Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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flag seraph
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 12:26 Quote
tom666 wrote:
fantaman wrote:
tom666 wrote:
SX cassette weighs 615g - around the same as the NX


XTR 9100 is 370g


Garbaruk's 320g


Eek

A note that 320g Garbaruk is for Shimano HG body & second it can only be used for 12sp Shimano drivetrains.

https://r2-bike.com/GARBARUK-Cassette-12-speed-10-50-Teeth-for-SRAM-XD

^they make them for Sram XD cassette bodies as well as Shimano HG. Admittedly its 334g instead of 320g.

I believe they would work on Sram Eagle. 12 speed chains are the same (same width, same distance between pins) whether they're Shimano or Sram (as far as I know) and I believe the Eagle derailleur will be happy with the spacing between cogs and the jumps in the cassette. It might not work quite as well as well as the parts that are fully intended for each other, but I think it will be at least 90% as good.

If I'm wrong about any of this please correct me.

PHeller wrote:
I've always felt that weight is a function of dollar per pound, or value.

If you can get a 140/150mm 29er that weighs 31lbs for $2500, but spending another $2500 really only sheds 2lbs, than that bike is pretty good to begin with.

Like RMR said, there are some pretty good weight bikes for bargain - Bird AM9, Privateer 161, Commencal Meta 29, Knolly Fugitive, hell the Scott Genius and Ransom in alloy are still pretty good.

What I cant understand is paying lots of money for something that is heavier than cheaper competitors. The new Yeti's, S-Works Specialized bikes, Pivot's Enduro lineup, etc. All of the brands have beefed up their carbon frames for better reliability while charging higher and higher prices so the consumer ends up paying $1500-$2000 more for a bike that weighs the same with the same suspension setup.

My Guerrilla Gravity isn't the lightest, but I still think it's a decent value. It's among one the cheapest carbon frames on the market, more in line with alloy prices. It's durable, and modular, so although my 120mm Trail Pistol weighs 30lbs, I could get a 145mm Smash at the same weight, or got even bigger with a 165mm Megatrail 29er setup (althought I'd need a bigger fork for that.)

I absolutely agree with the point you've made but I think you may have misspoke putting the Commencal Meta in the good weight bikes category. Even the very high end Meta 29s are 34lbs. The cheaper ones are 35 or 36.

$3900 Meta AM 29 is 16.1kg (35.5 lbs) in size L with no pedals

Also, I would still buy an Sb150, Enduro, Firebird etc - if I lived somewhere where I did a large amount of uplift riding - the alps or wales or something - they make a tonne of sense. The amount of wear you can put on a bike when you have access to uplifts is just crazy. Those bikes are going to hold up to that abuse super well - likely some of the strongest bikes ever not to be full on DH bikes - and they still climb fine on occasions that you're not uplifting.

If all my riding involves pedalling up first I'd be thinking Scott Ransom or something else, particularly if I was racing.

I think this is the link you meant to use.
flag tom666
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 12:53 Quote
seraph wrote:

I think this is the link you meant to use.


That's the 320g Shimano HG one, there is also the Sram XD one at 334g, which I provided a link to.
flag seraph
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 13:11 Quote
tom666 wrote:
seraph wrote:

I think this is the link you meant to use.


That's the 320g Shimano HG one, there is also the Sram XD one at 334g, which I provided a link to.

Correct, but OP asked about replacement for an SX cassette, which uses an HG driver.
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 13:18 Quote
How similar are Ohlin and Fox 36?

Like, could dampers and what not be switched between them?
flag tom666
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 13:33 Quote
seraph wrote:
tom666 wrote:
seraph wrote:

I think this is the link you meant to use.


That's the 320g Shimano HG one, there is also the Sram XD one at 334g, which I provided a link to.

Correct, but OP asked about replacement for an SX cassette, which uses an HG driver.

Yee.

OP wants the HG one.

I believe the HG one will be fine to use with Eagle chain and derailleur because as far as I know the chain width and spacing is the same for all 12 speed chains whether shimano or sram.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 13:48 Quote
PHeller wrote:
My Rekon 2.6 is on a 27mm rims and still relatively flat tread.

I've got a Hellkat 2.6 that I might hold off on using until I get 30mm rims, though.

The Hellkat measures slightly over the nominal width, even at the casing. It's huge. The sidewalls are flexible and the tread is the most wrapped I've encountered, so the side lugs require a tremendous amount of lean angle. I have it on a 36 mm (internal) rim and it could easily handle wider. It's a monster.


PHeller wrote:
What I cant understand is paying lots of money for something that is heavier than cheaper competitors.

Weight is only a small factor in performance. The AM9 is not a stiff bike, for example. The Privateer may be stiffer and only barely heavier, so maybe it strikes the right balance. The new Enduro is surely stiffer than the AM9, is rated for a longer fork, and it has two extra links to modify the motion ratio; I question the value of the latter, but at least it explains some of the weight and cost. Devinci frames are never light, but they're super stiff and I don't hear of many failures. Yeti, however, has some explaining to do.
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 13:59 Quote
I'd be curious to see the AM9 vs 161 vs Guerrila Gravity Megatrail in terms of suspension kinematics. All are Horst Link, but that huge rocker on the 161 is something.

Good to know about the Hellcat. I think I'm going to put a DHRII on the front with the Nevegal out back. I have too many rear tires!
flag deli-hustler
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 14:13 Quote
tom666 wrote:
seraph wrote:
tom666 wrote:



That's the 320g Shimano HG one, there is also the Sram XD one at 334g, which I provided a link to.

Correct, but OP asked about replacement for an SX cassette, which uses an HG driver.

Yee.

OP wants the HG one.

I believe the HG one will be fine to use with Eagle chain and derailleur because as far as I know the chain width and spacing is the same for all 12 speed chains whether shimano or sram.

Cheers guys. My bike needs a diet (so do I but that's for somewhere else) and I thought the cassette would be an easy place to start.
flag tom666
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 14:18 Quote
deli-hustler wrote:
tom666 wrote:
seraph wrote:


Correct, but OP asked about replacement for an SX cassette, which uses an HG driver.

Yee.

OP wants the HG one.

I believe the HG one will be fine to use with Eagle chain and derailleur because as far as I know the chain width and spacing is the same for all 12 speed chains whether shimano or sram.

Cheers guys. My bike needs a diet (so do I but that's for somewhere else) and I thought the cassette would be an easy place to start.

Very good place to start, saves a considerable amount of weight for reasonable money, doesn't sacrifice durability or downhill performance significantly.

Cranks can be another good place if yours are porky.
flag seraph
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 14:27 Quote
I was just thinking about the differences in intended terrain as well when it comes to bike weight. If you live in an area where your local trails have a fair amount of well-groomed, manicured jumps and drops with good transitions, then I feel like weight is going to be less of an issue. But if you're in an area where your trails are more erratic and you spend more time lifting the front wheel and hopping over obstacles, then a lighter bike (to a point, relative to suspension travel and riding style) will be a greater benefit. Of course suspension tuning can also factor into how easy it is to get the bike off the ground to some extent.

TL;DR: some bikes are light, some are heavy. Bikes are cool. Do what makes you happy.
flag mtbman1980
O+
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 14:35 Quote
I have a mix of trail types in my area almost 50/50 with well groomed smooth trails then the alternative is fast/rough steepish trails. Throw in some steep slow speed tech and it almost makes a case for 2 bikes but I usually like to mix it all up in one ride if I can.

So yeah bikes are fun and cool.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 14:52 Quote
PHeller wrote:
I have too many rear tires!

There's no such thing as a rear tire, only ex-front tires that are living out their final days.


PHeller wrote:
I'd be curious to see the AM9 vs 161 vs Guerrila Gravity Megatrail in terms of suspension kinematics. All are Horst Link, but that huge rocker on the 161 is something.

FINE, but you're getting the Smash, not the Megatrail, since it's more similar to the other two.

Kinematics comparison Privateer 161 Bird AM9 v1 GG Smash

Kinematics comparison Privateer 161 Bird AM9 v1 GG Smash

Kinematics comparison Privateer 161 Bird AM9 v1 GG Smash

Kinematics comparison Privateer 161 Bird AM9 v1 GG Smash

Kinematics comparison Privateer 161 Bird AM9 v1 GG Smash
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 15:03 Quote
Any analysis to go with those? I'm rusty on interpreting graphs these days.
flag tom666
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 15:03 Quote
PHeller wrote:
I have too many rear tires

I have a dislike for changing tires. Until it is just unbearable I will continue.


Have an aggressor on the back atm and told myself I would change it for a DHR2 come winter. It's February 24th and I still haven't done it.


Spring soon tho and I'll have the right tire again Jailbreak
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 24, 2020 at 15:06 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Any analysis to go with those? I'm rusty on interpreting graphs these days.

Yes, all the analysis. Could you be more specific?

 


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