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Whats the best all mtn frame?

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Whats the best all mtn frame?
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flag brigand
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 10:44 Quote
$2284 with monarch in croatia, not bad, let's say you can get a trek remedy for that money here (which i never would lol )
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 11:00 Quote
bike biz is going through a big crunch...

personally (having worked in the UK trying to manufacture frames and components domestically) its always a shame when a domestically produced brand goes "off shore", as you are losing that manufacturing capability from your own country, in the quest for maintaining profits....


something that always amazes me is that one of our import brands, Devinci (Quebec, Canada) manufactures (in house) frames that rival bigger players being made in Taiwane and China, yet we can sell into the UK for GBP£1100 (Hectik all-mtn) and GBP£1500 (Wilson DH) and we still make a living

I'd definitely LOVE to see more USA, UK and European brands being made "domestically" at affordable prices
flag brigand
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 11:07 Quote
bigquotesin the quest for maintaining profits

i would say in quest for maintaining unrationally high set profits
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 11:12 Quote
i would say in quest for maintaining unrationally high set profits

that is true Wink

people running some of these big companies have perhaps lost the perception of "making a good living", whilst employing local people, and putting back into their local community

its Globalisation really? companies are offered the carrot of making MAD profit by going off-shore, and damn the consequences for their workforce, as long as the owners make good $$$ Wink
flag davemud
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 12:18 Quote
hampsteadbandit wrote:
i would say in quest for maintaining unrationally high set profits

that is true Wink

people running some of these big companies have perhaps lost the perception of "making a good living", whilst employing local people, and putting back into their local community

its Globalisation really? companies are offered the carrot of making MAD profit by going off-shore, and damn the consequences for their workforce, as long as the owners make good $$$ Wink

I can see your point about trying to keep jobs local. The companies who produce bikes at the level we all ride however often have newer more sophisticated bicycle manufacturing equipment than small north American companies do.

They do their volume through the use of very sophisticated machines that can mitre a tubeset and spot weld it in a single operation. Most companies also weld by hand. Its only the largest companies that can afford the robots capable of welding a bike frame.

I don't think the econmic reality or windfall is as easy as you are implying either as I worked for both Syncros and RMB when they started doing some production over seas. RMB now does all production over seas.
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 12:49 Quote
its tough for sure

eventually, the countries like Taiwan and China will get unionised, as their workers will demand more wages and better working conditions (like we did in the Western world)

their price will raise, and companies will see no profit benefit in manufacturing off shore

it will create a more level playing field

riders MAY have to pay a little more for their frame, or bike, but will be supporting local labour, who CARE about what they produce, and KNOW what they are doing, and WHY they are welding the tubes together

I know people who work in the bike biz in Taiwan, and unfortunately they tell me the workers are NOT into bicycles, or have any care for what they do..its just a "job" whether welding bicycle frame, lawn mower structures or automobile components...
flag davemud
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:01 Quote
hampsteadbandit wrote:
...eventually, the countries like Taiwan and China will get unionised, as their workers will demand more wages and better working conditions (like we did in the Western world)... I know people who work in the bike biz in Taiwan, and unfortunately they tell me the workers are NOT into bicycles, or have any care for what they do..its just a "job" whether welding bicycle frame, lawn mower structures or automobile components...

The workers in Taiwan are better off than you think. When I was there doing vendor quality audits for RMB 10 years ago trades people in taiwan made about the same wage as we do in Canada. Taiwan also had the 6th wealthiest people per capita in the world.

When going to Taiwan, as I've said before in other threads its not the wages that are so much lower it is their manufacturing capacity and efficiency being so much higher that lowers costs to bike companies.

Don't kid yourself either about NA bike company workers being riders passionate about the sport because that simply isn't true. Yes there are riders in most companies but many of the best trades people are not cyclists here either.
flag windowlicker
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:35 Quote
If you want a Nomad, hold out for the carbon one they are releasing at Sea Otter. It's gonna be pimpppppppppppppppp.
flag seraph
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:35 Quote
windowlicker wrote:
If you want a Nomad, hold out for the carbon one they are releasing at Sea Otter. It's gonna be pimpppppppppppppppp.

My guess on the price is $2600.
flag windowlicker
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:37 Quote
seraph wrote:
windowlicker wrote:
If you want a Nomad, hold out for the carbon one they are releasing at Sea Otter. It's gonna be pimpppppppppppppppp.

My guess on the price is $2600.
Yeah, the price will be insane, but it will be soooooooo nice. Worth? For the bling factor, totally.
flag brigand
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:38 Quote
i don't want to guess

...but that would probably come to equal amount of euros here Cry
flag seraph
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:52 Quote
windowlicker wrote:
seraph wrote:
windowlicker wrote:
If you want a Nomad, hold out for the carbon one they are releasing at Sea Otter. It's gonna be pimpppppppppppppppp.

My guess on the price is $2600.
Yeah, the price will be insane, but it will be soooooooo nice. Worth? For the bling factor, totally.

Since I already have a Nomad 2, it won't be worth it for me. However if they're able to drop a solid pound off the frame like they did with the Blur LTc, then I might think about it...

Either way I can get employee purchase pricing on one.
flag windowlicker
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 15:57 Quote
seraph wrote:
windowlicker wrote:
seraph wrote:


My guess on the price is $2600.
Yeah, the price will be insane, but it will be soooooooo nice. Worth? For the bling factor, totally.

Since I already have a Nomad 2, it won't be worth it for me. However if they're able to drop a solid pound off the frame like they did with the Blur LTc, then I might think about it...

Either way I can get employee purchase pricing on one.

Do it!!
flag davemud
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 16:12 Quote
After seeing the Anthem X and Trance X advanced as well as the Remedy 9.9 carbon this year I won't be surprised to see a Reign advanced full carbon next year. It would be at least as beautiful as the Trance X but I can't see it doing well on the Gnarl of the Northshore. Not that the shore is my main riding area, I only do night rides once a week but I still don't see the carbon surviving crashes in gnaly rocky terrain as Aluxx.

As complete bikes are in the 8k+ range it isn't an issue for me anyway.
flag motrvatd
O+
Posted: Feb 7, 2010 at 16:47 Quote
nomads are only 1800$, the site says 2200 i think for the base level one, maybe i'm wrong. Sadly i don't have a local sc dealer so can't go in and look at one. but giants of similar price i think where around 1800.
a Carbon nomad would be awesome but i also agree with the fact it would take a beating on the gnarl

 


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