Angle Headsets: What's Your Experience?

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Angle Headsets: What's Your Experience?
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flag MT36
Posted: Apr 25, 2023 at 6:56 Quote
I used the 9.8 angleset on a hardtail for a season. Held up completely, no creaking or funky stuff going on. Was a fantastic upgrade for this bike.
flag Fluorinated
O+
Posted: Apr 25, 2023 at 7:24 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Fluorinated,

9point8 Slack-R

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
flag fartymarty
Posted: Apr 25, 2023 at 7:26 Quote
I've been using Works Components and Superstar anglesets in my old HT for years. They work a treat.
flag jimicarl
Posted: Jun 19, 2023 at 12:34 Quote
Good discussion. Very informative. Much appreciate! But one factor not mentioned, is fork length.

It's an easy-enough trig exercise to see what happens to your actual angleset-slackened head angle, with your current fork length (crown seat to axle midpoint). By my reckoning - if you want to retain your current reach, sta, drop, yada - you need to increase your fork length along with slackening your hta. New fork. Or on some forks, changing internals.

This gives me some pause. Running both 120mm & 150mm forks on the same hardtail, my experience makes me assume that a longer travel fork will generally dive further into it's travel - and particularly with a hardtail - at the same time dropping the front end, steepening the hta, and shortening the wheelbase. The tough one about that for me is - all that happens at the exact point you'd prefer the hta to slacken & wheelbase to lengthen. Big berm sweepers, hard braking, iffy landings, heavy rock/root gardens, or whatever else will cause your fork to dive well into (or through) the midstroke or pack-down if your rebound adjustment's not fast enough.

So instead of getting more stability at those critical balls-out points - it all just gets a little twitchy.

So the final question for me is - do I really gain anything with a 1° or 1.5° angle headset? Or even with a longer fork - perhaps even lose ground at precisely the point where I wanted the slacker head in the first place?!

Maybe it make more sense to go mullet?
flag R-M-R
Posted: Jun 19, 2023 at 12:51 Quote
Sound observation, jimicarl. Your position is premised on the fork length, reach, and stack being perfect in the first place, though. Designers and riders thought their geometries were perfect in the '90s, and look how far we've come! It's all fluid and there's nothing wrong with changing every variable. Similarly, most people wouldn't think twice about swapping one fork for another with the same travel, even though the forks may differ in axle-to-crown length and may have as much of an effect on static geometry as an angle-adjusting headset.

Taking things a step further, different forks - or even different set-ups of the same fork - may have significantly different spring and damper properties, such that the dynamic geometry changes could be as significant as that of the angle-adjusting headset.

Looking at the whole picture, my position is:

1. Yes, properties other than the head-tube angle will change, but these change are not necessarily bad and, if desired, and be compensated in various ways.
2. Riders already make changes of similar significance, so there's no reason to be overly wary of this change.
flag MT36
Posted: Jun 20, 2023 at 8:48 Quote
jimicarl wrote:
The tough one about that for me is - all that happens at the exact point you'd prefer the hta to slacken & wheelbase to lengthen. Big berm sweepers, hard braking, iffy landings, heavy rock/root gardens, or whatever else will cause your fork to dive well into (or through) the midstroke or pack-down if your rebound adjustment's not fast enough.

So instead of getting more stability at those critical balls-out points - it all just gets a little twitchy.

So the final question for me is - do I really gain anything with a 1° or 1.5° angle headset? Or even with a longer fork - perhaps even lose ground at precisely the point where I wanted the slacker head in the first place?!

Maybe it make more sense to go mullet?

The solution to this is a full suspension. I know this is not what the forum is about as much, but this is the primary issue/challenge with hardtails. When the trail gets harder the rider needs to step it up more, because the geometry will start to work against you as the fork packs in. You could address this issue by slacking it out with an angleset, increasing fork length, raising stack, getting some riser handlebars, and going mullet, etc, etc... but you will always be faced with a bike that gets less slack as the fork becomes more challenged.
flag HaggeredShins
Posted: Jun 20, 2023 at 9:25 Quote
jimicarl wrote:
So the final question for me is - do I really gain anything with a 1° or 1.5° angle headset?

I feel like this is a really crucial question for anyone considering an angleset to ask and I'd suggest anyone considering the mod should really try to understand how its going to impact them by also understanding the specific problem they're trying to solve.

This is the sort of change a rider makes to resolve an issue or deficiency they're having within the full scope of their current configuration. Its not something you just slap on any bike and it will become better -- it will be different and the rider needs to weigh whether that difference is confluent with their performance goals.
flag jimicarl
Posted: Sep 8, 2023 at 8:51 Quote
Thank you for your responses. I went ahead with a +/-1° headset & slacked it out. Found a new set on PB, so was a cheap experiment.

At the same time - overhauled my ratty old Manitou Magnum Pro - in favor of the Pike the bike was wearing - even tho the Pike is a scosh longer, crown seat-to-axle. That, mostly as a hedge against a to-soft mid-stroke at the same sag. Hard on the brakes - the Magnum just holds up better according to my arm-o-meter.

Jury's still out. Was less of a change that I expected. I've only ridden the bike a couple times & even tho the geo change is minimal - I can def detect a change. That bike, this time of year when the trails are hard & beat-down - is a handful. Even with softer-inflated 2.8s, it beats me up. So yea - full-sus bikes are the ticket.

But I felt enough improvement in confidence, that I'm really looking forward to the wet season - where I think a softer trail surface & a dash more confidence will give the ol' TJ another few years.

Fingers crossed!

 


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