Upgraded brakes affecting low speed steering?

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Upgraded brakes affecting low speed steering?
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flag andhaole
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 14:10 Quote
Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this or not, but I have a 2022 Santa Cruz Blur I use for climbing and have been really happy with it. However I do pretty long and fast descents so I upgraded the brakes from the SRAM Level TLs with Centerline 160 rotors to SRAM Code RSCs with HS2 180 rotors.

The new brakes have great feel and stopping power, but now, without having made any other changes, the steering stability during low speed climbing is dramatically different. Now the steering wants to flop over to one side or the other and I am constantly correcting it, whereas before with the Level TLs it was super stable and stayed nice and neutral / straight.

The shop I bought the brakes from says that the weight is negligible and shouldn't make a difference, but the only change I made was the brakes and the effect was immediate and pronounced.

Does this sound right? Wondering if there is anything I can do short of reverting to the old brakes.

Thanks!
flag huvudvind
O+
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 15:36 Quote
maybe a reversed angleset could counteract the effect of the heavier brakes.
flag andhaole
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 16:35 Quote
NewmarketMTB wrote:
Did you change hoses too? Could be shorter and/or stiffer lines perhaps creating some tension.

Yes, the hoses were changed. I thought about this but I think the hoses are the same material/diameter so I really wasn't sure that could impact it like that.
flag gmoss
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 16:59 Quote
Swapping brakes would not have that affect on their own. If brakes lines are too short, could affect how it feels, not weight of the lines, or size. That is what NMmtb meant I believe.

I had a 22 Blur TR with a 120 then 130 fork, with 180mm rear and 200 front. Never had that feeling.
flag andhaole
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 17:04 Quote
gmoss wrote:
If brakes lines are too short, could affect how it feels, not weight of the lines, or size. That is what NMmtb meant I believe.

Right, I got that, my comment was that the lines should be the same so they shouldn't be stiffer anyway. I guess it's possible that they are shorter now though but it seems like there is still a good amount of slack.
flag gmoss
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 17:10 Quote
May be, most are longer than needed. I would check other things, like air pressure in the susp, sag, to see if anything else is having an affect. Check to make sure wheels are turning freely, axles tight, etc. Anything they would have had to touch to replace the brakes.

I experience a little bit of a flop on the bike I have now compared to the Blur, but it is all due to geo. The Blur should not feel that way at all.
flag Gravelben
O+
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 17:49 Quote
Are the new brake levers on a different angle or position (or the same clamp position with different lever length), changing your hand position/angle on the bars?

Are the brakes adjusted wrong and rubbing a little, making you lose some momentum and wobble at low speed?

I agree with everyone else that the weight of the brakes should make no discernable difference at all.
flag huvudvind
O+
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 17:53 Quote
it could be possible the increased weight of the new hs2 rotors is creating a stronger gyroscopic effect.
flag Gravelben
O+
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 18:04 Quote
huvudvind wrote:
it could be possible the increased weight of the new hs2 rotors is creating a stronger gyroscopic effect.

Stronger gyroscopic effect (even if it was significant with such a tiny difference relative to the rest of the wheel+tyre, which I don't think it would be) wouldn't make the steering more floppy at low speed though, if any change I think that would be a stabilising effect at higher speed?
flag huvudvind
O+
Posted: Aug 28, 2023 at 21:15 Quote
this guy sounds like he climbs pretty fast
flag MT36
Posted: Aug 29, 2023 at 7:52 Quote
You mention upping the rotor size. The added weight of the 180s may not seem like a lot when compared to the 160mm on paper, but the moving wheel is where differences in weights get more apparent because of the rotational forces... ya know, physics and shit. it's way more likely to be the rotor, not the brake.
flag gmoss
Posted: Aug 29, 2023 at 9:10 Quote
There's no floppiness in this bikes design even with 200 and 180 mm rotors, and even then with a 130mm fork on it, which slackens the HA.

I am pretty sensitive to changes, and if this is being felt, then the OP is VERY sensitive to set up. I am curious to find out what is causing it. All we can do is guess and pontificate.

Hope you figure it out.
flag 16rally
Posted: Aug 29, 2023 at 11:03 Quote
With internally routed brake lines it is quite possible that the fork was removed to facilitate brake line replacement. If so, are you certain that the fork/headset was reinstalled correctly?
flag andhaole
Posted: Aug 29, 2023 at 11:44 Quote
16rally wrote:
With internally routed brake lines it is quite possible that the fork was removed to facilitate brake line replacement. If so, are you certain that the fork/headset was reinstalled correctly?

I had the work done by a reputable shop. So I think so, but since I didn't do it myself I guess I really don't know. I can ask them.
flag Gravelben
O+
Posted: Aug 29, 2023 at 14:47 Quote
gmoss wrote:
...I am curious to find out what is causing it. All we can do is guess and pontificate.

I'm curious about it too, my best guess is a changed lever position/angle making for a different hand position on the grips.

Hands moved towards inner or outer edge of the grips can simulate the effect of a narrower or wider handlebar which definitely affects steering feel and stability.

Brake levers angled steeper or flatter can affect how you weight your hands, and riding position whether your elbows are more up and out or down and in, etc.

If they took the handlebar off the stem while swapping things over the bar rotation could have been changed too, with similar effect.
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