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Debate 20, 24, or 26 inch dirt jumping. Advice for new bike

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Debate 20, 24, or 26 inch dirt jumping. Advice for new bike
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flag RowlandG
Posted: Mar 7, 2014 at 21:56 Quote
Hey PB so Im in the market for a new bike and I have been riding dirt jumps for about a year now and am starting to progress into bigger dirt jumps (5-10 ft tall 10-20 ft long) and I have been riding 20 in BMX for this whole time. I will be riding dirt jumps and trails style dirt jumps. I know I will get responses that say. "its all up to you...its whatever you like best...ect" I have my opinion already and I''m now asking you guys to see where my opinion lands with all the mixed opinions of Dirt jumpers from across the globe. Thanks
flag Specialized2660
Posted: Mar 8, 2014 at 6:21 Quote
26 for dj
24 for street

20 for nothing i dont like bmx
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 9, 2014 at 9:17 Quote
If you haven't had a 26" DJ bike before, then you should definitely try one. Take a look at:

Black Market
NS Bikes
Transition
flag SpecialPedal
Posted: Mar 9, 2014 at 11:47 Quote
I don't have that much experience with different wheel sizes. But I see these questions, and my immediate response is "geo is more important that wheel size". In general, the wheel sizes get more flickable, but less stable as the wheel size decreases. But if you have a really street or trials type frame on a 26", it will likely feel just as unstable in the air and on transitions as a 20". That being said, there are limitations with the different wheel sizes. The chain stays on a 26" can only get so tight, and the BB on a 20" can only be dropped so low before you run into clearance issues.

To answer your question more directly. I would go with a 20" if the jumps in your area are relatively small. This makes riding them a little bit more playful. However, if you have access to pretty huge jumps and you'd prefer the stability; go with a 26" DJ frame for more stability while going HUGE.
flag dylan44117
O+
Posted: Mar 14, 2014 at 18:24 Quote
i have been using a 26 inch norco two fifty for 2 seasons now and i prefer it over my older 20 inch bmx bike, even though the 26 inch bike is heavier i find it more comfortable to ride because of my height (over 6 ft)
flag Mattin
Posted: Mar 17, 2014 at 5:40 Quote
SpecialPedal wrote:
I don't have that much experience with different wheel sizes. But I see these questions, and my immediate response is "geo is more important that wheel size". In general, the wheel sizes get more flickable, but less stable as the wheel size decreases. But if you have a really street or trials type frame on a 26", it will likely feel just as unstable in the air and on transitions as a 20". That being said, there are limitations with the different wheel sizes. The chain stays on a 26" can only get so tight, and the BB on a 20" can only be dropped so low before you run into clearance issues.

To answer your question more directly. I would go with a 20" if the jumps in your area are relatively small. This makes riding them a little bit more playful. However, if you have access to pretty huge jumps and you'd prefer the stability; go with a 26" DJ frame for more stability while going HUGE.

Exactly this.
flag typedeaf
Posted: Mar 18, 2014 at 21:28 Quote
SpecialPedal wrote:
I don't have that much experience with different wheel sizes. But I see these questions, and my immediate response is "geo is more important that wheel size". In general, the wheel sizes get more flickable, but less stable as the wheel size decreases. But if you have a really street or trials type frame on a 26", it will likely feel just as unstable in the air and on transitions as a 20". That being said, there are limitations with the different wheel sizes. The chain stays on a 26" can only get so tight, and the BB on a 20" can only be dropped so low before you run into clearance issues.

To answer your question more directly. I would go with a 20" if the jumps in your area are relatively small. This makes riding them a little bit more playful. However, if you have access to pretty huge jumps and you'd prefer the stability; go with a 26" DJ frame for more stability while going HUGE.

Guess Im going to hijack this tread. I was looking at some side by side pics of a BlkMrkt MOB 26" and a Liquid Feedback 24". The BB on the Feedback was roughly an inch higher, but the seat and bars met at the same point. The MOB had a huge slope int he TT with low MTB bars, and the Feedback had high 7-9" bars and a long stem. Other than the obvious 2" larger wheels, it looks like the main difference in a 24" BMX and 26" DJ is the height of the head tube.

Can anyone tell me if a 24" BMX with a 22" TT feels any more cramped than 26" DJ with a 23" TT?
flag SpecialPedal
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 6:50 Quote
Short answer: The Feedback will absolutely feel a little bit tighter than the MOB in the two pictures you're comparing.

A 22" TT is still pretty large. Big enough for riders over 6'. You can make adjustments to stem length/height, fork AtC height, bar height, and bar roll. So to an extent, you can make the "cockpits" in both bikes feel pretty much the same while sitting there statically. But these bikes will still feel incredibly different while actually riding due to the wheelbase, BB height, head angle, rotational mass of the wheels, etc.

Not trying to sound like an ass, but if you don't know how a 4-5* change in head angle effects a ride, then you should get off the internet. Go ride some bikes. Hopefully you have the option to visit a couple different stores that actually know what they're talking about when it comes to BMX/DJ bikes. Go in on a day they're not that busy and just chat with employees about the style of riding you do, style you'd like to do, and ask if they can let you test ride a few bikes on opposite ends of the spectrum. See if you can go demo some of these bikes for a day. Kids talking on the internet can only help you so much.
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 7:39 Quote
typedeaf wrote:

Guess Im going to hijack this tread. I was looking at some side by side pics of a BlkMrkt MOB 26" and a Liquid Feedback 24". The BB on the Feedback was roughly an inch higher, but the seat and bars met at the same point. The MOB had a huge slope int he TT with low MTB bars, and the Feedback had high 7-9" bars and a long stem. Other than the obvious 2" larger wheels, it looks like the main difference in a 24" BMX and 26" DJ is the height of the head tube.

Can anyone tell me if a 24" BMX with a 22" TT feels any more cramped than 26" DJ with a 23" TT?

I think the pic you're talking about of the Feedback 24" and the Mob 26" is mine. ; )

Just as far as cockpit size goes, the slanting of the top tube does not seem to make a full inch of difference--but there is a smaller difference. (If I spent some time measuring, or using some math or frame CAD program I could tell you exactly, but just speaking generally, if both the BMX 24" and the DJ 26" have a 22" ("actual") top tube, in my opinion, the DJ frame does feel a tad shorter in the cockpit room. Then, if you go down to a 20" with a 22" top tube, like the Macneil Deuce Deuce (which I also used to have), that feels very long.
20" BMX with 22" top tube = XXL
24" BMX with 22" top tube = Large
26" DJ with 22" top tube = Medium

The Liquid in the pic is a 22.25" top tube, while the Mob is a 22.5". The seat tube angle on the Mob is 70 or 71 (I have seen it listed both ways). The Liquid is listed as 72 seat tube angle. I'm not sure what difference in top tube length one or two degrees makes, but when you're comparing bikes that have much different seat tube angles, then the top tube length comparison can be thrown off by a lot.

But, in this comparison, yeah, you're right, the main difference is just the slant of the top tube because of the taller DJ fork. There is also a measurement called "reach" (see pic below).

EDIT: - A real easy thing to mess around with: http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.html Axle-to-crown on a 24" BMX fork is around 365. A-C on an 80mm travel DJ fork is around 458. So, like 3.6 inches difference. At least where you're assuming a right triangle (which I know it actually isn't here), 3.6" on side and 22" on the other, means the other side is 22.3. The slant of 9.3 degrees appears to make about a 0.3" difference in the lengths of the two sides. Of course, you could do this right with a frame CAD program. ; )

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/BlackmarketMOB26andLiquidFEEDBACK24001.jpgUnsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/026.jpg
http://cruiserrevolution.com/tag/liquid-bikes/


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/urban-dj-park/775231d1361767565-need-help-first-bmx-dj-bike-cockpitsize-blackmarketsoldier.jpg
TRANSITION Bikes use the description "reach" and "stack":
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.sicklines.com/news-images/reach_stack.jpg
Macneil Deuce Deuce 22"tt (20" wheels) next to Faction Zeitgeist 21.5"tt (22" wheels)
https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=139214
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/Macneil-20---Faction-22.jpg
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 8:23 Quote
SpecialPedal wrote:
. . . Hopefully you have the option to visit a couple different stores that actually know what they're talking about when it comes to BMX/DJ bikes. . . . . .

There are very few of those ! ; )
flag Mattin
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 15:48 Quote
No one uses the word cockpitroom anymore: reach and stack is the new official standard that is slowly replacing toptube length.

I disagree on high bars: if you run suspension your front end is already plenty high and you already have more than enough stack (unless you run really low suspension or have a really high bb rise).

Other than that i totally agree with you Smile


I think the best thing to do is to try as many different bikes as possible and see what you like best .
flag typedeaf
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 19:33 Quote
cmc4130 wrote:
I think the pic you're talking about of the Feedback 24" and the Mob 26" is mine. ; )

Ha! Yeah that's one of the pics. I printed that pic and looked at it a long time Smile . It got me wondering about the difference between a 24 and 26 inch bike.

The 22.3"(v2) Liquid and the 23" MOB are frames I have been staring long and hard at. I am really tempted to build out a long 24" exactly like you have yours built instead of a 26". I am pretty sure I don't care about front shocks, so I can't think of a good reason to go 26" if a 24" will feel the same in reach and stack. I believe Dobermann made a 24" with a 22.5" TT.

The fact that neither Liquid nor BlkMrkt mention reach or stack, or even if TT is relative or actual, is the main reason I have not given those two frames more consideration.

My 29er has a 635mm eTT, 442mm reach, and 627mm stack. 25" is way more than I need for both reach and knee room. The 24.5" stack, I am going to assume, comes mainly from the giant wheels. Going from 29 to 26 inch wheels looks like you lose 3 inches in stack as well. The 26" BLT and P3 I have been looking at measure 610/633mm eTT, 433/423mm reach, and 546/567mm stack.

So this begs the question: Will I lose 2 more inches in stack going from a 26" to a 24"?
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 19:53 Quote
typedeaf wrote:
cmc4130 wrote:
I think the pic you're talking about of the Feedback 24" and the Mob 26" is mine. ; )

Ha! Yeah that's one of the pics. I printed that pic and looked at it a long time Smile . It got me wondering about the difference between a 24 and 26 inch bike.

The 22.3"(v2) Liquid and the 23" MOB are frames I have been staring long and hard at. I am really tempted to build out a long 24" exactly like you have yours built instead of a 26". I am pretty sure I don't care about front shocks, so I can't think of a good reason to go 26" if a 24" will feel the same in reach and stack. I believe Dobermann made a 24" with a 22.5" TT.

The fact that neither Liquid nor BlkMrkt mention reach or stack, or even if TT is relative or actual, is the main reason I have not given those two frames more consideration.

My 29er has a 635mm eTT, 442mm reach, and 627mm stack. 25" is way more than I need for both reach and knee room. The 24.5" stack, I am going to assume, comes mainly from the giant wheels. Going from 29 to 26 inch wheels looks like you lose 3 inches in stack as well. The 26" BLT and P3 I have been looking at measure 610/633mm eTT, 433/423mm reach, and 546/567mm stack.

So this begs the question: Will I lose 2 more inches in stack going from a 26" to a 24"?

Well, no one in the BMX world talks about reach and stack. And in the DJ world, Transition is the only one I can think of that does. So, ruling out companies for that reason is a little unfair.

In BMX you adjust stack by just having taller or lower handlebars (or a stem with drop, zero, or rise), and maybe spacers. The Liquid actually was sold with 6" rise bars. Quite a few guys ride 8"s, and I tried the 9"s as an experiment.

Even though you can get your feet and hands in a pretty similar position, with a 24" BMX versus a 26" DJ bike, they do ride very differently. What kind of riding/terrain do you intend to use this bike for?

As for losing inches in stack when comparing 24" to 26" to 29".... remember to look at the axle-to-crown height of the fork. It's not just a wheel size issue. Plus, 29'ers often have more bb drop than a 26" DJ.
flag typedeaf
Posted: Mar 19, 2014 at 20:34 Quote
cmc4130 wrote:
In BMX you adjust stack by just having taller or lower handlebars (or a stem with drop, zero, or rise), and maybe spacers. The Liquid actually was sold with 6" rise bars. Quite a few guys ride 8"s, and I tried the 9"s as an experiment.

But if stack is the distance from center of BB to top of head tube, how would higher bars affect that? I can see the bars/stem affecting reach.

cmc4130 wrote:
Even though you can get your feet and hands in a pretty similar position, with a 24" BMX versus a 26" DJ bike, they do ride very differently. What kind of riding/terrain do you intend to use this bike for?
I think I am also concerned with where my butt is. In your pic, both seats are about the same height, the seat posts look about the same extension, and the BB on the Liquid looks only a bit higher up. Since the seat can be easily placed at the height of the stem, I was using stack to estimate leg extension.

I think I will prob just ride my bike wherever. Sidewalks, off road, light trails. Currently I go to a school and I have fun trying to ride parking curbs long ways, or trying to see how far I can ride a sidewalk curb on the edge. I enjoy just getting up and riding off obstacles around 1 or 2 feet high eg, high curbs, shot stair flights, etc.. I find tight narrow spots like winding handicap ramps or stadium ramps, and I ride those. I am still trying to master front wheel pivots and track stands. I have given up moves like wheelies, bunny hops, and manuals on the 29 because its too freaking heavy and the BB is soooooo freaking low. When I get bored of that kind of stuff, I go ride out by the football, baseball, and soccer fields. There are a bunch of fast dips and small steep slopes and terrain obstacles that keep my interested. I have only been riding for a few months, but what inspires me the most are riders like Akrigg, Lenosky, and Macaskill.

cmc4130 wrote:
As for losing inches in stack when comparing 24" to 26" to 29".... remember to look at the axle-to-crown height of the fork. It's not just a wheel size issue. Plus, 29'ers often have more bb drop than a 26" DJ.

That measurement isn't exactly clear to me yet. I will look at it some more. Yeah, my 29er BB drops over 2 inches. While it feels incredibly stable for riding fast, it is a beast to throw around, and very wobbly when pedaling very slow.
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