Downcounty-ed XC bike; how to improve/downhill further?

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Downcounty-ed XC bike; how to improve/downhill further?
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flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 2:44 Quote
Hi,
I've been mountain biking for a year now. Coming from a background of cyclocross and gravel; it was natural for me to choose an XC bike as my first MTB (2018 AL Trek procaliber 6 29er).

I got into the techy stuff fast and quickly 'Downcountry-ed' my XC bike (50mm stem, 760mm riser bars, 2.6' DHF minions, dropper, 1x, bigger rotors, swapped 100mm fork for 120mm).

This conversion (coupled with coaching) has allowed me to hit trails the bike was never made for. I'm regularly going to Rogate downhill bike park and hitting a range downhill trails. I'm really enjoying it!

However, I feel like things could be much better on the bike. Sometimes I feel it difficult to get weight into the front wheel on steep and sharp berms/corners, as if the rear wheel is doing more of the steering.

I also feel like the huge 29er in the back is excessively weighty on corners and on jumps/bunny hops.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience/advice with cockpit setup that might help to negate some of the front wheel issues; i.e make the front wheel feel more planted, but maintain that upright/back body position.

Also - I think I'd love to mullet the bike, as I'm keen to see how the bike feels with a lighter more nimble rear end. However, I feel like 27.5 mullet is just going push the XC geometry further into the unknown. Anyone have any experience here?

Obviously - correct thing to do would be get a trail frame and move the bits over. As such, if no XC advice is available, anyone know any nice capable hardtail frames that'll accept a 120mm fork?

Many thanks in advance!
flag TimMog
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 3:40 Quote
I think you just need to work actively on weighting the front wheel more. No amount of cockpit tweaking will make up for poor body position on the bike
flag jeremy3220
O+ FL
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 7:30 Quote
Lower the stem. You don't want to be upright (hinge at the hips).
flag Mountainfrog
O+
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 7:57 Quote
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-downcountry-mountain-bikes/

Consider a Kona Hei Hei, Ibis Ripley, or Revel Ranger also.
flag ssantana
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 8:53 Quote
I'm not surprised that the front wheel is having issues with grounding most of the changes you listed pushed your weight back of center so now you have to more agressively get over the front in order for it to bite. This makes going downhill on steeper stuff feel more stable but on flats and climbs you are going to feel the front being a little light unless you really lean over it. Mulleting the bike will only make this worse as it affectively raises the front even more. You should be able to compensate with technique however if that's the kind of riding you really want to do a dedicated trail bike seems like a better approach if you can budget it
flag gnarnaimo
O+ FL
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 10:15 Quote
You have already slackened the headtube by overforking, mulleting will exaggerate this and not only greatly messing up the geo (causing several issues such as what ssantana is suggesting) but could also be compromising the headtube strength of the bike.

It sounds like you are riding the wrong bike.
flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 10:48 Quote
Thanks for the replies! It does sound like the wrong bike. Headtube strength is a concern, as I'm hitting rougher terrain and bigger drops/jumps as my skills improve.

My dropped handlebar bike background just found it easier to buy an XC bike - I feel like XC bikes share some aesthetic and familiar handling qualities. However, a trail bike would have been much smarter. I also now think enduro and trail frames look amazing, which I didn't before!

To keep costs down, I'd go for a frame and move everything across. Anyone know of any trail 29er frames that could use my 120mm forks? Or just sell the XC bike and get something with +130mm?
flag lancemountainbike
FL
Posted: Nov 14, 2021 at 21:11 Quote
Maxants33 wrote:

To keep costs down, I'd go for a frame and move everything across. Anyone know of any trail 29er frames that could use my 120mm forks? Or just sell the XC bike and get something with +130mm?

It kinda sounds like you know you want a bigger bike but, beyond that, you don't really know what you want. If it's possible, try to rent or demo some different options. Maybe want you really want is a sweet enduro sled, not a trail bike!

If that's not a option, I'd ask yourself a few questions first. Are you really going to come out ahead buying a new frame and selling the old versus buying a whole new bike and selling a complete bike? Does your current bike even have a dropper, and if so, will it be the correct size and have enough drop? Are your current rims light duty XC rims and if so are they really going to hold up? What are odds that 8 months from now you be among the legions asking if you can put a 170 mm fork on your new 120 mm frame?
flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 16, 2021 at 14:50 Quote
lancemountainbike wrote:
Maxants33 wrote:

To keep costs down, I'd go for a frame and move everything across. Anyone know of any trail 29er frames that could use my 120mm forks? Or just sell the XC bike and get something with +130mm?

It kinda sounds like you know you want a bigger bike but, beyond that, you don't really know what you want. If it's possible, try to rent or demo some different options. Maybe want you really want is a sweet enduro sled, not a trail bike!

If that's not a option, I'd ask yourself a few questions first. Are you really going to come out ahead buying a new frame and selling the old versus buying a whole new bike and selling a complete bike? Does your current bike even have a dropper, and if so, will it be the correct size and have enough drop? Are your current rims light duty XC rims and if so are they really going to hold up? What are odds that 8 months from now you be among the legions asking if you can put a 170 mm fork on your new 120 mm frame?

Great answer! Lots to chew there. I think you're right, I would benefit most from an entire step up in type of bike. I also like the idea of entering an enduro race at some point in the far far future. I'll start eyeing up full sus bikes on eBay.
Many thanks!
flag mior
Mod
Posted: Nov 16, 2021 at 15:10 Quote
Maxants33 wrote:
lancemountainbike wrote:
Maxants33 wrote:

To keep costs down, I'd go for a frame and move everything across. Anyone know of any trail 29er frames that could use my 120mm forks? Or just sell the XC bike and get something with +130mm?

It kinda sounds like you know you want a bigger bike but, beyond that, you don't really know what you want. If it's possible, try to rent or demo some different options. Maybe want you really want is a sweet enduro sled, not a trail bike!

If that's not a option, I'd ask yourself a few questions first. Are you really going to come out ahead buying a new frame and selling the old versus buying a whole new bike and selling a complete bike? Does your current bike even have a dropper, and if so, will it be the correct size and have enough drop? Are your current rims light duty XC rims and if so are they really going to hold up? What are odds that 8 months from now you be among the legions asking if you can put a 170 mm fork on your new 120 mm frame?

Great answer! Lots to chew there. I think you're right, I would benefit most from an entire step up in type of bike. I also like the idea of entering an enduro race at some point in the far far future. I'll start eyeing up full sus bikes on eBay.
Many thanks!
check out the intense 951 series
flag timnoyce
Posted: Nov 23, 2021 at 5:15 Quote
As a Rogate local I'd say that there aren't any trails there which wouldn't be ok for you to ride on that bike tbh. I think as others have said, it's more to do with how you are riding the bike than the bike necessarily being the limiting factor. Weight over the front end is critical and the harder you drive the front wheel into the ground, the more grip you are going to have. Also, what tyres are you running? Getting a more 'suitable' front tyre is going to help with the grip too. Just keep riding your bike and change things incrementally. How many spacers do you have under your stem? Lowering that down to compensate for the raising of the fork might make the steering more neutral again. Keep enjoying it and just keep an eye out for some bargains in the classifieds as they appear.
flag Maxants33
Posted: Nov 25, 2021 at 12:41 Quote
timnoyce wrote:
As a Rogate local I'd say that there aren't any trails there which wouldn't be ok for you to ride on that bike tbh. I think as others have said, it's more to do with how you are riding the bike than the bike necessarily being the limiting factor. Weight over the front end is critical and the harder you drive the front wheel into the ground, the more grip you are going to have. Also, what tyres are you running? Getting a more 'suitable' front tyre is going to help with the grip too. Just keep riding your bike and change things incrementally. How many spacers do you have under your stem? Lowering that down to compensate for the raising of the fork might make the steering more neutral again. Keep enjoying it and just keep an eye out for some bargains in the classifieds as they appear.



Thanks for the rogate specific advice. Too many spacers, i dropped the stem about 1.5cm and noticed an improvement. I'm running 2.6 Minion DHF, they look great on an XC frame!

I've been looking at trail bikes, but not found one thats got quite as good components as my XC bike for the money.
I also took a friend's full sus enduro bike down a few runs at bike park Wales last weekend. I found everything was way easier. I think its the underbiking I've been doing. Makes you work your skills and appreciate a more serious bike! It makes me interested in homing my skills underbiked for another year before upgrading.

I'm looking at getting an angle adjusting headset to bring the front down a tad and slacken the fork out. Either that or go for an orange crush 29er that's been on eBay for ages (but has clearly had the fork and components downgraded) .
Difficult to decide which to do ...

But thanks for all the advice!
flag Maxants33
Posted: Dec 28, 2021 at 2:34 Quote
Hello,
Just thought I'd update if anyone is interested - but I decided to give up my beloved down-country Trek Procaliber frame.

The Down-Country dream just doesn't fit for me.
A bike that can do longer rides AND hit the bike parks sounds great, but I have a gravel bike for long distance off road bike packing already. I might as well have a more trail orientated bike and enjoy the benefits of specialisation.

Plus (despite being a size Large) the Trek Procaliber just felt very crampt with the short stem and hiked up BB (from the longer then spec fork). I think the more forward upper body position may have also been contributing to a chronic wrist pain issue I developed shortly after building the Trek...
However - I did think the Trek was a real looker:

photo

photo



I got a new On-One Scandal frame for £250, and a new Rockshox 35 for £150 - all on ebay! So I've moved most of the components onto this and now have a really beautiful hard tail which I intend to decorate with IRN BRU decals.

photo

I've only been out on the bike once - and the feeling is much better - landing drops, getting airborne, general shoulder/wrist comfort - all feel way more good-er.


* I figured I would write this up - as I expect there may be other people like myself, just starting out in MTB, who find the DownCountry dream very appealing - however, for me, I probably should have just gone for a trail bike to start with and saved myself a lot of expenditure. Although, it was fun riding and building two very different bikes!
flag ssantana
Posted: Dec 28, 2021 at 9:50 Quote
Maxants33 wrote:
Hello,
Just thought I'd update if anyone is interested - but I decided to give up my beloved down-country Trek Procaliber frame.

The Down-Country dream just doesn't fit for me.
A bike that can do longer rides AND hit the bike parks sounds great, but I have a gravel bike for long distance off road bike packing already. I might as well have a more trail orientated bike and enjoy the benefits of specialisation.

Plus (despite being a size Large) the Trek Procaliber just felt very crampt with the short stem and hiked up BB (from the longer then spec fork). I think the more forward upper body position may have also been contributing to a chronic wrist pain issue I developed shortly after building the Trek...
However - I did think the Trek was a real looker:

photo

photo



I got a new On-One Scandal frame for £250, and a new Rockshox 35 for £150 - all on ebay! So I've moved most of the components onto this and now have a really beautiful hard tail which I intend to decorate with IRN BRU decals.

photo

I've only been out on the bike once - and the feeling is much better - landing drops, getting airborne, general shoulder/wrist comfort - all feel way more good-er.


* I figured I would write this up - as I expect there may be other people like myself, just starting out in MTB, who find the DownCountry dream very appealing - however, for me, I probably should have just gone for a trail bike to start with and saved myself a lot of expenditure. Although, it was fun riding and building two very different bikes!

Congrats! Im glad you were able to find something that works for you! I agree with you that the downcountry ethos sounds great in theory however in reality it seems like most people would be better suited on a trail bike.
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