Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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flag Circe
Posted: Jun 8, 2020 at 23:32 Quote
Onyx CL 148 Rear Hub - 447
Industry Nine CL 148 Hydra - 265

I hope Shimano gets their shit together. Scylence rear hub is claimed at 245g
flag notsosikmik
O+
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 0:23 Quote
Newer Onyx Vesper 148 is claimed to be around 371g so a little better. I really like them a lot and love the instant engagement and feel that it has. Worth the extra weight ro me.
flag hmstuna
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 0:50 Quote
Something that has always bothered me with vespers is their front hub weights. The rear hub makes sense reinforced hub shell and all that, but 177g for a front hub isn't very light. It's not super heavy, but considering how much effort they seemed to put in to get the weight down with machining the flanges, it does seem a bit portly. For reference a 240 is 147g. Having such a heavy front hub when the selling point over last gen is weight makes me wonder if they actually know how to optimize hub weight. If dt did a sprag clutch hub would it be significantly lighter? Or do onyx actually have the rear hub dialed and didn't for us as much on the front?
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 1:23 Quote
hmstuna wrote:
Something that has always bothered me with vespers is their front hub weights. The rear hub makes sense reinforced hub shell and all that, but 177g for a front hub isn't very light. It's not super heavy, but considering how much effort they seemed to put in to get the weight down with machining the flanges, it does seem a bit portly. For reference a 240 is 147g. Having such a heavy front hub when the selling point over last gen is weight makes me wonder if they actually know how to optimize hub weight. If dt did a sprag clutch hub would it be significantly lighter? Or do onyx actually have the rear hub dialed and didn't for us as much on the front?
I've probably built 30-40 wheels around onyx hubs. The mechanism used in the rear requires a lot of extra very hard material as well as a few additional bearings. The front hubs are made with a pretty large wall thickness and I believe they have a third breading in the center (this may have been done away with)

If a guy where to copy their bearing lay out and use a more traditional engagement mechanism they would have an indestructible hub with pretty decent weight.
flag Riyadh
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 1:30 Quote
dirtnapped wrote:
4 sets of Hopes, 1 bearing swapped. Wish the freehub was a bit stronger but can’t complain too much

Yes, the aluminium ones suck, but the steel ones are way stronger.
flag Kitejumping
O+
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 5:56 Quote
If I didn't run onyx, hadley would be my next choice, good engagement but not as much extra drag as i9s or kings.
flag theweaz
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 6:42 Quote
Kitejumping wrote:
If I didn't run onyx, hadley would be my next choice, good engagement but not as much extra drag as i9s or kings.

Hydras have significantly less drag than the older i9s, probably a combination of newer seals and only one pawl engaging at a time.

I haven’t had any issues with my hydras but they also haven’t been available for that long so durability is kinda TBD.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 6:53 Quote
Circe wrote:
If we all adhered to the RMR school of thought, we’d all be riding Horst link aluminum bikes with black DT hubs. Sounds boring.

Fine. I'll move to Germany, ride a Liteville with power meter and 18-point DT hubs, and describe everything as "super". Y'all can keep your silly bikes with painted frames and inefficient hubs.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 6:56 Quote
theweaz wrote:
Kitejumping wrote:
If I didn't run onyx, hadley would be my next choice, good engagement but not as much extra drag as i9s or kings.

Hydras have significantly less drag than the older i9s, probably a combination of newer seals and only one pawl engaging at a time.

I haven’t had any issues with my hydras but they also haven’t been available for that long so durability is kinda TBD.
Old I9's really don't have much drag... Can't speak much on the newer ones but I had two sets of the older and neither had drag issues at all unless you over grease the hell out of them.
flag Tsoxbhk
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 6:58 Quote
Circe wrote:
I have broken hub flanges and hub shells and slipped pawls and cracked an axle. Shit happens.

Industry Nine has been exceptional in their customer service, so hats off to them.

I don’t like DT hubs because I prefer better engagement. Simple as that. More engagement, more better.

I would give a pass to something like an Onyx or True Precision hub for weighing 200 g more than DT because it’s dead silent. How cool is that? I’d take Hadley’s, Industry Nine, or profile hubs because that near-instant engagement is addicting.

We’re allowed to like other things. If we all adhered to the RMR school of thought, we’d all be riding Horst link aluminum bikes with black DT hubs. Sounds boring.

Now, can we get back to dreaming about an internally geared hub/gearbox with zero drag and no weight penalty?

Hahah profile! Those hubs are shit. Just like the bmx ones. Every one I have encounter had play. Did they ever figure out how to make a good hub? Last set I built had play and it was the classic I can send you some washers! Jesus.
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 7:03 Quote
Circe wrote:
I don’t like DT hubs because I prefer better engagement. Simple as that. More engagement, more better.
More than the 54t ratchet, 6.6 degree engagement? In real world use the difference between 3 degree I9 and 6.6 degree DT is really not noticeable unless you're riding trials IMO.
flag Tsoxbhk
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 7:04 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Circe wrote:
I don’t like DT hubs because I prefer better engagement. Simple as that. More engagement, more better.
More than the 54t ratchet, 6.6 degree engagement? In real world use the difference between 3 degree I9 and 6.6 degree DT is really not noticeable unless you're riding trials IMO.

This...
flag theweaz
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 7:11 Quote
Hydras are 0.52 degrees now... so 6.6 is 12x as much free play.

In reality yes the difference on trail is almost impossible to perceive.
flag TibZ
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 7:26 Quote
R-M-R wrote:

Fine. I'll move to Germany, ride a Liteville with power meter and 18-point DT hubs, and describe everything as "super". Y'all can keep your silly bikes with painted frames and inefficient hubs.

Nice, come to Freiburg (Black Forest), I will show you around Wink
flag captainbringdown
Mod
Posted: Jun 9, 2020 at 7:26 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Circe wrote:
I don’t like DT hubs because I prefer better engagement. Simple as that. More engagement, more better.
More than the 54t ratchet, 6.6 degree engagement? In real world use the difference between 3 degree I9 and 6.6 degree DT is really not noticeable unless you're riding trials IMO.

Here in the mountains of Minnesota, the engagement is great. I don't know that the 3.6 degree engagement difference would be noticeable to a floridian like yourself BBLB.

I have always love DT, and was hard to move away with the WEO wheelset.

 


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