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Is a Flat Landing Really That Bad?

PB Forum :: Freeride & Slopestyle
Is a Flat Landing Really That Bad?
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flag potvinwannab
Posted: Oct 8, 2007 at 19:04 Quote
like what scaliwag said, mtb tend to go alot faster, alot higher, and also have aluminum frames. Landing flat can take a good portion of life out of an aluminum frame. When you land to a nice tranny the force barely even gets directed downwards, instead it is transferred into speed going forward. If i had a steel dj frame, or steel freeride frame flat landings wouldnt really faze me, its just you dont want to risk taking a year or more of the life of your frame.
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Posted: Oct 8, 2007 at 19:09 Quote
Dropping to flat really isnt bad if you know how to take it, absorb back to front and use your body like suspension, i drop to flat all the time riding street.
flag guancho-libre
Posted: Oct 8, 2007 at 19:19 Quote
landing to flat isnt so bad but if you have to try to go fast as hell for drops and just dont jumps 2 flat
flag emubritish
Posted: Oct 8, 2007 at 19:34 Quote
i think one of the big reasons has been covered, but not explained... bmx and skateboards are naturally smaller, and get less in the way with the body of the rider during a landing. i read a description of sam hill using his arms and legs as the suspension of the bike, and thats why he was so smooth. if you watch a skateboarder land a big drop, they are almost squatted after they land, they absorb almost all of the hit with their legs, and on a skateboard you can, there is nothing in the way. same for the most part on a bmx, the seat is so low, you can crouch a good 24" down most of the time, and you can also use your arms... now with a mountain bike, your ability to crouch is limited, probably less than half of what you can do with a bmx, unless your talking about a super-small street/dj bike, you maybe have 12" of clearance when standing. you do have the advantage of suspension, but generally thats no more than 8", and your joints are constantly variable in how stiff they are and have instantly variable rebound, so the 8" of suspension is no where near as effective as the 12" of body movement you lose.

thats my take anyway...
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Posted: Oct 8, 2007 at 19:37 Quote
That makes more sence, and after your 12" of body travel you bottom out to nuts on frame or seat up ass.. not a pretty picture
flag norcodj
Posted: Oct 8, 2007 at 19:51 Quote
plus flat landings really aren't any fun i would really rather land on a slope its got more flow and gives you more speed if u want to set up for something after the drop like most people would
flag mykeyinchains
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 8:05 Quote
It also depends on the surface you are flat landing on. Rarely do BMXers land on leafy, soft, forest material. This can help give the tire a larger footprint and help absorb the landing more. Dirt jumps do this too. The majority of flat spots I have seen have been the result of hard loads on a small footprint on the tire. (casing the lip of a jump, hitting rocks, landing on concrete, clipping a curb) When it comes to bmx bikes, they do have a smaller footprint but with a smaller rim, comes more strength.
flag glyn2six
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 8:07 Quote
Landing to flat on anything isn't good.
Its just basic Physics.
Land to flat on an FS and they have the habit of the front trying to rip the headtube off.
flag candymuffin
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 8:32 Quote
i'd much rather do a big drop to flat on my dj hardtail then my full sus dh bike, especially when going slowly. i find that on a hardtail you can predict when to use your body as suspension much better. I find i can't predict when my travel is going to end and i must start using my body on my dh bike. there are also other factors, you can't drop the tail first then put the nose down softly like on a hardtail, it just doesn't like doing that! and bottoming out sux more than anything.
flag mikeyboy
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 8:40 Quote
dobersteeze wrote:
Alot of it is speed and what your doing. When someone pedal kicks off their shed on a fully, that will hurt because your going straight down. When you hucking over something its so much smoother with forward momentum. I wont just straight drop a stair set, but I'll spin it. It's weird.

Please explain why. There is NO reason why you should land smoother in case you're carrying forward momentum. You'll still achieve the same amount of speed downwards.



emubritish wrote:
i think one of the big reasons has been covered, but not explained... bmx and skateboards are naturally smaller, and get less in the way with the body of the rider during a landing. i read a description of sam hill using his arms and legs as the suspension of the bike, and thats why he was so smooth. if you watch a skateboarder land a big drop, they are almost squatted after they land, they absorb almost all of the hit with their legs, and on a skateboard you can, there is nothing in the way. same for the most part on a bmx, the seat is so low, you can crouch a good 24" down most of the time, and you can also use your arms... now with a mountain bike, your ability to crouch is limited, probably less than half of what you can do with a bmx, unless your talking about a super-small street/dj bike, you maybe have 12" of clearance when standing. you do have the advantage of suspension, but generally thats no more than 8", and your joints are constantly variable in how stiff they are and have instantly variable rebound, so the 8" of suspension is no where near as effective as the 12" of body movement you lose.

thats my take anyway...

Ding ding ding. It's all about spreading the impact out, kind of like crumble zones on cars. If they can take away all the energy from a car crash of a length of 3ft it will be a lot less impact than 10". That's why new cars are designed to soak up the impact, instead of being able to run again.

When skiing you're able to soak up your impact from a 72" drop (6ft) drop) over a length of about 48" (4ft) (from crouching together). Same thing goes for skateboarding. When you're on a mountainbike, you can probably get 4" of suspension and 12" of soaking up. That means 16".
flag photoride
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 8:48 Quote
a flat landing, is all your weight and downward force going stright down, proper sloped landing, if you think about it you sort of hit it slower, get what i meen??

so you will hit it with less force
flag thatius3
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 10:45 Quote
This is somewhat related, would someone please care to explain the physics behind doing say a 10ft drop to flat and 10ft drop to tranny? Like obiously the tranny is going to be smoother but why? It's been puzzling me for quite some time now.
flag shacabahalla
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 10:50 Quote
one reason is that it just ain't very fun to do i would much rather go of a drop and land smooth rather than crunching into the ground and losing all my speed
flag harriieee
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 11:13 Quote
thatius3 wrote:
This is somewhat related, would someone please care to explain the physics behind doing say a 10ft drop to flat and 10ft drop to tranny? Like obiously the tranny is going to be smoother but why? It's been puzzling me for quite some time now.

Think of a perfect vertical tranny, curving away to flat. The bike makes perfect contact with the vertical tranny, and so no energy is released in the impact between the bike and landing, as the bike is still effectively in freefall. The curve away gradually releases the energy of the bike and rider's combined weight pushing down into the tranny, until you are riding along flat ground. Now when you land to flat, all the energy is released at once, not gradually, like a nice steep tranny.

It's the same principle of a car crash - the crumple zone at the front of the car means the stopping energy (aka. entropy) is released slower than if there was no crumpling effect absorbing the energy. It's all about the slower release of energy - like a curved graph - rather than a sudden burst of energy all at ounce. Landing to flat releases the same amount of energy as landing to downside, but the energy is released slower if you land to slope.

The smooth feeling of hitting a jump and landing with barely any impact is the feeling of minimum force released immediately, while the jerk you feel as a result of a flat landing is all the energy being released at once. You barely notice the rest of the energy being released as you ride out of the jump.
flag johnthewolf
FL
Posted: Oct 9, 2007 at 14:08 Quote
mikeyboy wrote:
dobersteeze wrote:
Alot of it is speed and what your doing. When someone pedal kicks off their shed on a fully, that will hurt because your going straight down. When you hucking over something its so much smoother with forward momentum. I wont just straight drop a stair set, but I'll spin it. It's weird.

Please explain why. There is NO reason why you should land smoother in case you're carrying forward momentum. You'll still achieve the same amount of speed downwards.

yes of course if you're just listening to your basic newtonian physic, the y component will not be affected by how much x speed you may have but that's theory. You must have already realized that it is indeed smoother when you go faster. Why's that? I can't explain and it's been puzzling me for a while. I mean, I know that no matter how much foawrd momentum you have, Earth is still pulling at you at 9.8 m/s^2 but you don't feel it as much when you're going faster.
My theory on this may be complete bullshit but here it goes. Say that with the speed you carry, you start landing at point A and completly establish contact at point B. I think that some of the energy you absorb when you land at point A is left at point A as you go forward and you continue to reveive and leave behind energy as you move until you reach point B where you receive the last bit of impact. So you reveive just a tiny bit if energy at each point instead of getting it all at once when you have 0 speed.

That's far etched, has no solid theory behind it, has no proof and is terribly explained but it's the best i've got on this point!

If you know more then I do, please enlighten me.

 


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