mtbmudhoney

@NWBasser: I see a couple goals of NSMBA working with Metro... 1) continuing the permitting process for NSMBA builders to look after the trails that are already authorized (this includes general maintenance but also ability to build skinnies or drops or jumps etc. 2) getting Metro to approve the construction of new trails to meet the growing demand (both to increase the number of trails and ensure a variety in the character of the trails, ie not sure machine built flow or all blue trails) and to have NSMBA / local builders do the building (rather than Metro hiring an outside contractor to do the building. Given insurance issues, builders would likely need to build the trails through NSMBA to have the coverage that Metro requires. As Lee's said multiple places, Metro responds better to the external pressure. NSMBA can sit at the table with Metro and keep asking for new trails and Metro would just keep saying no otherwise. Not working with Metro would mean NSMBA cannot be involved in the maintenance of the already authorized trails, so either trail maintenance happens without permits or doesn't happen at all (see Neds and CBC history), and any trail work done runs the risk of being torn out. As for new trails, the risk is them being shut down, the situation we're in now.

@Kruetters: it was in the process of getting sanctioned. Builders did walk-throughs, made plans - was going to be a joint effort with multiple builders. But then someone was seriously injured on the trail and Metro backed out. Then in the 2018 trails plan, Metro decided to make the whole Boulder creek area hiking only. NSMBA successfully advocated to change that.

@Kruetters: Crippler and a few others were independent, as that's how the permitting process with DNV started out way back when. Crippler (and most Fromme trails) is managed by DNV. But DNV recently required that the independent builders have insurance... so they are now doing that through NSMBA.

Metro has refused to give permits in the past and also ripped out a feature that they authorized, so yes... Metro has shown in the past that they would retaliate. NSMBA putting out a call to action would need to be done pretty carefully - but in the past, there have been recommendations from the org to write the land managers to give them feedback, both good and bad. There's actually a page on the NSMBA website with all of the contacts for the different land managers encouraging this. https://nsmba.ca/providing-feedback/ I think it's a good thing that the petition wasn't initiated by NSMBA. I think it has more strength this way, and less potential for backlash from Metro against the org.

A couple notes for other folks following along in this thread (not directed at Lee, he already knows this, but the info fits in this thread) Cambodia (pre-exisiting trail) and Cabin Fever (new trail) and TNT (rebuilt/reroute into "climb") are the three trails Metro has authorized recently. Metro previously authorized & gave permits to NSMBA for the following: Corkscrew, Dale's, Forever After (which I guess part of that counts as a new build), Bottletop, Ridge Runner, Greenland, Cabin, and their section of Bridle Path. While Ned's and CBC are authorized / official trails, Metro refused to give permits for them for years.

@pmhobson: the network capacity on the Shore hasn't kept up with the increase in trail user-ship. Yep, we've got amazing trails - we are spoiled for sure (and, yep, I'm biased)... but if all of the unauthorized trails on the Shore were successfully closed and all of the riders only rode authorized trails (assuming they stayed on the Shore and didn't go ride elsewhere), the increase in traffic on those trails would lead to increased real and perceived conflict between users on the trail, not to mention a huge increase in maintenance needs. Seymour has four different land managers that each manage a different chunk of the mountain. Aside from formally authorizing pre-existing trails (and giving NSMBA permission to do maintenance on the trails), none of the land managers have stepped up to recognize the need to expand the trail network. Metro has only permitted one new trail - Cabin Fever, which is a relatively short trail. Since Rec Sites & Trails BC (the provincial land manger for crown land) took over managing a federally owned section, there's a moratorium on new trails within their slice. BC Parks permitted a short hiking trail to be built (Fern Gully) that parallels Empress Bypass (built by NSMBA in order to get permission to make EB bike only and bring up to adaptive standards) And the only new trail permitted by DNV has been Boogie Nights, again a relatively short trail.