The Sexiest AM/FR/Enduro Hardtail Thread (Please read the opening post)

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The Sexiest AM/FR/Enduro Hardtail Thread (Please read the opening post)
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flag drBunhead
O+
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 7:32 Quote
Soupherb wrote:
Dawley Rallye

photo

Wow
flag Bitelio
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 9:06 Quote
Soupherb wrote:
Bitelio wrote:
BTR??

New- Dawley Rallye

Those seat stays are ‘oh so’ similar
Cheers!
Indeed they are. It tricked me.
flag jesse-effing-edwards
O+
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 9:54 Quote
Orange bike is pretty cool. Definitely helps having a cool photo. I don't really like silver forks, but that shot makes it all look good. I may love the pinkfork bike
flag ThomDawley
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 11:22 Quote
I could tell you that the seatstays aren’t exactly the same as Burf’s (I don’t think) and yet that the entire front triangle is the same as Burf’s - as are most other steel-built small-scale mtb frames because we just don’t have a huge amount of choice. Everyone uses the same small selection of suitable tubes or makes their own which are also v similar. The difference is in the geometry, etc.

BUT credit where it’s due - Burf is the #1 builder using chainstays as seat stays afaik. Tbh I’d have done almost anything to not have it look like somebody else’s work but the tube just makes so much sense for this frame I couldn’t not do it. So fair play to Burf for figuring that out first.

Ps hope you guys don’t mind me lurking here on occasion. I’m a hardtail nerd. Throw me out if it ain’t cool, maybe it isn’t.

I thought that Kona was sick though!
flag Red-October
O+
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 11:44 Quote
Thanks for the comment. The bike looks really good, that's what matters in the end.

You don't bother us at all, in fact this thread is designed exactly for people like you ...
flag threeofswords
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 13:55 Quote
Red-October wrote:
Thanks for the comment. The bike looks really good, that's what matters in the end.

You don't bother us at all, in fact this thread is designed exactly for people like you ...

This
flag Dimebolt22b
Posted: May 19, 2022 at 14:43 Quote
It's good to hear from the actual purveyors of such sexiness Thom. Keep up the good work, loving what you do!
flag ThomDawley
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 0:06 Quote
Thanks guys! I don’t wanna spoil the fun. Feel free to rag on my bikes if you see something you don’t like lol and I’ll try to refrain from becoming defensive!
flag nullzwo
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 0:20 Quote
ThomDawley wrote:
Ps hope you guys don’t mind me lurking here on occasion. I’m a hardtail nerd. Throw me out if it ain’t cool, maybe it isn’t.


if you're a hardtail nerd, this is the place to be. i enjoy reading an engineers/ framebuilders perspective on some things (e.g. chainstays as seatstays), because they often have insights i don't have. and do not fear us holding back on mocking a not-exactly-sexy bike, because opening post.
flag Red-October
O+
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 0:31 Quote
The truth is... roasting quality people is even better!... lol Salute
flag 93EXCivic
O+
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 6:38 Quote
ThomDawley wrote:
I could tell you that the seatstays aren’t exactly the same as Burf’s (I don’t think) and yet that the entire front triangle is the same as Burf’s - as are most other steel-built small-scale mtb frames because we just don’t have a huge amount of choice. Everyone uses the same small selection of suitable tubes or makes their own which are also v similar. The difference is in the geometry, etc.

BUT credit where it’s due - Burf is the #1 builder using chainstays as seat stays afaik. Tbh I’d have done almost anything to not have it look like somebody else’s work but the tube just makes so much sense for this frame I couldn’t not do it. So fair play to Burf for figuring that out first.

Ps hope you guys don’t mind me lurking here on occasion. I’m a hardtail nerd. Throw me out if it ain’t cool, maybe it isn’t.

What is the reason for using chainstays as seat stays?
flag ThomDawley
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 6:49 Quote
93EXCivic wrote:
ThomDawley wrote:
I could tell you that the seatstays aren’t exactly the same as Burf’s (I don’t think) and yet that the entire front triangle is the same as Burf’s - as are most other steel-built small-scale mtb frames because we just don’t have a huge amount of choice. Everyone uses the same small selection of suitable tubes or makes their own which are also v similar. The difference is in the geometry, etc.

BUT credit where it’s due - Burf is the #1 builder using chainstays as seat stays afaik. Tbh I’d have done almost anything to not have it look like somebody else’s work but the tube just makes so much sense for this frame I couldn’t not do it. So fair play to Burf for figuring that out first.

Ps hope you guys don’t mind me lurking here on occasion. I’m a hardtail nerd. Throw me out if it ain’t cool, maybe it isn’t.

What is the reason for using chainstays as seat stays?

Just the same reasons that I’d select any other seat stay tube, really. It fits the criteria, that’s all. They have a really good bend and shape for tyre clearance on this frame (I always design around larger tyres), good amount of material, good weight. And for this particular frame I wasn’t looking to aid compliance at all - the opposite in fact. I wanted the rear end to be stiff, snappy pedalling and responsive to ride so the nature of ‘chainstays’ just fits the bill in every way.
flag jesse-effing-edwards
O+
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 6:52 Quote
Red-October wrote:
The truth is... roasting quality people is even better!... lol Salute
that is correct.
flag jesse-effing-edwards
O+
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 6:55 Quote
ThomDawley wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
ThomDawley wrote:
I could tell you that the seatstays aren’t exactly the same as Burf’s (I don’t think) and yet that the entire front triangle is the same as Burf’s - as are most other steel-built small-scale mtb frames because we just don’t have a huge amount of choice. Everyone uses the same small selection of suitable tubes or makes their own which are also v similar. The difference is in the geometry, etc.

BUT credit where it’s due - Burf is the #1 builder using chainstays as seat stays afaik. Tbh I’d have done almost anything to not have it look like somebody else’s work but the tube just makes so much sense for this frame I couldn’t not do it. So fair play to Burf for figuring that out first.

Ps hope you guys don’t mind me lurking here on occasion. I’m a hardtail nerd. Throw me out if it ain’t cool, maybe it isn’t.

What is the reason for using chainstays as seat stays?

Just the same reasons that I’d select any other seat stay tube, really. It fits the criteria, that’s all. They have a really good bend and shape for tyre clearance on this frame (I always design around larger tyres), good amount of material, good weight. And for this particular frame I wasn’t looking to aid compliance at all - the opposite in fact. I wanted the rear end to be stiff, snappy pedalling and responsive to ride so the nature of ‘chainstays’ just fits the bill in every way.

Does it make a substantial difference in compliance compared to a normal aggro hardtail? I would think the rear stays would have to be quite noodly to get any real change - hardtails are hard! My old honzo with those flattened stays didn't add any substantial forgiveness. Man, that bike feels like a lifetime ago. Still looks pretty cool:
2016 Honzo ST.
flag ThomDawley
Posted: May 20, 2022 at 8:19 Quote
jesse-effing-edwards wrote:
ThomDawley wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:


What is the reason for using chainstays as seat stays?

Just the same reasons that I’d select any other seat stay tube, really. It fits the criteria, that’s all. They have a really good bend and shape for tyre clearance on this frame (I always design around larger tyres), good amount of material, good weight. And for this particular frame I wasn’t looking to aid compliance at all - the opposite in fact. I wanted the rear end to be stiff, snappy pedalling and responsive to ride so the nature of ‘chainstays’ just fits the bill in every way.

Does it make a substantial difference in compliance compared to a normal aggro hardtail? I would think the rear stays would have to be quite noodly to get any real change - hardtails are hard! My old honzo with those flattened stays didn't add any substantial forgiveness. Man, that bike feels like a lifetime ago. Still looks pretty cool:
2016 Honzo ST.

No - your feelings are correct. Especially when considering mtb where we’re using pretty big tyres. You won’t feel a noticeable difference from one design to the next as far as dead-vertical compliance goes. If you roll off a curb in the saddle it’ll feel the same.
But…I do think we can aid lateral compliance a little. What I try to do is to improve grip, if you have grip you can do anything. And I think lateral flex and compliance can aid that.
And even though the axle is pretty much never gonna budge in a vertical plane, I reckon that shooting for some flex will help to absorb vibration rather than transmitting it all right into your ankles/ wrists. Which is something steel can do very well.

 


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