SRAM Guide RE calipers matched with Code RSC lever assemblies

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SRAM Guide RE calipers matched with Code RSC lever assemblies
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flag Telebump
Posted: Oct 3, 2019 at 19:57 Quote
This covers a topic someone inquired about in an older post but it received little focussed attention. But, having just done the mod, for the masses using Guide RE brakes researching the topic, this is a worthwhile re-gurgitaion...

Long story short I bought CODE RSC levers to try with my Guide RE calipers before blowing the wallet on the complete CODE system and WOW!!! The brakes are now spectacular, and I do mean SPECTACULAR!!! All the power one could want and actuation is significantly smoother and crisper than the before and full on lock is achieved at half the pull. Not as "full on or off" as the XTs, but definitely not Guide RE mushy anymore. Think "a happy medium" perfectly in between. And they are totally consistent in changing conditions. And honestly, it is the first hydraulic brake system I have used where there is almost no difference between front and rear brake feel and actuation despite the differences in hose length (including XT's). That is a big something. But one thing that disappointed me is that the contact point adjustment works from a base caliper point of full out (piston retracted) gapping that only allows you to increase the lever pull to piston actuation rather than to actually close the pad to disc gap (as in bringing the pads in to adjust for pad wear). So unless someone knows a trick I didn't try (tried bleeding as per SRAM (contact adjust full in as well as winging it by bleeding contact full out; it makes no difference other than you reduce the contact out adjustment), I'm not seeing the engineering practical/functional point of having the contact wheel; just say'n... Definitely worthy of doing just a partial/mismatch swap. I would bet that beyond gaining "bleeding edge" bleeding capability at the caliper, you will not notice any improvement with dumping Guide RE calipers for Code RSC's, but you will gain HUGE! by swapping just the lever assemblies for about $100 a piece (as opposed to $250 per one brake for the RSC complete lever/caliper combo assembly). FYI.
flag fruitsd79
Posted: Jan 11, 2020 at 19:11 Quote
Awesome. I am going to upgrade the guide T mine came with.
flag ifindoubtflatout
Posted: Jan 17, 2020 at 12:41 Quote
I did the same with my Guide RS levers, got a pair of Guide RE calipers at a bargain price..... all the power and great lever feel I need.
flag skerby
Posted: Jan 17, 2020 at 12:57 Quote
I have been thinking about doing this! My last 3 bikes had Guide RSC brakes, I was gonna swap levers to my new bike with guide RE, but the RE have been so good that I havent bothered.

Still, the performance difference between Guide R and RSC, makes me think that the RSCE setup will be amazing.

The guide R lever, shared by the Guide RE, definitely sucks. I think they RE caliper more than makes up for the crappy lever though, it stops hard enough that the squish isnt as bothersome.

Edit: I did this, I matched the G2 RSC levers to my RE calipers. I thought it was great, but I ended up breaking one of the G2 levers. Now I have one G2 RSC lever and the old Guide RE lever on the other side, and I cant even tell the difference.

IMO: buy the code levers or dont bother upgrading the lever.
flag jubs17
O+
Posted: Aug 19, 2020 at 22:27 Quote
I have some guide r brakes that are disappointing me (even with 203/180 rotors...)
Is swapping the lever to a code r lever going to have the same benefits you felt?
flag gnarnaimo
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 22, 2020 at 9:21 Quote
jubs17 wrote:
I have some guide r brakes that are disappointing me (even with 203/180 rotors...)
Is swapping the lever to a code r lever going to have the same benefits you felt?

No. Guide RE calipers are entirely different to guide r, rs and rsc calipers. They are based on the previous generation code calipers.

You would see a benefit with installing guide rs or rsc levers however as they offer superior leverage and the rsc levers also offer more adjustment.
flag macro182
Posted: Jan 9, 2021 at 2:49 Quote
Hi,
I've just broken the caliper housing where it is inserted the little screw which keep in place the pad on my Guide R.

Needless to say that I have to change the whole caliper (even if I will surely try a sort of repair to have a spare brake, suggestions are appreciated..)

Does it make sense to install some Code caliper? If so, will I see some improvements? More than brake power I'm interested in reliability, since the previous caliper had many issues with sticky pistons.

Thank you
flag ifindoubtflatout
Posted: Jan 9, 2021 at 6:10 Quote
The code caliper will give you more power but you won't gain any extra lever feel.... Regading the sticky piston issues, I'm afraid that's a Sram thing that all their brakes suffer from....it just means they take a little more looking after than other brands.
flag Dr-Courvoisier
O+
Posted: Mar 17, 2021 at 11:22 Quote
Thread revival:

Running G2 RSC Fr/R. They're pretty good with a 200mm rotor up front. But think I'm going to upgrade to a CODE or Guid RE caliper up front for just a bit more power?

-Any issues swapping out the caliper to the existing line and adapters?
-Is the Guide RE the exact same caliper as the CODE?

THX!
flag gnarnaimo
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 17, 2021 at 11:36 Quote
I believe the guide RE is actually basically the same caliper as the previous generation codes. The new code calipers are updated. Not really sure they are any better, both work well.
flag Neloz
FL
Posted: Sep 2, 2021 at 2:02 Quote
Telebump wrote:
This covers a topic someone inquired about in an older post but it received little focussed attention. But, having just done the mod, for the masses using Guide RE brakes researching the topic, this is a worthwhile re-gurgitaion...

Long story short I bought CODE RSC levers to try with my Guide RE calipers before blowing the wallet on the complete CODE system and WOW!!! The brakes are now spectacular, and I do mean SPECTACULAR!!! All the power one could want and actuation is significantly smoother and crisper than the before and full on lock is achieved at half the pull. Not as "full on or off" as the XTs, but definitely not Guide RE mushy anymore. Think "a happy medium" perfectly in between. And they are totally consistent in changing conditions. And honestly, it is the first hydraulic brake system I have used where there is almost no difference between front and rear brake feel and actuation despite the differences in hose length (including XT's). That is a big something. But one thing that disappointed me is that the contact point adjustment works from a base caliper point of full out (piston retracted) gapping that only allows you to increase the lever pull to piston actuation rather than to actually close the pad to disc gap (as in bringing the pads in to adjust for pad wear). So unless someone knows a trick I didn't try (tried bleeding as per SRAM (contact adjust full in as well as winging it by bleeding contact full out; it makes no difference other than you reduce the contact out adjustment), I'm not seeing the engineering practical/functional point of having the contact wheel; just say'n... Definitely worthy of doing just a partial/mismatch swap. I would bet that beyond gaining "bleeding edge" bleeding capability at the caliper, you will not notice any improvement with dumping Guide RE calipers for Code RSC's, but you will gain HUGE! by swapping just the lever assemblies for about $100 a piece (as opposed to $250 per one brake for the RSC complete lever/caliper combo assembly). FYI.

Do the Code RSC Levers just work out of the box with the Guide RE hose screw? e.g you just take off the Guide RE lever and attached the Code RSC one without any other faff other than topping up the fluid.
flag fruitsd79
Posted: Oct 18, 2021 at 8:14 Quote
I replaced the olives on the hose when I did mine to prevent leaks. I didn't have any problems with the bleed.
flag sernevi
O+
Posted: Oct 19, 2021 at 0:06 Quote
I've have just done the "full journey" of this conversion, having gone from the previous gen Code R on my previous DH bike to Guide RE on my new bike this season and then updated with Code RSC lever assy now.

I can confirm that the Guide RE caliper is 100% a rebranded Code caliper of the old gen. And when I did my research before my conversion I realized that the new Code caliper is the same internals (pistons, pads etc) but updated with the bleeding edge port, which is really nice to have but not a deal breaker. This was also confirmed by a bike mechanic buddy of mine.

The Guide RE is in my opinion comparable in feel to the old Code R, but with the Code RSC lever it's a completely different animal both in terms of power and feel due to the Swinglink pushing more fluid.

I run the G2 RSC on my trail bike and that does not have the same bite and fade resistance as the Code RSC. Not sure I'd want the Code power on my trail bike, as I find that the G2 has enough bite to lock up the rear and skid the front with the contact and reach adjusted for max power.
flag rete
O+
Posted: Nov 9, 2021 at 18:28 Quote
sernevi wrote:
I've have just done the "full journey" of this conversion, having gone from the previous gen Code R on my previous DH bike to Guide RE on my new bike this season and then updated with Code RSC lever assy now.

I can confirm that the Guide RE caliper is 100% a rebranded Code caliper of the old gen. And when I did my research before my conversion I realized that the new Code caliper is the same internals (pistons, pads etc) but updated with the bleeding edge port, which is really nice to have but not a deal breaker. This was also confirmed by a bike mechanic buddy of mine.

The Guide RE is in my opinion comparable in feel to the old Code R, but with the Code RSC lever it's a completely different animal both in terms of power and feel due to the Swinglink pushing more fluid.

I run the G2 RSC on my trail bike and that does not have the same bite and fade resistance as the Code RSC. Not sure I'd want the Code power on my trail bike, as I find that the G2 has enough bite to lock up the rear and skid the front with the contact and reach adjusted for max power.

Agree with everything you said, except this "due to the Swinglink pushing more fluid".

Brakes function by mechanical force on the lever being converted to fluid pressure. If you have Shimano Servo Wave, the brake lever cam's mechanical leverage on the master cylinder is indeed magnified and you get higher brake fluid pressure than you do in Shimano brakes without Servo Wave since the lever arm is effectively longer. But SRAM's Swinglink doesn't function in the same way; with Swinglink (compared to Directlink in the R lever) each mm of lever pull produces more pressure early in the lever stroke but produces less pressure later in the lever stroke. So RSC's power comes on quicker but then increases at a slower rate - providing it's famous modulation. With Directlink there is direct linear increase in power throughout the brake lever stroke - if you pull twice as far you get twice the power. But ultimate possible power between the R and RSC lever is theoretically the same.

It's also worth noting that not only are the second gen vs third gen Code calipers essentially identical in their power producing design, but the Guide and Code lever internals are identical in their power producing design. The Guide RSC, Guide Ultimate and Code RSC has the same lever internals (11.5018.005.010); similarly the Guide R and Code R has the same lever internals.

Here's a dyno test of SRAM Guide RE vs Shimano Saint and other brakes, including the Guide RSC.
flag sernevi
O+
Posted: Nov 10, 2021 at 11:32 Quote
rete wrote:
sernevi wrote:
I've have just done the "full journey" of this conversion, having gone from the previous gen Code R on my previous DH bike to Guide RE on my new bike this season and then updated with Code RSC lever assy now.

I can confirm that the Guide RE caliper is 100% a rebranded Code caliper of the old gen. And when I did my research before my conversion I realized that the new Code caliper is the same internals (pistons, pads etc) but updated with the bleeding edge port, which is really nice to have but not a deal breaker. This was also confirmed by a bike mechanic buddy of mine.

The Guide RE is in my opinion comparable in feel to the old Code R, but with the Code RSC lever it's a completely different animal both in terms of power and feel due to the Swinglink pushing more fluid.

I run the G2 RSC on my trail bike and that does not have the same bite and fade resistance as the Code RSC. Not sure I'd want the Code power on my trail bike, as I find that the G2 has enough bite to lock up the rear and skid the front with the contact and reach adjusted for max power.

Agree with everything you said, except this "due to the Swinglink pushing more fluid".

Brakes function by mechanical force on the lever being converted to fluid pressure. If you have Shimano Servo Wave, the brake lever cam's mechanical leverage on the master cylinder is indeed magnified and you get higher brake fluid pressure than you do in Shimano brakes without Servo Wave since the lever arm is effectively longer. But SRAM's Swinglink doesn't function in the same way; with Swinglink (compared to Directlink in the R lever) each mm of lever pull produces more pressure early in the lever stroke but produces less pressure later in the lever stroke. So RSC's power comes on quicker but then increases at a slower rate - providing it's famous modulation. With Directlink there is direct linear increase in power throughout the brake lever stroke - if you pull twice as far you get twice the power. But ultimate possible power between the R and RSC lever is theoretically the same.

It's also worth noting that not only are the second gen vs third gen Code calipers essentially identical in their power producing design, but the Guide and Code lever internals are identical in their power producing design. The Guide RSC, Guide Ultimate and Code RSC has the same lever internals (11.5018.005.010); similarly the Guide R and Code R has the same lever internals.

Here's a dyno test of SRAM Guide RE vs Shimano Saint and other brakes, including the Guide RSC.

Interesting. I've only seen this dyno test of the brakes, which unfortunately uses a lower lever force than the one you linked. It would have been really interesting to see the Guide RE vs Code RSC then. I guess it makes sense that the Guide RE feels like my old Code R then.

It is very possible that the difference in braking performance I felt after switching was that I could adjust the reach and bite point individually and could therefore set the lever up as I like it, quite close to the grip, without bottoming out before reaching the full braking power. This together with the reduced brake fade due to the increased reservoir volume could be what gave me less arm pump as I didn't have to pull as hard and hang on as desperately near the end of the runs.

I've only gone on what I've managed to read up on online. If the internals are the same, that's a happy coincidence for me as I am then able to get spares that fit both the G2 RSCs on my trail bike and the Code RSCs on my DH bike if I need to service any of them.
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