Karakoram77

I'm very much inclined to agree with most of what you wrote. All fair points. I think the most important thing to remember here is that only the naive among purchasers expect vendors to deal in absolutes - and only the naive among vendors do so. Professionals in any field - be it law, medicine, the military, science, financial services - deal in probabilities rather than in certainties. DT Swiss is a truly professional, engineering-based company (as someone with years of high-level tech and fitting experience in the golf industry before cycling, Pivot’s Phoenix-based neighbours at PING come to mind for me as an appropriate analogy). DT Swiss will tell you where these rims fall in the ASTM classification hierarchy, and on the whole their rims are loyal to the scheme in my experience as a wheelbuilder and rider. More riders should be aware of exactly what this hierarchy entails - it's basically a way of ranking rim durability by suggested application, using technical-based standards for stress thresholds - and then plan to diligently observe its recommendations whenever possible. One person or OEM’s enduro-classed rim (ASTM 4) could be another person's hoped-for downhill/freeride rim (ASTM 5). However, this is not to say that Dan did not loyally follow DT's usage guidelines, which he may well have in this thoughtful and systematic wheel review. Ultimately the only DT rim I would feel comfortable unleashing in the wild without virtually any reservations, be it as part of a client's custom wheelbuild or on my personal ride, is the FR560 - and even then with CushCore installed at least in the rear. A number of industry insiders specializing in wheels view the FR series rims as the hoops to end all hoops in terms of all-out strength. Incidentally, the FR560 is classed at ASTM 5 and is all-aluminum. And FR, of course, stands for "Freeride." Also noteworthy here, as you and others have indicated, is the professionalism with which DT has handled this review. Textbook, really, and they seem to be sincerely focused on applying any lessons learned toward future product development. It's a treat to hear a marketing manager speak with an engineer's technical grasp but a PR person’s business savvy. In the end, an episode like this only strengthens my faith in the DT brand.

@sherbet: Well put, and the passion, commitment, and professionalism that you bring to your own shop is clearly evident. Sincere kudos. But - and I think many of us here can attest to this - we need more consistency from shops. If this news is the new normal, there has to be a collective effort from bike shops to take this gesture and really run with it. Better product, more creative product, and responsible labour prices. As a skilled mechanic, I have worked at shops with widely varying labour rates often loosely tied to nuts-and-bolts factors like rent, overhead, and margins; at one very local shop it virtually came down to management’s questionable say-so. At the better shops the view was that margin is made on parts; labour is the minimum to respect the business but more importantly respect the customer; and more complete bike sales were to receive our fullest energies always. But most of all: customer service constantly matters. It’s a lifeblood, as you so correctly say. It’s entirely and exclusively unacceptable to walk into a bike shop and meet a surly mechanic or indifferent sales staff. We’re professionals and must always act like professionals. Refuse to make eye contact with a patient or a bank client or fitness client and you’re looking for work fast. The traditional industry ought to take this assist for the “It’s a Wonderful Life” moment that it is - wake up now and collectively be grateful and even better. Even more passionate and committed. Police itself, led by the leading shops, to an even higher standard of service and expertise, and take a holistic, sharing approach with other players in the local scene (on parts, tools, time, whatever) to the benefit of everyone, but firstly to the benefit of the buyer. Each time we sell we represent an entire industry - an awesome responsibility. I worked as a master technician in the golf industry in Canada beforehand, and painfully witnessed what can happen when service and cultural attitudes - not to mention pricing - become obtuse. The industry made itself shrunken and irrelevent. It hasn’t recovered from its mid-2000s halcyon days. This is a reprieve for cycling because it should never go the same tragic way. It’s an awesome sport and a respectable career with lots of terrific people. It will be fascinating to see if Shimano can withstand the reaction to the news. Lots of great comments in this forum so far. Keep the discussion going.

Happy to ride with you here in Toronto! Give me a shout.

@ReformedRoadie: Thanks for classing over the ignorance above - and with a correct accent, too. I’m dead certain that Yoann could teach us all about being a nice dude and chill riding companion. Can’t see Loic being a jerk either! The flippant should go to Normandy or parts of rural Quebec, among other places. Then they might understand warmth and hospitality.

@djbuilder: Perfectly explained - a strong quick explanation of what fork offset (essentially what amounts to trail) does to handling. On bikes that have a sufficient reach - and occasionally even on those that don’t - and certainly on slacked-out bikes, less offset makes for a more controlled dynamic ride. I would always spec a mountain bike and definitely an enduro bike for the high-speed turns and berms over straightaway stability; a bike goes dead straight on most trails far less than it moves and dynamically reacts to rider-induced trail inputs. For what’s it’s worth, Bike Radar did a piece with Chris Porter of Mojo Suspension in Wales, in 2015. Mojo is a major Fox tuning facility in Britain. At the end of the test, it was revealed that Porter himself uses a shockingly short, 30 mm offset fork. Just 30 mm! Undoubtedly his DH bike is long AF and quite carefully angled, but if this doesn’t make the point about less offset and more trail and the benefits for many I don’t know what could. Great read. I highly recommend checking it out. A Google search will turn it up.

+1. Agreed. Pretty easy to exceed the structural bounds of a component subjected to that much torque and stress that won’t give a little. Even that earlier review photo from last week of the Lyrik with heebie jeebies - looks to me like a rugged part doing its part under load. I think generally the 34 punches above it’s weight. @mnorris122:

150 Pike

Been running the OneUp since last June - sturdier than Julia Childs in the kitchen (or at the Rose Bowl). Proud to report that it has survived a lot of hard riding including an accidental front-flip crash. Works flawlessly. Not the slightest hint of squish. All I do is add a bit of Whistler Fork Boost every so often and she keeps on cookin’.

Well said

Correction - why the articles are a worst of the worst. My mistake. I read the original pieces and found them more than respectable.