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Shimano 12-speed chainring compatibility

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Shimano 12-speed chainring compatibility
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flag jgole
Posted: Oct 26, 2019 at 14:19 Quote
Recently I came across the Shimano MT900 12-speed crankset which basically uses XT arms and an XTR chainring. I can't find any information on whether or not the 12-speed chainring will work with my 11-speed XT components (I'm running the HG-701 chain). Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks in advance!
flag gmoss
Posted: Oct 26, 2019 at 15:11 Quote
I cannot see why there would be an issue.
flag Ploutre
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 at 1:49 Quote
Not entirely sure ... The 12spd Shimano chain is narrower, and will not work with "regular" narrow wide chainrings like RaceFace without some big chain suck.

So running an 11spd Shimano chain on a 12spd Shimano chainring might work, but with less chain retention from the narrow wide teeth. I'd probably recommend switching to an 11spd chainring. But you can definitely try it out before you buy anything else.
flag Branmuffin
O+
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 at 3:42 Quote
Ploutre wrote:
Not entirely sure ... The 12spd Shimano chain is narrower, and will not work with "regular" narrow wide chainrings like RaceFace without some big chain suck.

So running an 11spd Shimano chain on a 12spd Shimano chainring might work, but with less chain retention from the narrow wide teeth. I'd probably recommend switching to an 11spd chainring. But you can definitely try it out before you buy anything else.

I have been running the Shimano XT 12sp chain with Absolute Black Narrow Wide chainring for months with 0 issues.
flag gmoss
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 at 3:51 Quote
Same here, running 12 speed XT with a Wolf tooth narrow wide RF cinch I ran when I had 11 spd. Why I aaid should be no issue going the other way.
flag Ploutre
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 at 5:50 Quote
Could it be something specific to the XTR chain?

I've tried on both an "old" Raceface Cinch chainring and a new one, bad chainsuck on both (and I could see the chain had "problems" getting in the teeth ...). Didn't have any other NW chainring at the time to check ...

And now both RaceFace and Wolf Tooth components have released a Shimano 12spd specific chainring (bought the WTC one as it was the first available)...

I don't know anymore then.
flag gmoss
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 at 6:22 Quote
Ploutre wrote:
Could it be something specific to the XTR chain?

I've tried on both an "old" Raceface Cinch chainring and a new one, bad chainsuck on both (and I could see the chain had "problems" getting in the teeth ...). Didn't have any other NW chainring at the time to check ...

And now both RaceFace and Wolf Tooth components have released a Shimano 12spd specific chainring (bought the WTC one as it was the first available)...

I don't know anymore then.

haha. I know what you mean. Hard to keep up. I run XTR chain on my bikes, 11 or 12 speed. I have both. Running 11 speed XTR chain on a SRAM 12 speed chainring, and running a XTR 12 speed chain on a the Wolf Tooth 11 speed ring. Both work for me. I do clean my rings regularly though, scrape all the gunk from the the rings and keep my chain clean.
flag jgole
Posted: Oct 31, 2019 at 19:31 Quote
Thanks for all your inputs so far! It looks like Ploutre is correct about it working with the 11-speed chain but with a bit less chain retention. Does anyone see any problems with that even with a chain guide?

I really like direct mount cranksets and currently have a RF Turbine crankset, but I don't like the fast wearing BB92 running 30mm spindles. Therefore I thought I'd switch to Shimano (24mm) and have a longer lasting bottom bracket (unless I go with the dual row flanged BB for 30mm). This upgrade also sets me up for the future if I decide to go 12-speed. What do you guys think of this?
flag gmoss
Posted: Oct 31, 2019 at 19:47 Quote
Hard to say. My BB is the same age as my RF Turbine cranks, almost 2 years on 2 different bikes. I weigh about 215 lbs and ride year round 2 to 4 times a week. BB is still in good shape. Rode all last winter and it rained weekly for nearly 6 months. But, I do not do a lot of drops and ride really rough downhill stuff. 30mm bearings give me no concern. But, I know some are tougher on BB's than others, whether it be riding style or conditions, or both.

I have had no issue with chain drop nor do I run a chainguide.

It is a judgement call you will have to make. I do like the way the Shimano cranks install vs. the RF, though. Eventually I will likely pick up a set of XTR cranks but hard to justify until I have an issue.
flag Branmuffin
O+
Posted: Nov 1, 2019 at 4:55 Quote
jgole wrote:
Thanks for all your inputs so far! It looks like Ploutre is correct about it working with the 11-speed chain but with a bit less chain retention. Does anyone see any problems with that even with a chain guide?

I really like direct mount cranksets and currently have a RF Turbine crankset, but I don't like the fast wearing BB92 running 30mm spindles. Therefore I thought I'd switch to Shimano (24mm) and have a longer lasting bottom bracket (unless I go with the dual row flanged BB for 30mm). This upgrade also sets me up for the future if I decide to go 12-speed. What do you guys think of this?

I have rode the 24mm cranks and now ride 30mm Next R cranks and have not had any difference in BB life. Some of it is just the conditions you ride and soil type. Very sandy around here and you end up changing BB’s every year if not 2x.
flag gmoss
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 5:06 Quote
Ploutre wrote:
Could it be something specific to the XTR chain?

I've tried on both an "old" Raceface Cinch chainring and a new one, bad chainsuck on both (and I could see the chain had "problems" getting in the teeth ...). Didn't have any other NW chainring at the time to check ...

And now both RaceFace and Wolf Tooth components have released a Shimano 12spd specific chainring (bought the WTC one as it was the first available)...

I don't know anymore then.

This got me thinking, so I have been keeping an eye on my chainring. Running the narrower 12 spd chain on the 11 spd chainring is causing additional wear on the ring. So, I am picking up a 12 spd ring for my 12 spd drivetrain. Certainly do not want premature wear on a $60 chain and $150 cassette.
Probably fine running an 11 spd chain on a narrower ring, though you likely won't get the same retention.
flag Ploutre
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 5:14 Quote
I also did notice some exceptional wear after something like 20-30km of "easy" riding on the new RaceFace chainring I had.

Surprisingly, on a 3 year-old RaceFace chainring, it has the same chainsuck effect. I expected the worn chainring to be slightly narrower at the teeth, but I guess not.
flag GrundleJuice
Posted: Jun 25, 2020 at 13:34 Quote
Ploutre wrote:
I also did notice some exceptional wear after something like 20-30km of "easy" riding on the new RaceFace chainring I had.

Surprisingly, on a 3 year-old RaceFace chainring, it has the same chainsuck effect. I expected the worn chainring to be slightly narrower at the teeth, but I guess not.

I have about 200 miles on a raceface HG+ (Shimano 12 speed) chainring and XT 12 speed chain. Toward the end of my last ride I noticed a gritty and grinding noise and feeling in the drivetrain. After looking closely I found it to be the chain meshing with the chainring and a good amount of chain suck. The forward edges of the chainring teeth (load bearing face) on the corners is significantly worn to a facet. Also, the inside face of the narrow link plates on the chain look pretty nasty. The edges of the plates that ride toward the chainring/cassette are all rough and tapered to an edge. Chainline look dead nuts on in the 6th tallest gear. Word out to raceface this morning, they want to send me a shipping label to send it for warranty evaluation but I don't really want to ship it and be without a bike for 2+ weeks not knowing if there is an issue with their rings or not.
flag Branmuffin
O+
Posted: Jun 25, 2020 at 13:53 Quote
GrundleJuice wrote:
Ploutre wrote:
I also did notice some exceptional wear after something like 20-30km of "easy" riding on the new RaceFace chainring I had.

Surprisingly, on a 3 year-old RaceFace chainring, it has the same chainsuck effect. I expected the worn chainring to be slightly narrower at the teeth, but I guess not.

I have about 200 miles on a raceface HG+ (Shimano 12 speed) chainring and XT 12 speed chain. Toward the end of my last ride I noticed a gritty and grinding noise and feeling in the drivetrain. After looking closely I found it to be the chain meshing with the chainring and a good amount of chain suck. The forward edges of the chainring teeth (load bearing face) on the corners is significantly worn to a facet. Also, the inside face of the narrow link plates on the chain look pretty nasty. The edges of the plates that ride toward the chainring/cassette are all rough and tapered to an edge. Chainline look dead nuts on in the 6th tallest gear. Word out to raceface this morning, they want to send me a shipping label to send it for warranty evaluation but I don't really want to ship it and be without a bike for 2+ weeks not knowing if there is an issue with their rings or not.

If they want you to send it back, they should be sending you a new one. I have been running the wolftooth HG+ 12sp with good results. If you have a trusty set of calipers, I would be curious to see the dimensions of your narrow and wide teeth.
You are using a Shimano 12sp chain right?
flag gmoss
Posted: Jun 25, 2020 at 14:29 Quote
I had wear on the load side of my RF ring with 11 spd. I think they are just soft. I had to file burrs off the ring and the XT 11 spd cassette. I have not had a single issue with my XT 12 spd and WT ring.
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