Wheel building fail. Careful who is lacing your wheels kids.
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- Album
- Forum-Use-Crap
- Category
- Broken Bikes/Parts
- Date Posted
- Mar 8, 2011 at 20:49Mar 8, 2011
- Location
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
- Trail
- Fail Trail
- Riders
- .......
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24 Comments
- 4 1
No, it is completely lazy and shows a lack of understanding and poor attention to detail.
You can use a headset with no bearings and still get your bars to turn, but that doesn't mean it is the proper way of doing things. Just because people get away with it doesn't mean it is done correctly. Look at ANY factory wheel build. Why do you think they are all mirrored?
You can use a headset with no bearings and still get your bars to turn, but that doesn't mean it is the proper way of doing things. Just because people get away with it doesn't mean it is done correctly. Look at ANY factory wheel build. Why do you think they are all mirrored?
- 2 0
Lazy - maybe
Poor attention to detail - sure
I am pretty sure the origina builder did't do any other wheelbuilding voo-doo like being able to see the hub logos through the valve hole in the rim.
But mechanically - it will work just fine, assuming proper tensioning/trueing/stress relieving, which I assume the original builder didn't do.
Poor attention to detail - sure
I am pretty sure the origina builder did't do any other wheelbuilding voo-doo like being able to see the hub logos through the valve hole in the rim.
But mechanically - it will work just fine, assuming proper tensioning/trueing/stress relieving, which I assume the original builder didn't do.
- 2 0
So Reck, what's your background experience with wheelbuilding and can you back this up with any documentation on this? In the case of this build with the hub in question being without disk mounts, what you say would be the proper building technique. More down towards aesthetic reasoning than strength, the effect asymmetrical lacing has on a wheel is extremely minimal.
Now, say this were a rear hub with a disk mount. You'd have to lace the wheel in order to distribute the stress of both braking and drive forces, which requires each force to be transferred by tension to outbound spokes, otherwise causing the wheel to slowly lose tension under normal forces and even twist the rim under load if done completely incorrect. This can only be achieved with an asymmetrical laced wheel.
If you can find Schraner's book anywhere it can explain this thoroughly. I have it somewhere but no scanner.
Now, say this were a rear hub with a disk mount. You'd have to lace the wheel in order to distribute the stress of both braking and drive forces, which requires each force to be transferred by tension to outbound spokes, otherwise causing the wheel to slowly lose tension under normal forces and even twist the rim under load if done completely incorrect. This can only be achieved with an asymmetrical laced wheel.
If you can find Schraner's book anywhere it can explain this thoroughly. I have it somewhere but no scanner.
- 1 0
Two things...
Coming at this from a CERTIFIED mechanics point of view it should be done correctly and unless his lacing method has somehow compensated for it (making the wheel fine) putting the proper measured amount of tension on a wheel that is incorrectly laced the way you say this one is would mean that it wouldn't straighten out when the right tensions are achieved
Coming from a wheelbuilders standpoint its an art you can do it a thousand different ways and no one can say it doesn't work... I've seen guys twist spokes togeather and i have seen guys straight lace wheels that "shouldn't" be straight laced. That said if he is telling customers that he is building a typical "B type" 32 cross 3 wheel and is producing this every time he needs to check his books and figure out where hes going wrong.
Coming at this from a CERTIFIED mechanics point of view it should be done correctly and unless his lacing method has somehow compensated for it (making the wheel fine) putting the proper measured amount of tension on a wheel that is incorrectly laced the way you say this one is would mean that it wouldn't straighten out when the right tensions are achieved
Coming from a wheelbuilders standpoint its an art you can do it a thousand different ways and no one can say it doesn't work... I've seen guys twist spokes togeather and i have seen guys straight lace wheels that "shouldn't" be straight laced. That said if he is telling customers that he is building a typical "B type" 32 cross 3 wheel and is producing this every time he needs to check his books and figure out where hes going wrong.
- 1 0
The head mech at my shop and I just had to re-lace and clean up another pair of his wheels. They were not tensioned correctly either and he also consciously built one of the wheels with spokes that were too long. Tension on that one was far too loose because the nipples were on past the spoke threads and mangling the spokes themselves. After they went through their original stretch, I would not have been able to true/tension them. This was done by a very hack wheel builder. He should 100% be re-trained.
I agree with you Sam that you can get away with different patterns, but unless requested, he shouldn't be lacing them that way.
I agree with you Sam that you can get away with different patterns, but unless requested, he shouldn't be lacing them that way.
- 1 0
I'm sorry Reck but I have to disagree on that,
I'm very confident that spoke head orientation in the hub are insignificant. it's only the lacing method, most wheel I built are like the one in your pic and I can warranty them for life (life of the rim and hub). I had notice that my wheel were different than most factory and I know how to do them "mirrored" but I prefer to use my technique because I find it more efficient.
maybe you haven't cross an odyssey wheel since you start paying attention but if you look at this : www.odysseybmx.com/catalog/complete-wheels/m7-wheel-front-only I think that this M7 wheel can't be wrong
I'm very confident that spoke head orientation in the hub are insignificant. it's only the lacing method, most wheel I built are like the one in your pic and I can warranty them for life (life of the rim and hub). I had notice that my wheel were different than most factory and I know how to do them "mirrored" but I prefer to use my technique because I find it more efficient.
maybe you haven't cross an odyssey wheel since you start paying attention but if you look at this : www.odysseybmx.com/catalog/complete-wheels/m7-wheel-front-only I think that this M7 wheel can't be wrong
- 2 1
We have already proved they don't hold up well. This wheel is so warped that it's having clearance issues side to side..... on a 36!!! 
- 3 0
That comes down to how they evenly they tensioned it when the rim was first getting laced up..... whether or not the spoke heads are on the outside or not is really insignificant.....
- 1 0
Okay, hi recklessness. Sorry to end the debate. But in this wheel the spokes are in the right way, because of the disc side. Because of the forces of braking it is the right way to lace it the other way around. This way of build you show in the picture would be wrong in a 'normal' hub wheel.
I am a bicycle mechanic and I can simple tell you that there are rules to lace a wheel, and exceptions to some of the rules when other things come to play. Like a disc hub.
Enjoy your wheel :-)
I am a bicycle mechanic and I can simple tell you that there are rules to lace a wheel, and exceptions to some of the rules when other things come to play. Like a disc hub.
Enjoy your wheel :-)
- 3 1
But the problem is that when you lace a wheel like this, it lack torsional rigidity. So, it's fine with impacts that the wheel hits directly, but when you spin and put torsional side-type impacts on them from the side that isn't laced correctly, the spokes on the trouble side allow the rim to flex more side to side those spokes loosen easier and thusly puts it out of true. That is exactly what happened to this wheel. Furthermore, every factory wheel build I have looked at since this was brought up is mirrored. I would assume there is a good reason for that consistency.
- 1 0
if you run pegs or use your fork for grinds its ok i use to lace my bmx wheels like that and had no issues but now i only grind on my pedals on my 26
- 2 1
Just because some people can get away with it doesn't make it right. This was built by a shop employee (both shop and employee will remain nameless, so don't ask kids) who regularly builds wheels for customers. Unless people are asking for it this way, he should learn to lace wheels properly.
However if the wheel was not trued, tensioned and stress relieved correctly then it will warp and ultimately fail - no matter the lacing method.