you insist on being 'all American' - The Wildcard actually weighs about 200g less than the M6, and I figured the anodized version could be up to ½Lb lighter [considering it only has a thin coat of paint].

reading back, my opinions was a little biased, in the Wildcard's favour, it is a very stiff and versatile frame & strong as hell too - it depends on what the guy wants it for, but if planning on doing a wide variety of riding styles like dj and dh riding all on the same bike, the Wildcard wins hand down - for more dedicated FR riding, the SX trail will likely be better.
flag wakiisapuddinghead
Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 0:14 Quote
harriieee wrote:
Keit: shush.

Rob, how would you describe the old SXTs if not as a lighter, more nimble Demo 7? I run mine with a fairly soft coil and slowish rebound (I once tried messing with the 66's internals, it took ages and I hated it with rebound faster), it feels very 'long travel' even if it is an Enduro frame. Never tried a Demo 7... but how do old and new differ that much? It may be a new frame, but the design basis is still very similar.

sorry.
just having a rant
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