Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 16:41 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
I have been riding nothing but the Levo since last September.. Probably 30-40 rides since then with zero time on any other bikes. I definitely don't really have any issue with jumping it or tossing it around on the trail.

Dad and I went for a ride last week and he rode my Levo and I jumped on my "not exactly light" 34lb steel Hardtail.. It was absolutely silly how light and playful the hardtail felt to jump.. And then going back to the Levo I definitely noticed how adapted I had gotten to its weight.

I could see the appeal of the Levo SL now.
shirk-007 wrote:
https://forestal.com/en/home

How about a 38.4 lbs ebike. What is your Levo weight?

I can't decide whether this is on topic.
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 16:47 Quote
shirk-007 wrote:
https://forestal.com/en/home

How about a 38.4 lbs ebike. What is your Levo weight?

My XL Levo is 49.8lbs with the DVO Onyx, DH tires and cushcore.

Although that was with the 500w battery.. The 700w I have in it now is another 600g heavier I believe.. So over 50lbs.
flag riish
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 16:57 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
shirk-007 wrote:
https://forestal.com/en/home

How about a 38.4 lbs ebike. What is your Levo weight?

My XL Levo is 49.8lbs with the DVO Onyx, DH tires and cushcore.

Although that was with the 500w battery.. The 700w I have in it now is another 600g heavier I believe.. So over 50lbs.

Grams and lbs in the same post Razz
flag riish
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 17:07 Quote
Off topic, but just out of curiosity: has anyone tried the STFU bike units?
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 17:51 Quote
riish wrote:
Off topic, but just out of curiosity: has anyone tried the STFU bike units?

https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=218687
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 18:08 Quote
riish wrote:
Off topic, but just out of curiosity: has anyone tried the STFU bike units?

When Kavorik did his seeding run on my M1 at The NW cup last spring, I saw it 10 mins later and he had 3 of those STFU things on there, 2 on the chainstay and 1 on the seat stay upside down..

His words were something along the lines of "f*ck me, I forgot how f*cking loud these bikes were" haha.


They definitely cut down the noise a bunch on that old non clutch 9s drivetrain that I had on the M1 and worked well on my M9 as well.. Never played with on on a trail bike though.
flag riish
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 19:01 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
riish wrote:
Off topic, but just out of curiosity: has anyone tried the STFU bike units?

https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=218687

Salute thanks!

Wonder if I can figure out a way to fit a 11-32 model to an 11-36 cassette. The height difference between the 32 and 36 seems to be 7mm from a quick measure of my bike, maybe sliding the unit slightly along the chainstay will produce enough clearance.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 19:09 Quote
I'm going to quote you in that thread to move the conversation there.
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 22:04 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
PHeller wrote:
There was huge progress between 2000-2010, but aside from big wheels and longer geometry, not a lot has changed in the last 8-10 years.

Well, except the Fox Float CTD. Glad we're past those days.

• Geometry has completely changed how bikes fit and handle. (but has geometry changed more in the last 10 years, or the decade before that?)
• Stem lengths dropped by almost half. (I know a lot of people who were riding 50mm stems back in 2011)
• 700c wheels came on strong, gave way to 650b, and are now mostly dominant again. (Aggressive 29ers were still sorta rare in 2011)
• Pedaling kinematics have changed a great deal. (but here again, have they change more since 2011 than they did between 2000-2010?)
• Air shocks have proper negative springs. (we've made good progress in air spring tech, but the shocks still look similar. See the CTD vs DPS.)
• Motion ratios are no longer designed to compensate for wonky spring curves. (not really a visible trait.)
• The front derailleur vanished and chains stay on by themselves.(front derailleurs were on their way out back in 2011.)
• Dropper posts became standard equipment. (but they existed in 2011, very few existed in 2000)
• Fat bikes emerged. (they were around before 2011)
• Plus tires came and went, but they left us with 2.6", which is far larger than old-school 2.7".
• Rims increased in width by about 40%.
• Tire compounds are stickier, yet also roll faster.
• Tubeless tires took over.
• e-bikes are out-selling human-powered bikes at many price points in many markets.
• Saddles have large channels and / or cut-outs and my junk really appreciates it.

Sorry I should have been more specific. A bike from 2000 looks, functions, and has parts wildly different from a produced in 2010. Comparing a bike from 2010 to 2020, they look (at least at quick glance) more similar, with a few exceptions, and bigger wheels.

My buddies v3 Nomad runs pretty much the same brakes as I do, same 11spd setup, same bar widths, same suspension, both setup tubeless with droppers. I can hop on his bike and follow him, albeit clumsily, through pretty much the same lines. I could not do that on a bike made in 2000. If I could, I likely couldn't pedal it up hill.

You can take a bike from 2011, strip the parts off, and in most cases apply them to a modern bike.

In 2011, I'm not sure you could have done the same from a bike produced in 2000. Disc brakes, tapered steerer, big changes in seat tube size, bar width, tubeless tires, huge changes in suspension standards, etc.

photo
photo
photo
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 24, 2020 at 23:50 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Sorry I should have been more specific. A bike from 2000 looks, functions, and has parts wildly different from a produced in 2010. Comparing a bike from 2010 to 2020, they look (at least at quick glance) more similar, with a few exceptions, and bigger wheels.

My buddies v3 Nomad runs pretty much the same brakes as I do, same 11spd setup, same bar widths, same suspension, both setup tubeless with droppers. I can hop on his bike and follow him, albeit clumsily, through pretty much the same lines. I could not do that on a bike made in 2000. If I could, I likely couldn't pedal it up hill.

You can take a bike from 2011, strip the parts off, and in most cases apply them to a modern bike.

In 2011, I'm not sure you could have done the same from a bike produced in 2000. Disc brakes, tapered steerer, big changes in seat tube size, bar width, tubeless tires, huge changes in suspension standards, etc.

There are some good points in there. First, though, I'd like to level the playing field!

The first photo is of a Stumpjumper FSR XC, the frame for which debuted in 1999. The second is a 2011 Stumpjumper, which debuted in 2010. The third is the SJ EVO, based on a 2018 model year frame. Visually, we're looking at eleven years for the first pair and eight for the second. Eleven is 37.5% more than eight.

The 2001 Turner RFX below was a dropper post and a chainring away from being a 2013 Stumpjumper - and arguably more modern than a 2012 Santa Cruz Butcher. Of course one example of a prescient design doesn't prove an absence of evolution between 2001 and 2013. If I was going to try that trick, I'd show the early-90s Pace RC500, which isn't far off a modern downcountry bike. But I digress ...

photo

Considering period-typical bikes and considering similar categories of bikes (the 1999 FSR XC was more akin to the Epic EVO, despite sharing the Stumpjumper name), the changes from c.2000 - 2010 were most pronounced in the aesthetics and the changes in the last decade have been more pronounced in the fit and ride characteristics.
flag Losvar
Posted: Mar 25, 2020 at 2:42 Quote
scjeremy wrote:
dchill wrote:
SDG Tellis inexpensive and user serviceable
Plus one of if not the lightest action available. Like butter.

SDG Tellis is easily my favourite dropper so far, the lever feel is absolutely amazing, and it's just sooo smooth in every way.
It's also priced reasonably unlike a lot of lesser dropper posts.
flag Soupherb
Posted: Mar 25, 2020 at 4:15 Quote
Losvar wrote:
scjeremy wrote:
dchill wrote:
SDG Tellis inexpensive and user serviceable
Plus one of if not the lightest action available. Like butter.

SDG Tellis is easily my favourite dropper so far, the lever feel is absolutely amazing, and it's just sooo smooth in every way.
It's also priced reasonably unlike a lot of lesser dropper posts.

Your operating it at sub-zero temperatures too right?
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Mar 25, 2020 at 8:08 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
If I was going to try that trick, I'd show the early-90s Pace RC500, which isn't far off a modern downcountry bike. But I digress ...

That bikes blows my mind. How it didn't dominate the DH circuit of its time (199Cool is beyond me.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 25, 2020 at 8:26 Quote
PHeller wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
If I was going to try that trick, I'd show the early-90s Pace RC500, which isn't far off a modern downcountry bike. But I digress ...

That bikes blows my mind. How it didn't dominate the DH circuit of its time (1998 ) is beyond me.

Must be more about the rider than the bike!

My understanding is the second generation of the RC 500, with the symmetrical swingarm, was 1998. The one I linked was the first generation and at least five years earlier, making it even more remarkable. Please correct me if my dates are off.
flag Client9
Posted: Mar 25, 2020 at 8:39 Quote
R-M-R wrote:

photo


If I may...
I have a 2002 Turner XCE frame for sale.
How can I determine it's value?
It's just like this one.
2002 Turner xce 4

thanks!

 


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