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My Wheel Building Guide

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My Wheel Building Guide
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flag Thorjensen
O+
Posted: Apr 21, 2021 at 11:39 Quote
Looli wrote:
Thorjensen wrote:
Looli wrote:
Are spank ERD trustable?

The answer you are not searching for is: Always measure the ERD yourself.
And regarding Spank I would ditch the nipple washers keep the tight side at 120 or 125kgf, use SecureLock nipples from Sapim. The washers made sense when Spank recommended 130-140kgf but right now i'm running 350/359 rims and ended up at 122kgf. No issues what so ever and still true and equal tension.

Thanks, what do you mean by ditch the nipple washers? I am building a set of spoon 32 with sapim race spokes and I plan to use washers

Ahhh. I dont think that Spoon or Oozy rims comes with washers like the 350/359 Vibro and non-Vibro does.

I dont see the point in using washers on such high quality rims and when/if you keep your tension at max 125kgf then you'll be just fine without. I know some builders always lace their wheels with washers but I dont. Never had a cracked Spank rim - even at 130kgf without washers.
flag lilaubert
O+
Posted: Apr 21, 2021 at 11:53 Quote
Yes my spoons did not come with washers
flag ibishreddin
Posted: Apr 29, 2021 at 21:12 Quote
Hey all. Would really appreciate some advice here:

Building up an Enduro racing wheel set on some DT Swiss EX471 rims. The question is to go with 28h rims with 2.0 single gauge spokes or 32h rims with double-butted spokes. Curious on thoughts about durability and ride characteristics of each.

Seems like most wheelsets are 32h db, but i9 enduro s is 28h sg which is why i ask. Thanks for the help
flag R-M-R
Posted: Apr 29, 2021 at 21:17 Quote
Avoid straight spokes whenever possible. With a butted spoke, the thinner centre section acts as a softer spring to reduce the peak forces on the more vulnerable ends of the spoke.
flag lilaubert
O+
Posted: May 1, 2021 at 20:02 Quote
I am checking my ERD on my 26 spoon 32 rims, found 529mm. Rim says 526.5++
Is it commun to find different ERD measurements?
flag ibishreddin
Posted: May 1, 2021 at 21:00 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Avoid straight spokes whenever possible. With a butted spoke, the thinner centre section acts as a softer spring to reduce the peak forces on the more vulnerable ends of the spoke.

That makes sense. 32db it is
flag R-M-R
Posted: May 1, 2021 at 21:10 Quote
Looli,

That can happen, unfortunately. Sometimes the vendor measures differently than how most people do it, sometimes there's no obvious reason for it, sometimes there's an expectation of using washers that aren't mentioned, maybe the vendor accounts for compression in the rim material, etc. In the case you've described, the difference is 1.25 mm per spoke, so at least it's a small discrepancy.

When in doubt, caution on the side of longer spokes. There are two remedies for too-long spokes:

1. Add nipple washers.
2. Use Double Square style nipples.


ibishreddin,

Perfect. You could even take it further and optimize the spokes to the stresses. For example, the bracing angles on either side a wheel are rarely the same. The ideal solution is to use thicker spokes (ex. 2.0 - 1.7 - 2.0) on the side with more stress and thinner spokes (ex. 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0) on the side with less stress.
flag lilaubert
O+
Posted: May 2, 2021 at 10:11 Quote
[Quote="R-M-R"]Looli,

That can happen, unfortunately. Sometimes the vendor measures differently than how most people do it, sometimes there's no obvious reason for it, sometimes there's an expectation of using washers that aren't mentioned, maybe the vendor accounts for compression in the rim material, etc. In the case you've described, the difference is 1.25 mm per spoke, so at least it's a small discrepancy.

When in doubt, caution on the side of longer spokes. There are two remedies for too-long spokes:

1. Add nipple washers.
2. Use Double Square style nipples.

Sounds good thanks
flag lilaubert
O+
Posted: May 2, 2021 at 10:11 Quote
Any recommendations for spokes on my 26 dirt jumper?
flag R-M-R
Posted: May 2, 2021 at 11:59 Quote
Looli wrote:
Any recommendations for spokes on my 26 dirt jumper?

Ideally, the best choice is almost always 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 round spokes. If you need more strength and stiffness, increase the spoke count. That may not be practical, of course, as it can be difficult to find hubs and rims with the ideal drillings.
flag Cura
Posted: May 19, 2021 at 2:37 Quote
Race face arc 31 carbon rim, 32 spoke holes.

-Would you guys use nipple washer on carbon rims? Recommended spoke tension for this rim is 100-120kgf. I’ve heard something about nipples melting on carbon rims due to carbon rim working as a bridge for electrons to move an causing oxidation on nipples (melting).

-not sure about the nipples yet but planning on using squorx or double square ones.
flag seraph
Posted: May 19, 2021 at 8:47 Quote
Cura wrote:
Race face arc 31 carbon rim, 32 spoke holes.

-Would you guys use nipple washer on carbon rims? Recommended spoke tension for this rim is 100-120kgf. I’ve heard something about nipples melting on carbon rims due to carbon rim working as a bridge for electrons to move an causing oxidation on nipples (melting).

-not sure about the nipples yet but planning on using squorx or double square ones.

I only use washers when recommended by the rim manufacturer.
flag privateer-wheels
Posted: Jun 19, 2021 at 9:59 Quote
seraph wrote:
Cura wrote:
Race face arc 31 carbon rim, 32 spoke holes.

-Would you guys use nipple washer on carbon rims? Recommended spoke tension for this rim is 100-120kgf. I’ve heard something about nipples melting on carbon rims due to carbon rim working as a bridge for electrons to move an causing oxidation on nipples (melting).

-not sure about the nipples yet but planning on using squorx or double square ones.

I only use washers when recommended by the rim manufacturer.

I use washers in every single carbon wheel I build. NOBL, We Are One, Crank Brothers Synthesis, yadda yadda. Every set. There are virtually zero drawbacks and lots of benefits as long as you pick the most suitable washer/nipple combo for the rim you are building.

RaceFace ARC 31 have in my opinion, having built them, and having cut them apart to see what they look like inside (I can send pics if you like), a very thin spoke bed. I definitely would not build them without washers. But that's just me.
flag Cura
Posted: Jun 19, 2021 at 10:10 Quote
privateer-wheels wrote:
seraph wrote:
Cura wrote:
Race face arc 31 carbon rim, 32 spoke holes.

-Would you guys use nipple washer on carbon rims? Recommended spoke tension for this rim is 100-120kgf. I’ve heard something about nipples melting on carbon rims due to carbon rim working as a bridge for electrons to move an causing oxidation on nipples (melting).

-not sure about the nipples yet but planning on using squorx or double square ones.

I only use washers when recommended by the rim manufacturer.

I use washers in every single carbon wheel I build. NOBL, We Are One, Crank Brothers Synthesis, yadda yadda. Every set. There are virtually zero drawbacks and lots of benefits as long as you pick the most suitable washer/nipple combo for the rim you are building.

RaceFace ARC 31 have in my opinion, having built them, and having cut them apart to see what they look like inside (I can send pics if you like), a very thin spoke bed. I definitely would not build them without washers. But that's just me.

I would love to see a photo of the spoke bed! I had Next-36 complete wheelset and it had spacers. Race face answered to me that spacers are not necessary and its up to the builder to use them or not. What ever that means...
flag seraph
Posted: Jun 19, 2021 at 10:25 Quote
privateer-wheels wrote:
seraph wrote:
Cura wrote:
Race face arc 31 carbon rim, 32 spoke holes.

-Would you guys use nipple washer on carbon rims? Recommended spoke tension for this rim is 100-120kgf. I’ve heard something about nipples melting on carbon rims due to carbon rim working as a bridge for electrons to move an causing oxidation on nipples (melting).

-not sure about the nipples yet but planning on using squorx or double square ones.

I only use washers when recommended by the rim manufacturer.

I use washers in every single carbon wheel I build. NOBL, We Are One, Crank Brothers Synthesis, yadda yadda. Every set. There are virtually zero drawbacks and lots of benefits as long as you pick the most suitable washer/nipple combo for the rim you are building.

RaceFace ARC 31 have in my opinion, having built them, and having cut them apart to see what they look like inside (I can send pics if you like), a very thin spoke bed. I definitely would not build them without washers. But that's just me.

What benefits are you claiming? I've built tons of carbon wheels without washers and never had problems with tension or rigidity.

 


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