Shimano long-short, midium cage confusion. HELP

PB Forum :: 29ers
Shimano long-short, midium cage confusion. HELP
  • Previous Page
Author Message
flag Grihost
Posted: Apr 29, 2012 at 12:45 Quote
Hey guys...my build is hitting a snag with lots of conflicting advice especially with the drive train. I have a Shimano Ultegra RD-6700 GS Rear Derailleur mid cage and a Shimano Ultegra Front Derailleur P/N: FD6700C-L Clamp On 31.8mm FD.

The confusion is:

1. I am told that the RD 6700 mid cage only works with triple cranks ONLY - yet some places, I read that it works with standard and compact cranksets
2. The FD6700C-L is a double and does not work on triples- I need a double RD for this to be useful

I am I screwed or is there a way to make these things work with a double...my crank is a SHIMANO ULTEGRA FC-6700 Grey 172.5mm 39/53t

By the way, I also have a new shimano ultegra FD-6600G-BS....could it work with the RD-6700?
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Apr 30, 2012 at 11:18 Quote
Grihost wrote:
Hey guys...my build is hitting a snag with lots of conflicting advice especially with the drive train. I have a Shimano Ultegra RD-6700 GS Rear Derailleur mid cage and a Shimano Ultegra Front Derailleur P/N: FD6700C-L Clamp On 31.8mm FD.

The confusion is:

1. I am told that the RD 6700 mid cage only works with triple cranks ONLY - yet some places, I read that it works with standard and compact cranksets
2. The FD6700C-L is a double and does not work on triples- I need a double RD for this to be useful

I am I screwed or is there a way to make these things work with a double...my crank is a SHIMANO ULTEGRA FC-6700 Grey 172.5mm 39/53t

By the way, I also have a new shimano ultegra FD-6600G-BS....could it work with the RD-6700?
A mid-cage rear d will work fine with a double... it's just longer than is necessary. The cage length determines the amount of chain 'slack' the cage can pick up... A mid cage can take up more chain than a short cage so it needed for a triple but not necessary for a double since there's less chain slack in going between a 50/34 or 53/39 double than there would be on a wider range triple. That said, it won't cause any problems running a longer cage than is necessary.
flag Grihost
Posted: May 1, 2012 at 7:06 Quote
Grihost wrote:
A mid-cage rear d will work fine with a double... it's just longer than is necessary. The cage length determines the amount of chain 'slack' the cage can pick up... A mid cage can take up more chain than a short cage so it needed for a triple but not necessary for a double since there's less chain slack in going between a 50/34 or 53/39 double than there would be on a wider range triple. That said, it won't cause any problems running a longer cage than is necessary.[/Quote]

kewl thanks mate. Now with regards to the Cassette, I got a Shimano Ultegra CS-6700 Cassette 10- speed 12-25. Would that play well or do I need a different sizing?
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 1, 2012 at 9:53 Quote
That'll be fine... all road derailleurs can take up to a 28t rear cassette without issue.
flag deeeight
O+
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 8:56 Quote
Most road derailleurs from shimano can handle up to a 32T cog just fine.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 9:51 Quote
deeeight wrote:
Most road derailleurs from shimano can handle up to a 32T cog just fine.
No... they can't.

Note what it says under specifications...
flag deeeight
O+
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 10:41 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
deeeight wrote:
Most road derailleurs from shimano can handle up to a 32T cog just fine.
No... they can't.

Note what it says under specifications...

Yes, they can. I've done so with them for TWENTY YEARS. What shimano says under their specifications is a conservative rating put there to get buyers to spend money on models/products they don't actually need. Any experienced/competent mechanic in the bike world knows this. Shimano is still measuring the maximum cog clearance around a laboratory setup of a derailleur hanger length as they were positioned on steel frame road bikes of the 1980s. But mountain bike frames have used longer hangers than road bikes for decades now, and many road bikes today have longer hangers than they did thirty years ago. But shimano still puts up artificially low numbers on cog clearances because why would brands buy X expensive derailleur if they knew Y cheaper one would work just as well.

They do the same thing with the speed compatibility crap. With the exception of the 7-8 speed SIS era DuraAce rear derailleurs and rear shifters and the 10 speed DynaSys mtb rear derailleurs and rear shifters, ALL shimano SIS compatible rear derailleurs have used the exact same shifter cable pull / derailleur parallelogram leverage ratio design. A 10 speed 7900 Dura Ace SS cage rear derailleur will shift perfectly using an $8 Shimano Tourney 6 speed SIS shifter across a 6 speed 14-28 freewheel and a vice versa, a cheap $9 Tourney SIS rear derailleur will shift across a ten speed cassette shifted by a 7900 series DA shifter.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 10:54 Quote
deeeight wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
deeeight wrote:
Most road derailleurs from shimano can handle up to a 32T cog just fine.
No... they can't.

Note what it says under specifications...

Yes, they can. I've done so with them for TWENTY YEARS. What shimano says under their specifications is a conservative rating put there to get buyers to spend money on models/products they don't actually need. Any experienced/competent mechanic in the bike world knows this. Shimano is still measuring the maximum cog clearance around a laboratory setup of a derailleur hanger length as they were positioned on steel frame road bikes of the 1980s. But mountain bike frames have used longer hangers than road bikes for decades now, and many road bikes today have longer hangers than they did thirty years ago. But shimano still puts up artificially low numbers on cog clearances because why would brands buy X expensive derailleur if they knew Y cheaper one would work just as well.

They do the same thing with the speed compatibility crap. With the exception of the 7-8 speed SIS era DuraAce rear derailleurs and rear shifters and the 10 speed DynaSys mtb rear derailleurs and rear shifters, ALL shimano SIS compatible rear derailleurs have used the exact same shifter cable pull / derailleur parallelogram leverage ratio design. A 10 speed 7900 Dura Ace SS cage rear derailleur will shift perfectly using an $8 Shimano Tourney 6 speed SIS shifter across a 6 speed 14-28 freewheel and a vice versa, a cheap $9 Tourney SIS rear derailleur will shift across a ten speed cassette shifted by a 7900 series DA shifter.
LMAO... Just cause you've been doing it for "TWENTY YEARS" doesn't mean you've been doing it right.

You're welcome to hack together whatever the f*ck you want... don't give your shit advice to other people unless you're willing to state that it's strictly your shit advice.
flag deeeight
O+
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 11:36 Quote
Yeah...because you're just a fountain of knowledge and information that's factual and correct. I've seen your posts about Obama. And nothing you've said on either that or this subject has been true soo... people shouldn't pay any attention to you more than they pay attention to the average mosquito. You're a whole lot of whine and not much bite. Its ironic you mention below your avatar about a stupid persons plague since you've obviously been a carrier for it for quite some time.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 11:55 Quote
deeeight wrote:
Yeah...because you're just a fountain of knowledge and information that's factual and correct. I've seen your posts about Obama. And nothing you've said on either that or this subject has been true soo... people shouldn't pay any attention to you more than they pay attention to the average mosquito. You're a whole lot of whine and not much bite. Its ironic you mention below your avatar about a stupid persons plague since you've obviously been a carrier for it for quite some time.
Awwww... silly old douchebag got his feelings hurt?

Obama has nothing to do with short cage derailleurs... Shimano's own documentation, on the other hand, does... Don't get all butt hurt cause you're talking out of your ass and got called on it. Learn to read the documentation... It doens't get any more "true" than that, pure and simple. As for the rest of it... I piss more intelligence before 9am than a dumb old shit like you has come by in his life and that you would presume that you know more about Obama or American politics than an American only furthers the point that your head is burried so far up your own ass you're using your prostate as a microphone for voicing your ignorance.

It is cute how hard you're trying to troll though...
flag deeeight
O+
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 11:59 Quote
I am a TWENTY plus year experience bike mechanic, often asked by major magazine editors to find out if I'm in the bike industry after they've read my posts, and who's custom built HUNDREDS of bikes for paying clients. What are your qualifications ? You can quote from a shimano manual sure but if you asked that to any real bike mechanics who actually work on bikes for a living, or many team mechanics who have to setup bikes for professionals, or countless others who really know also... if shimano prints stuff that isn't strictly true, to drive sales... that they'd tell you that Yes, shimano does print false shit, and that you're an idiot for believing otherwise.

The only trolling going on here is yours.

And since you're so big on quoting shimano... then explain genius why you declare them as working with 28T cogs when shimano has had many road derailleurs which are only stated to work with 26T or 27T cogs ?
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 12:12 Quote
deeeight wrote:
I am a TWENTY plus year experience bike mechanic, often asked by major magazine editors to find out if I'm in the bike industry after they've read my posts, and who's custom built HUNDREDS of bikes for paying clients. What are your qualifications ? You can quote from a shimano manual sure but if you asked that to any real bike mechanics who actually work on bikes for a living, or many team mechanics who have to setup bikes for professionals, or countless others who really know also... if shimano prints stuff that isn't strictly true, to drive sales... that they'd tell you that Yes, shimano does print false shit, and that you're an idiot for believing otherwise.

The only trolling going on here is yours.

And since you're so big on quoting shimano... then explain genius why you declare them as working with 28T cogs when shimano has had many road derailleurs which are only stated to work with 26T or 27T cogs ?
You can put it in caps as much as you want but the fact that you've been doing something for "TWENTY" years doesn't mean you've been doing it right. As for magazine editors often asking you anything, I call bullshit... pics or it didn't happen as they say. I know several team mechanics and my own personal mechanic has worked for pro teams in both mountain and road racing... and he just confirmed exactly what I said when asked so there goes your whole "who actually work on bike for a living argument". All modern short cage road dearailleurs are setup to work with 28t cogs, period end of story... Argue, bitch, moan, and carry on like a school girl all you want. Facts are facts. You may be able to get it to work in other circumstances but its designed for what its designed for, it's that simple. As for what Shimano "has had" it has nothing to do with the topic at hand which are current derailleurs.

Now please, shut the f*ck up and crawl back inside whatever cave you were living in before you got a hair up your as about spreading your stupidity.
flag deeeight
O+
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 12:22 Quote
My my, now who's acting like a douchebag... you can swear like a sailor but it still doesn't make it true or lend you any credibility.

Fine, not that I really believe a photo will shut you up or anything...

Here's a screen capture of the message Richard Cunningham sent me a few weeks ago...

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/rcasksme.JPG
And here's an image of a Ultegra 6703 GS cage rear derailleur on a bike, with a 11-32 Deore XT 9speed cassette and 29/44T chainrings. It shifted perfectly and ran smoothly. Of course this is totally outside your mechanical skillset to duplicate I'm sure.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/uberlight1.JPGUnsecure image, only https images allowed: http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/uberlight4.JPG
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 12:29 Quote
deeeight wrote:
My my, now who's acting like a douchebag... you can swear like a sailor but it still doesn't make it true or lend you any credibility.

Fine, not that I really believe a photo will shut you up or anything...

Here's a screen capture of the message Richard Cunningham sent me a few weeks ago...

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/rcasksme.JPG
And here's an image of a Ultegra 6703 GS cage rear derailleur on a bike, with a 11-32 Deore XT 9speed cassette and 29/44T chainrings. It shifted perfectly and ran smoothly. Of course this is totally outside your mechanical skillset to duplicate I'm sure.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/uberlight1.JPGUnsecure image, only https images allowed: http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/uberlight4.JPG
That was good for a laugh... RC praises you once and you think you're an authority now and that media types are 'often' hitting you up... Elll Ohhh Elll...

As for the rest of that post and the pics of your ugly ass beater... thank you for proving my point. Clearly you don't know wtf your talking about since you just posted pics of a medium cage derailleur, not a short cage. Like I said, go crawl back into your cave dumbass.
flag deeeight
O+
Posted: May 14, 2012 at 12:38 Quote
Uh huh... RC's not the first by any means, his was just the most recent. Perhaps you should actually READ the original message again and asked about... and for that matter, read my actual first message in this thread again. I clearly said MOST every shimano road derailleur will work with a 32T cog just fine, and they clearly do. I and MANY others have done so. Just because you refuse to accept reality doesn't change it. But keep living in your fantasy land. I myself am done with your drivel.

Perhaps you should also re-read the forum rules and etiquette. You clearly are incapable of even following them.
  • Previous Page

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.050473
Mobile Version of Website