whiteryanc

@Jshemuel: It doesn't mean Curious Creatures is gouging, while OrNot is fair, or any other combination of these things. Their businesses are different, their operating costs are different, their margin goals are different. As I've said, buy whatever you want I'm just pointing out the grey area that most people don't know about, or chose to ignore that exists in the apparel industry.

It's expensive, but making things in the US is intrinsically far more expensive than products made in Vietnam or China. I did a cost-analysis of an Asian made Poly jersey in another comment so I won't go through the whole thing. 200gsm cotton is quite heavy, and not particularly cheap. With more manual processing like tye-dye your costs will sky rocket. There's likely padding involved in the margin as well, but this is a tiny, new company that's trying to likely pay back start-up expenses (people, marketing, initial manufacturing development costs, etc) and also make a living which is extremely difficult to do at the cost of a commodity-priced tee you're used to seeing from Bella & Canvas or similar who makes garments by the millions. Scale is the name of the game in apparel. Now should they have picked a more special material to justify higher prices? Maybe, but their costs aren't that outrageous especially for the SS stuff. If you don't like supporting little businesses by paying a slight premium, they won't exist. Low, commodity pricing only exists because of the exploitation (I don't use that word to be hyperbolic, it's just factual) of every single person in the supply chain of big-box/main stream clothing including the sales staff in the US.

Do you manufacture clothing/work in sourcing/sell clothing? Curious what your context for costs are as it pertains to the value of clothes made of Polyester (most are now using recycled too). Let's do a costing exercise for direct to consumer: • Material (100% recycled poly, maybe a special knit or using a treatment): $4-6/Meter, average usage apx 1m including waste = $4-6 • Trims (decoration, zippers, etc) = $1-2 • Labor (cutting sewing, packaging, shipping, etc) = $4-5 in a Vietnamese or Chinese factory • Overhead (factories typically charge an overhead charge to cover electricity, rent, etc) = $2 • Shipping (bulk, by ocean) = $.50 • Shipping to distribution and distribution facility costs (warehousing and inventory mangement) = $1 • Shipping to customer costs (most people expect free or discounted shipping) = $3-5 ** So we're now at $15.50 at the lower estimate to have that item manufactured and shipped. This does not include all the costs to the company itself that have to be covered. Let's assume the company wants to continue to grow, innovate, pay their people well, etc, you'll need 55-65% margin in order to be stable and allow for both growth and security for the company. Now you're talking $37.50 as the most base price assuming decent margin. So sure, for DTC there's padding built in for better margin for myriad reasons (inject more into marketing, pay employees better, etc). Now assume you're that company but operate primarly as a wholesaler, you need to make your margin but the retailer also needs to make their margin. Let's assume more modest margin at 50%, we're already now at $75. Last, factor in the expectation of discount that the majority of consumers have, meaning it's now difficult to sell any item at full price you can expect some margin pad for that expected discount to move the product (show me a brand that sells everything at full price). So while I agree pure DTC is likely overcharging, most brands are a blend and have to cost-average margin meaning $50-60 final retail is what I would consider moderately reasonable as an average purchase price. See how not simple that is?

"Made in Asia" used as negative aspect of a frame is pure ignorance. Taiwan has been and still is the leading manufacturer in the highest end technical bikes (and textiles, and computer chips, etc). You should want the bike to come from Taiwan, and generally wages in Taiwan are not as low as your antiquated mindset probably think they are.

I feel like they lost a step to RAAW here, but I suppose one of them had to differentiate at least aesthetically. This to me is Guerilla Gravity meets RM in a busy/not as simple execution as it could be.

This is actually a great explainer video. They’re spot on with the technical limitations of the claims of Gore Tex, or any waterproof/breathable material. The one benefit you get from buying a Gore-licensed garment is that Gore has stringent manufacturing qualifications that garments must pass in order to wear the Gore name. While it won’t be any more breathable or waterproof than an eVent or Polartec shell, the quality is almost always higher in the finished product. Worth the price? Maybe, maybe not but you can just go buy cheaper pants if you want.

Oh man, this is 100% mothership (Outside) intervention invading an otherwise great podcast feed. Love you guys, but have to call out how ridiculous this is. Didn't think Outside owned SBT...but the Outside.io site is certainly getting money for advertising/sponsored content. https://www.outside.io

Peloton layoff news is like reporting on Lululemon layoff's on Pinkbike. I'd argue it has almost no correlation to the industry as the majority of it's customer base are generally non-cyclists (yes of course some are). Now if Zwift was laying people off, that's related.

The hand-wringing over expensive apparel by the same people who willingly drop 2k on a set of carbon wheels is laughable. It's about personal prioritization of your spending and the associations you want to make by voting with your wallet. $132 for a high quality short is still on the high end, but it's clearly a smaller brand who's going to be incurring every possible marginal fee for MOQ's from fabric to production. Looking at the specs, every single material/trim choice in the current market incurs a 10-15% increase over non-recycled variants not including near monthly increases in fabric/trim costs from suppliers. I wouldn't be surprised if these were coming in at $40-45 landed cost which puts their pricing as appropriate when you factor in overhead and their profit targets. People who want to wear something different, identify with this messaging of sustainability and not buy from Aliexpress and ride it into the ground for a decade (literal example cited in the comments already) will buy this brand. Some people ride cheap aluminum wheels and wear nice clothes, some prefer nicer wheels and many prefer to have both.

Commencal seems smarter than to put a brake line through the HT in production...hope I'm right. I've wanted to see a shorter travel/rowdy Commencal for a while now, very happy that they're testing out the concept.