2021 patrol date???

PB Forum :: Transition
2021 patrol date???
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flag Tuna-Flapjack
Posted: Jul 1, 2022 at 2:18 Quote
@Mike172

I am also struggling to get my carbon spire quiet i have fitted fiber washers to the chain & seat stays i have run a STFU chainslap damper, i have had the F&R fork/shock serviced, new headset new bearings throughout serviced the wheels new pedals and changed bar/stem combo all in aide of it not to sound like a skeleton w*nking in a biscuit tin.

Left on my list which im going to test this weekend

MRP G5 Chainguide & Roller
Dropper foam damping
New Mech new chain

If it still sounds like sh*t im selling it...
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 1, 2022 at 3:08 Quote
Tuna-Flapjack wrote:
@Mike172

I am also struggling to get my carbon spire quiet i have fitted fiber washers to the chain & seat stays i have run a STFU chainslap damper, i have had the F&R fork/shock serviced, new headset new bearings throughout serviced the wheels new pedals and changed bar/stem combo all in aide of it not to sound like a skeleton w*nking in a biscuit tin.

Left on my list which im going to test this weekend

MRP G5 Chainguide & Roller
Dropper foam damping
New Mech new chain

If it still sounds like sh*t im selling it...

Lol at the skeleton thing, exactly how mine sounds

Just cant figure out what it is, have literally stripped down the bike and ridden it with almost nothing on it

Should have the new stock tuned super deluxe coil shock fitted next week, then its onto bearings and the linkage hardware as that's all that's left although may not bother as if the shock doesn't resolve it then clearly its linkage related which I just cant see a fresh set of bolts sorting - if these are out of tolerance then I am sure the next lot will be, having pulled that all apart I honestly don't think its the linkages, there is zero play in any linkage when partially dismantled and tested as Ive checked each joint and isolated upper and lower bolts to check for play as best I can. In fact the whole rear end is laterally stiffer than any bike I've ridden before, its made me really notice my 22 Levo's sloppy rear end.

Hopefully, ill be here posting an apology to transition and slating Fox's shitty X2 next week.
flag Tuna-Flapjack
Posted: Jul 1, 2022 at 7:12 Quote
If it is the x2 id also be intrested, i forgot ive tried the spire "v2" hardware but i cant seem to see a difference in why its v2 its exactly the same measurements but its what it states when ordering.

I had to take the main pivot metal thingy that knocks the bearings out down by a few microns.

Ive tried different shock mounting hardware too.

Mine is most noticeable over chatering rocks or hardpack.

Its bloody off putting!

Edit: TF Tuned replaced the air can on my x2 as it was making that woosh/squeek i think they said the air can was scored?? (After 6months!) But it's solved whatever it was. I hadn't thought that the x2 could be the souce of the rattle upto now mine seems more like cassette/chain rattle hence the testing of the G5 guide this weekend...
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 1, 2022 at 13:18 Quote
Was going to try that v2 hardware but there's no play when torqued so not sure I'll bother. Unsure yet. I didnt touch the main pivot or the linkage down by the bottom bracket. They are totally solid and rotate smoothly but may file them down a little for the hell of it. All other linkage bolts were filed down

The x2 on my patrol arrived cavitated or whatever its called. And also needed a new sleeve when I sent it to Silverfish apparently. Ridden once.

The x2 (black performance model) on my levo makes that plastic like whoosh sound. I replaced it with a kashima one and it still made the same nose. Send it off for a warranty rebuild and its been fine since. Performance one has been sat on my shelf I need to get it sorted. Also the x2 on my patrol made the same noise but has since quietened down so maybe it's the bushes that just take time to wear in.

I think the LSR being too closed causes it to be noisy and you get a small bump as the shock breaks away. needs to be about 7 clicks from open to operate smoothly I think and also helps maintain traction

I like TF Tuned but they do try have you over. Send in some forks for a service and they will say your air shaft is scratched. They have done it to me on 3 different forks now twice the air shaft was brand new as id put it in, politely declined. So I'd be skeptical as to whether it was scratched or they just wanted a bit more money out of you. Remember that next time you send anything to them

Complain to Silverfish if its under warranty and say its got no small bump and is noisy they should rebuild it no questions asked under warranty. They are pretty good actually I think we are lucky to have them for warranty in the UK.
flag evilbert222
Posted: Jul 3, 2022 at 23:16 Quote
Does anyone know how to work out the geo changes moving from stock to 170mm both ends?
flag spudsmtb
Posted: Jul 4, 2022 at 4:16 Quote
evilbert222 wrote:
Does anyone know how to work out the geo changes moving from stock to 170mm both ends?
. I changed mine 180 front 170 rear. I didn't like the 180, felt like I had a lot less control. You can calculate the impact here - https://bikegeo.muha.cc/. With the bike in high mode I think the calculator said the head angle would have been 62.8 or something like that on my size medium. FWIW I think for me the issue was more the overall bar/stack height not that it was too slack.

I'm keeping the 170 rear but going back to 160 front.
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 4, 2022 at 7:33 Quote
evilbert222 wrote:
Does anyone know how to work out the geo changes moving from stock to 170mm both ends?

0.5 reduction in HTA with +10mm on the front

Unsure on the rear. Same stroke shock technically minus a travel spacer so no change, although I'd imagine at sag there could be some change?
flag spudsmtb
Posted: Jul 4, 2022 at 8:02 Quote
Mike172 wrote:
evilbert222 wrote:
Does anyone know how to work out the geo changes moving from stock to 170mm both ends?

0.5 reduction in HTA with +10mm on the front

Unsure on the rear. Same stroke shock technically minus a travel spacer so no change, although I'd imagine at sag there could be some change?

30% sag for 170mm rear is equivalent to ~33% sag at 160mm. So it's within the recommended range but lower bb and slacker etc.
flag evilbert222
Posted: Jul 5, 2022 at 0:56 Quote
Ah, so a simplistic take on this is that the rear travel won’t change much and adding 10mm to the front turns the patrol angles in to spire angles. Nice!
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 5, 2022 at 3:07 Quote
Mines 170 170 and it works well for trail use but definitely not as snappy as it was at 160mm, was even considering reducing the head angle with a headset but decided against it. I prefer the extra travel, don't think the 38s work that well at 160mm.

Don't like it in 'low', though. Not sure what the HTA is at that point now 62.5? A bit too slack I considered going to 180mm up front but figured it would feel like it does in the low setting its just a bit too slack for riding natural trails in my opinion, might be ok on big sweeping park trails.
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 5, 2022 at 12:11 Quote
photo

Put the coil on it

Noises now gone, some rattles occasionally but nothing more than chain slap and the 38s being noisy I think, plus my lower mount hardware is now questionable given I installed it with a hammer, there is some play. Easy enough to fix. None of that stupid metallic bopping noise now. Confident its the X2 thats an issue

The new RS coil is rather impressive, did not expect it to behave like it does. Going to try different spring rates and see how I get on but it ramps up nicely even with no HBO set, plenty of rebound available if I want the bike to 'pop' as well. Thought the X2 was smooth but this thing is something else.

Can elaborate on how it behaves if anyone's interested.
flag Lando406
O+
Posted: Jul 5, 2022 at 12:27 Quote
Please elaborate!
flag Andy87MTB
O+
Posted: Jul 5, 2022 at 13:08 Quote
Mike172 wrote:
photo

Put the coil on it

Noises now gone, some rattles occasionally but nothing more than chain slap and the 38s being noisy I think, plus my lower mount hardware is now questionable given I installed it with a hammer, there is some play. Easy enough to fix. None of that stupid metallic bopping noise now. Confident its the X2 thats an issue

The new RS coil is rather impressive, did not expect it to behave like it does. Going to try different spring rates and see how I get on but it ramps up nicely even with no HBO set, plenty of rebound available if I want the bike to 'pop' as well. Thought the X2 was smooth but this thing is something else.

Can elaborate on how it behaves if anyone's interested.

Where did you pick the new RS up from? Interested in one for my spire.

Cheers
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 6, 2022 at 2:17 Quote
Knocking noise turned out to be the bolts on the chain stay next to the axle, in typical Transition fashion they had yet again worked loose. Must thread lock them. Expecting the bike to be even quieter next ride.

Coil came from TF Tuned in the UK, got springs off ebay but ridewill.it have some in stock if you're willing to wait. Its 205x62.5 as that's all they had in stock, annoyingly the shaft is marked with 62.5mm I had planned to remove the spacer under the bump stop to increase it to 65mm but the Patrol is my snotter/utility bike so don't care much for damage or cosmetics (its there to be ridden). They are due more mid July apparently.

Firstly I am on a 550 spring, at 90KG kitted that's putting me at about 20-25% sag so some further testing to be done with lighter springs, lets be honest that isn't ideal in terms of sag and as I reduce the spring rates I am expecting a lower spring rate to tone down some of these behaviours a bit - rebound, HBO, the bikes overall progression, and pedalling I think 500 will be the goldilocks for me but have a 450 to try, waiting to find a 500. I think because of this is the bike sits higher than I am used to when riding (which Is actually good, because I find the X2 on any bike tends to sink well into its travel and bring that head angle down, was hoping this SD would solve that and it has, but that might be the 500 spring I've got on keeping it a bit higher up).

I've ridden a Bird with the previous Superdeluxe coil on it and it was far more linier than this setup is with no real ramp up toward the end, quite a mellow shock I thought? With the stock X2 (Transition put tune - TC1/TR1) I thought the bikes suspension design made it ramp up toward the end more than normal compared to my other bike - 22 Levo with a stock tuned X2 factory - and I think the SD coil behaves the same, ramps up toward the end so much so I left the HBO dial to its lowest setting. How much of that ramp up is the HBO, the 500 spring or the Bikes suspension curve is hard to say, but it works extremely well. I wasn't expecting that ramp up toward the end, I'd say it behaves like a coil shock for the first 2/3 of its travel and then a good air shock toward the end where it ramps up. For me, it has just the right amount of pop for jumps with an ultra supple top end.

Despite the 550 spring and slightly high sag point its incredibly supple, I have three X2s and thought they were buttery smooth so wasn't expecting much of an increase in small bump or anything but there's a night and day difference between them.

Pedalling the 62.5/550 Coil is easier than the X2 was at either 60 or 65mm, the lockout is excellent and is the best I have come across on any shock to date, hardly moves when locked out. I just kept it unlocked as I didn't find it difficult to pedal. In terms of on trail pedalling there was plenty of support there, I found the X2 at 65mm stroke with no spacers quite a pig to pedal and generate speed so ended up putting two spacers in it to try get some better mid support, not the case here. The 550 spring might have helped with that but in terms of how the shock felt I doubt it'll be much worse with a lighter spring installed

Rebound setting is like Fox's LSR - notchy feeling shock for the first 3 clicks from slow then as the circuits open up it gets smoother. Ended up at 4 clicks of rebound, expecting to increase that slightly on a lighter spring though.

I tried HBO but left it set to its lowest setting. Ill need more time on the shock and on different springs to work out if that needs increasing. As mentioned above, I think the bikes leverage curve and the HBO make it an excellent shock choice.

Sound wise, typical hissing noise like my 2020 super deluxe ultimate air shock but a bit quieter - not intrusive in any way and I only heard it because I was wondering if I could actually hear it (if that makes sense, paid no attention to the noise otherwise)

Bags of traction, not had a bikes back and feel like that before, yet still easy to pop the bike.

To say I am thrilled with this is an understatement, partly because the bike no longer rattles to the point of distraction and because this coil behaves way better than I expected. Plenty of time for me to play with spring rates and change opinions but I don't think I'd go back to air. I've only had 1 ride on it too.

photo
flag Mike172
Posted: Jul 8, 2022 at 1:02 Quote
Rode on 450 and 500, happy with 500. Still playing with it to get the front and rear playing nice

Not touched the HBO yet, it seems fine for 4-5 foot worth of drops

Big thing Ive noticed is the fact it sits higher up in the travel than the X2, I mentioned that the X2 sits well into its travel in my opinion. Ive not had any pedal strikes while on the RS coil and I am enjoying the obviously steeper head angle when riding as a result.

Seriously happy with it.

So, apologies Transition for bitching about the frame when it was in fact that shitty X2.

 


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