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Hardtails keep you honest

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Hardtails keep you honest
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flag joelsman
Posted: Nov 16, 2023 at 16:27 Quote
Depends on what you want really. You definitely can go faster on fs over rough trails. You have to be more precise on a hardtail
flag vermontana
O+
Posted: Nov 16, 2023 at 16:51 Quote
If I only had one bike, would definitely be FS for the speed and confidence, but having the hardtail is really fun to mix it up on mellower trails or with slower riding groups.
flag mtnbikeracer76
Posted: Nov 16, 2023 at 17:12 Quote
As someone who has ridden both hardtails and FS bikes, I feel that the hardtail makes you learn the fastest, smoothest line. With an FS bike, you more or less can just point the bike in the direction you want and just go.

BTW, I cut my teeth on a full rigid SS. Had to definitely learn the smoothest and fastest line. When I switched to a FS bike, I could ride harder and faster because I didn't always have to find the perfect line. YMMV.
flag Gravelben
O+
Posted: Nov 16, 2023 at 17:16 Quote
The short answer is 'it depends'.

FS can definitely be faster on rough trails, on smoother more moderate trails any speed difference is more down to the rider. On one of my favourite blue trails for an example (fast flowing natural singletrack with a few rocky rooty sections and jumps), there is only 1 second difference between my best times on FS and hardtail. The limiting factor is obviously me not the bike!

Hardtails can help you develop better riding skills and make good technique an instinctive habit, as they generally give more feedback and punish you more for bad technique.

Hardtails can also make mellower trails much more fun and involved.

I like having both - the simplicity and involvement of a hardtail is great but FS does give more confidence to hit features and push my own limits, with more forgiveness and margin for error.
flag lookseasyfromhere
Posted: Nov 16, 2023 at 17:36 Quote
I have both. I tend to go through blocks of 3 to 6 weeks almost exclusively riding one or the other. I find that when I switch bikes I'm riding it better than the last time I was on it. When I transition from hardtail to full sus my line choice and technical riding has improved. When I transition from full sus to hardtail my confidence and speed has improved. Also, I ride all the same trail on my ht that I do on my fs.

Finally, you can always go faster, regardless of tool.
flag BarneyStinson
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 0:30 Quote
I’ve recently bought a hardtail after exclusively riding full suspension for the past 15 years.

My full sus is (unsurprisingly) far more forgiving than my hardtail.

My hardtail gives me far more feedback than my full sus.

They compliment each other.

The hardtail makes things more challenging (fun!) and makes me concentrate on technique, especially braking, because it doesn’t gain, control or lose speed as easily as the full sus.

The full sus is inherently faster and because I tend to be carrying more energy it gives me more line choice such as side hits and doubles.

Riding in the UK I love the fact that maintenance on my hardtail after a muddy ride is much simpler. I also love the fact that my hardtail frame was a bargain and I was able to build it up from spare parts.

What really surprised me was how much more fun my hardtail makes easier trails. Stuff that I ride without a second thought on my full sus is proper squeaky bum time on my hardtail which is great.

I never used to subscribe to the whole “better to be underbiked” thing, but I am becoming a convert.
flag starkle
FL
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 1:25 Quote
I also recently bought one as a bit of a 'winter hack' and to see what all the fuss was about.

Rode it once and thought 'Nah, I'll just stick to the full sus'.

Got out on it again, and now I can't stop riding it. Usually my midweek ride choice and occasional weekend big ride now!


Yeah it's not as fast, and you feel a bit more beat up, but I ride everything at the local I would on either bike Beer . Just makes it a bit more 'exciting' lol

photo
flag Explodo
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 7:14 Quote
Riders with good skills can still go fast as hell on a hardtail, but not all hardtails are the same. Most folks don't run a 160 fork on a hardtail, but doing so allows your front end to go just as fast as all the nice 150/160 bikes. At that point, you're riding the fork a lot and controlling the back end with your legs. That can be hard on your knees...that's why I had to give up hardtails. I have one bad knee that couldn't take it anymore.

Now, a lot of people will say that 160 on a hardtail is unbalanced and no good, but those people are full of crap. If you just want to go slow and pick through stuff, then maybe a 160 is excessive, but if you're still about going fast it's so much fun on a hardtail.
flag vermontana
O+
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 8:02 Quote
Explodo wrote:
Riders with good skills can still go fast as hell on a hardtail, but not all hardtails are the same. Most folks don't run a 160 fork on a hardtail, but doing so allows your front end to go just as fast as all the nice 150/160 bikes. At that point, you're riding the fork a lot and controlling the back end with your legs. That can be hard on your knees...that's why I had to give up hardtails. I have one bad knee that couldn't take it anymore.

Now, a lot of people will say that 160 on a hardtail is unbalanced and no good, but those people are full of crap. If you just want to go slow and pick through stuff, then maybe a 160 is excessive, but if you're still about going fast it's so much fun on a hardtail.

Absolutely love my Chromag Rootdown with a 160 fork, "sized down" to M/L and it feels like a big dirt jumper. Can ride any tech trail I do on my 170/170 FS just a bit more carefully, its actually a fair bit faster on flow trails with how quick the hardtail changes direction on those short chain stays. My line choice is always sharper after being on the hardtail for a period and switching back to FS.
flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 9:20 Quote
photo

My hardtail is amazing. It does have a 3 triangle design that gives it a lot of flex in the rear wheel. So it ends up feeling like a bike with 10mm travel on the back.

If its a long slack hardtail, and you practice, you probably will be able to keep up with your mates on full sus bikes, or even out ride them.

I wanted a mondraker foxxy, but 8 months into owning my Nitro bikes Hoon, I don't see myself bothering with a full sus. Unless I move to the alps
flag Explodo
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 13:15 Quote
toddnzmtb wrote:
Nobody ever really upgrades to a hardtail...

So you guys are riding flat pedals on the hardtail and the softail?

Standing up pedalling smooths stuff out a lot but it's pretty hard going!

I find being clipped onto the pedals to be really useful on a hardtail because the back end moves around so much on its own in the rough stuff that the extra attachment is very useful. In fact, the exact reason I went to clipless pedals was losing feet while bombing rough trail around Moab when I lived in Utah in the late 90s.
flag BarneyStinson
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 13:18 Quote
Flats on both for me. Another reason that I enjoy the hardtail, because if I get my foot position wrong it bounces me off the pedals.
flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 13:21 Quote
toddnzmtb wrote:
Nobody ever really upgrades to a hardtail...

So you guys are riding flat pedals on the hardtail and the softail?

Standing up pedalling smooths stuff out a lot but it's pretty hard going!

yea, clips are essential on my soft-tail. Its like a trampoline otherwise. The flexy rear end obviously has no damping, so I just get bounced off flat pedals.

I found heavier endruo/gravity tires make it easier to pedal too as the bike pings around less on rough stuff
flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 13:30 Quote
toddnzmtb wrote:
Nobody ever really upgrades to a hardtail...

Thats an interesting one - I would rather have an expensive steel hardtail than a cheap ally full sus.
SO would going from a Caliber Bossnut with a RS 35, to a Pole Taival with a lyric - be an upgrade?
I am genuinely curious to see what would be faster overall. I keep hoping GMBN will do a video on exactly this.
flag Gravelben
O+
Posted: Nov 17, 2023 at 14:12 Quote
Explodo wrote:
Now, a lot of people will say that 160 on a hardtail is unbalanced and no good, but those people are full of crap.

Or maybe they just have a different opinion to you.

I haven't tried more than 140 on a hardtail myself, but I find that great.

The concern I'd have with a 160 hardtail is how much the geometry changes in compression - I guess as long as the frame is designed for that travel to have good geometry when sagged it would work, but if say you chucked a 160 fork on a bike designed for 120 I don't think it would ride too well.
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