Dh bike geo vs enduro geo

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Dh bike geo vs enduro geo
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flag Daray
O+ FL
Posted: Jun 12, 2023 at 20:27 Quote
Hey all, I’ve had a handful of enduro bikes and I’ve now ventured into my first dh bike- what I’m wondering is why the reach on so many dh bikes, including the one I have is so much shorter than on the enduro bikes. I have an s3 demo with a 445mm reach and previously had the s3 enduro with a 464mm reach- the geo on the demo doesn’t feel bad, but I am used to longer. I’m 5’9” should I have gone with a S4? Or I also notice lots of newer dh bikes, commencal, Nukeproof, canyon have longer reaches, there’s not much of an opportunity to demo dh bikes near me so going off geo charts and reviews.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Jun 14, 2023 at 6:20 Quote
Dh bikes are designed only to go downhill and generally are intended to hit higher speeds on steeper terrain, as such your weight wants to be a little further back...the slack head angle and generally longer chainstays means you still get the long wheelbase og a long reach endure bike for stability but the percentage of you mass over the rear wheel is greater on the downhill bike than the enduro. The new long slack endures are designed to be stable downhill also due to the wheelbase but the longer reach and steep seat angle pulls your weight forwards so that you can climb better with them also. Basically enduro bikes are aiming to get almost the same stability and wheelbase as a downhill bike but are more balanced in weight shift between uphill and downhill whereas dh bikes are balanced in weight shift purely for going down hill so put you in a slightly safer position in terms of preventing over the bar moments.
flag Daray
O+ FL
Posted: Jun 14, 2023 at 9:01 Quote
Thanks @Danzzz88 that is a helpful explanation. Seemed counterintuitive to me, but makes sense too.
flag HeatedRotor
FL
Posted: Jun 14, 2023 at 10:50 Quote
I've recently been tearing into a few bikes that had the mid modern reach changes... ie larges around 470 instead of the new modern 485ish
on the slightly shorter reach bikes they are much easier to ride on alot of trails, they tip in better, ride steep stuff better, more ability to move weight combine that with long stays and you get all the stability benefits of long reach.

A few brands like commencal are retreating on the long reach idea, with the SX coming back a bit and the new v5 to come back even more.

its why people love DH bikes so much.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Jun 15, 2023 at 11:34 Quote
I mean both styles have different advantages and disadvantage. If you take 2 bikes with the same wheelbase for stability but one is long reach short chainstays and one is short reach long chainstays, the longer reach short chainstay bike will handle sharper and climb better but the shorter reach bike will feel safer on super steep stuff and allow more freedom of body movement. On a dh bike also don't forget they are going to feel a lot safer and more planted also due to the increased bottom bracket drop at sag so you feel more in the bike than on top...plus they are plusher in general. Dh bike tracks are often more open with larger radius turns and chunkier terrain, enduro is usually tighter with slightly less chunky terrain, although these days the gap is getting much closer.

One point I will make though is if you also like riding flat trails, shorter reach feels miles better than long reach steep seat tubes..the long reach and steep seat angle means you have to have your saddle really high to get full leg extension as you are more directly over the bottom bracket, you have to arch your back and Ben forwards moreand place more weight on your hands, also imo the leg transfer of power doesn't feel as good and I get fatigued much faster on a long reach steep seat tube back when riding flat terrain...Enduro bikes are best for uphill and downhill, tight trails but not great on flat.
flag shakazulu12
O+
Posted: Jun 15, 2023 at 12:40 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
I mean both styles have different advantages and disadvantage. If you take 2 bikes with the same wheelbase for stability but one is long reach short chainstays and one is short reach long chainstays, the longer reach short chainstay bike will handle sharper and climb better but the shorter reach bike will feel safer on super steep stuff and allow more freedom of body movement. On a dh bike also don't forget they are going to feel a lot safer and more planted also due to the increased bottom bracket drop at sag so you feel more in the bike than on top...plus they are plusher in general. Dh bike tracks are often more open with larger radius turns and chunkier terrain, enduro is usually tighter with slightly less chunky terrain, although these days the gap is getting much closer.

One point I will make though is if you also like riding flat trails, shorter reach feels miles better than long reach steep seat tubes..the long reach and steep seat angle means you have to have your saddle really high to get full leg extension as you are more directly over the bottom bracket, you have to arch your back and Ben forwards moreand place more weight on your hands, also imo the leg transfer of power doesn't feel as good and I get fatigued much faster on a long reach steep seat tube back when riding flat terrain...Enduro bikes are best for uphill and downhill, tight trails but not great on flat.

Damn, I was trying to figure out why my Spire feels so much less comfortable here in AZ than it did in the PNW. PNW riding was long uphills, just grinding away. AZ riding is more meandering. We do climb, but it's not really sustained sit and spin and I've been messing with the cockpit ever since I moved here trying to figure out why I felt different. Makes a lot of sense stepping back and thinking of it that way.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Jun 16, 2023 at 1:42 Quote
shakazulu12 wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
I mean both styles have different advantages and disadvantage. If you take 2 bikes with the same wheelbase for stability but one is long reach short chainstays and one is short reach long chainstays, the longer reach short chainstay bike will handle sharper and climb better but the shorter reach bike will feel safer on super steep stuff and allow more freedom of body movement. On a dh bike also don't forget they are going to feel a lot safer and more planted also due to the increased bottom bracket drop at sag so you feel more in the bike than on top...plus they are plusher in general. Dh bike tracks are often more open with larger radius turns and chunkier terrain, enduro is usually tighter with slightly less chunky terrain, although these days the gap is getting much closer.

One point I will make though is if you also like riding flat trails, shorter reach feels miles better than long reach steep seat tubes..the long reach and steep seat angle means you have to have your saddle really high to get full leg extension as you are more directly over the bottom bracket, you have to arch your back and Ben forwards moreand place more weight on your hands, also imo the leg transfer of power doesn't feel as good and I get fatigued much faster on a long reach steep seat tube back when riding flat terrain...Enduro bikes are best for uphill and downhill, tight trails but not great on flat.

Damn, I was trying to figure out why my Spire feels so much less comfortable here in AZ than it did in the PNW. PNW riding was long uphills, just grinding away. AZ riding is more meandering. We do climb, but it's not really sustained sit and spin and I've been messing with the cockpit ever since I moved here trying to figure out why I felt different. Makes a lot of sense stepping back and thinking of it that way.

Yea you could alleviate the problem a bit by fitting higher rise bars and tilting them back a bit or more stem spacers for the flatter trails and super steep dh stuff and then dropping things down a bit and tilting the bars forwards for the more uphill bits...when I think about it that might just be the next best thing, they should have on the fly cockpit adjustment just like we have dropper posts or rear on the fly linkage geo adjustment like the Canyon Strive has....because at the moment everything is a compromise. These new enduro bikes are great for what they are intended for, winching up and plummeting down, but flat trails are definitely worse and still the DH feel and capabilities still don't compare to a true DH bike. If you were somewhere with lift access and wide open proper DH tracks a full on DH bike makes the most sense, for regular trail, xc riding a trail bike makes most sense...enduro bikes sort of fill the gap between the two but don't feel as good as either specialist bike except for very specific gnarly tight twisty tracks where you need the agility but ability to soak up large chunk at the same time. I ride an sb165 and it is a lot of bike, I love it but I know it's not the bike I should really be riding, the media is pushing all these enduro bikes in everyone's face but there is very few people I think that can actually gain the whole benefits of one and that they are ideally suited to their terrain...but at the same time they can do anything which is the flip side of the coin, they aren't perfect at anything but they can do everything decently well.
flag Natchot
O+
Posted: Jun 23, 2023 at 2:17 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
One point I will make though is if you also like riding flat trails, shorter reach feels miles better than long reach steep seat tubes..the long reach and steep seat angle means you have to have your saddle really high to get full leg extension as you are more directly over the bottom bracket, you have to arch your back and Ben forwards moreand place more weight on your hands, also imo the leg transfer of power doesn't feel as good and I get fatigued much faster on a long reach steep seat tube back when riding flat terrain...Enduro bikes are best for uphill and downhill, tight trails but not great on flat.

Nice analysis. I’m experiencing all of that exactly (Transition Spire).
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