Hafjell to remain open for 2014

Feb 8, 2014
by Fraktiv  
We're pleased to report that the owners of Hafjell Bike Park have decided to keep the park open for another year and have thrown down the gauntlet to mountain bikers around the world to use the park more to ensure its future past the 2014 season.

The sun has dipped on Hafjell after a great start to the week. It s feeling Autumnal and snow may even be on the way in the next few days.

With businesses around the world feeling the pinch of the economic downturn, it's not surprising that companies like Alpinco are looking at where they can make savings to ensure survival. Unlike the winter season, operating a summer season facility is more often than not going to be speculative in the short term, and it's reasonable that Alpinco have set the challenge to riders to use the park more so that it becomes a profitable, and therefore worthwhile investment.

Hafjell has managed to deliver one of the best bike parks in Europe and is without a shadow of a doubt, the best bike park in Norway. With the rumours of its closure all over Facebook and Twitter, the interest in saving the Park has rallied the global mountain biking community who have been vocal in expressing their love for the park and their disappointment at the news that it might be closed for good this year.

bigquotes"Visitor numbers have unfortunately not been responding to the costs. The visitor number must increase for the cost of the operation to be covered. The number of guests will ultimately determine the project's future" - Thorvald Sverdrup, Chairman of Alpinco.

According to the press release by Alpinco, winter season users of the park will not be subsidising the running costs for the summer season. This is truly going to be a test to see whether a mountain bike park as respected and loved around the world as Hafjell can return a profit or at least a balanced book.

bigquotes"Hafjell challenges the bike scene - use the facility more - it is the only way to ensure the future of it. A notable increase in guests during the summer 2014 is necessary to form a foundation for continued operation in 2015" - Odd Stensrud, General Manager, Hafjell Alpincenter.

With the UCI Downhill World Championships arriving in September, the park is scheduled to open on 14th June (weekends only), and then daily from 5th July to 3rd August, returning to weekends only until 7th September. The Park will have extended opening hours during the UCI World Championships in September.

photo


Author Info:
fraktiv avatar

Member since May 14, 2008
227 articles

119 Comments
  • 99 14
 Not sure if this is a success for us, or a very clever marketing campaign....
  • 17 23
flag Hammm (Feb 8, 2014 at 4:31) (Below Threshold)
 I am beginning to think it might be a "very clever marketing campaign…."
  • 70 6
 How is it a clever marketing strategy? If people don't visit it can't afford to stay open.
It's up to us bikers. Sticking your name on a Facebook page isn't going to pay the bills. It may have granted the park a reprieve for 2014 but that's it.
If you want to keep great bike parks get your buddies fill a car and go have an adventure!
  • 18 5
 I think the point jamieridesbikes is making is that we don't really have any way of knowing whether the bike park really is in that bad a situation. It "could" be a clever marketing strategy in that it's effectively guilt tripping people in to going. I'd like to go but Norway is super expensive compared to doing the Alps or similar (at least it was when i looked a few years back). I'm sure a lot of people feel the same but when they know (think) they're contributing to helping the park stay open as well as have an awesome trip, they're more likely to choose Hafjell over somewhere else i.e. clever marketing strategy.


IT'S A CONSPIRACY!..... maybe
  • 18 0
 You could be right, either way though unless it gets enough visitors or the summer period is subsidised it won't stay open very long. Sad truth is that no matter how cool it is it has to make a profit
  • 3 1
 I don't doubt that it's in financial difficulty, but it's got a lot of attention recently and people will be more inclined to ride there Which is obviously a good thing
  • 10 0
 c'mon guys, really?? now you think about that, we got what we wanted, and I think it´s awesome, we must now try to go on and help out.
  • 5 0
 I'm not saying people shouldn't go. I was simply explaining to randybadger how it "COULD" be a marketing strategy. If people don't think this type of thing happens all the time, then they're kidding themselves. It'd be nice to think that it doesn't effect our nice little world of mountain bikes but at the end of the day, it's still a business.
  • 5 28
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 8, 2014 at 6:34) (Below Threshold)
 Yes el nombre, it COULD be so, you COULD be right, just like Jamieridesbikes COULD be a shameless twat but no one can be certain of it.
  • 12 32
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 8, 2014 at 6:47) (Below Threshold)
 I like his deduction - I wonder if more tourists came to New Orleans after Cathrina made it famous. I've been asked once if Poles keep Aushwitz as a museum to attract tourism. Pardon me but this is the same logic
  • 12 0
 You're taking what I said far to seriously. nothing bad has happened to hafjel, only the threat of closure. When something valuable is about to close because it doesn't see enough use, people realise that they should probably visit it more often Stop trying to be controversial by bringing up completely unrelated disasters
  • 9 1
 Waki, you are suggesting the same type of situation (profiting off a "loss"), but we have pretty strong evidence in the Hurricane Katrina case that New Orleans did not plan that as a marketing stunt to attract visitors to the city. Anyone who saw photos or visited within a few years after the storm saw plenty of real destruction of the city. Same thing with Auschwitz. With Alpineco, they haven't shown us any evidence of their claims. The bike park will most likely be in the same condition as normal, and they haven't shown us any actually financial info to verify their claims.
  • 18 1
 WAKI Design, your immense self regard is misplaced. You reason and analogize poorly. Auschwitz (note the correct spelling, seeing how you're such a pedantic ass yourself) happened. No doubt except in Ahmadinejad's mind. Katrina happened. No doubt in anyone's mind. What el nombre and jamieridesbikes are suggesting might possibly be the case, is that in fact the bike park is NOT in the dire straights it claims, and that by saying they will close and rousing the predictable public outcry, they might have drummed up extra business by playing on people's loyalties and emotions. Can you understand that, WAKI? Intelligent people can posit a hypothetical, they can play with ideas, without claiming something is absolutely true, or, for that matter, even likely. And given how businesses have no shame in their advertising ploys, there's nothing wrong with merely wondering if something like this might be a clever ruse. Get it?
  • 2 2
 No, this is not on topic or anything, however reading Waki's analogy of the museum at (pauses to consider spelling and decides to go for my badly remembered bastardized version of the Polish word on the map I had twenty years ago) "Oswiezchim" or something similar and drawing in tourists reminds me of my visit there in the summer of 1990 just after the wall came down. There was only me and an Aussie guy who was on the bus out to town from Krakov. Everyone should go if they have the chance. The toothbrushes. The glasses. The suitcases. An endless glass case contained the toothbrushes, tens of metres long, metres deep. It wan't even a case, it was a room with one wall replaced with glass. It was like looking at a multicoloured beach only each grain of sand was a toothbrush. I don't know if it has been "consumerized" over the past two decades or not, however, it was pretty goddam powerful then.
  • 2 1
 get ur shit straight hafjell here in msa they are always running below costs during summer
  • 3 0
 Sad news for us in the uk is no direct ferry. A service from Newcastle to Bergen is planned but won't be in place this summer. So sadly for us Brits it's a plane, or two ferries or a very long interesting drive
  • 1 1
 This is a discussion between the bike park owners, and the people that owns the whole system. The owners of the bike park are trying to have Hafjell bike park open all the time, but Alpinco is all about the money and trying to make the season ass small ass possibole. If people don't come, there will not bee a Hafjell bikepark in 2015. Sorry dude, but I really thought that people understood that bikepeople are bikepeople and not golddiggers...
  • 3 13
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 8, 2014 at 9:22) (Below Threshold)
 I can't believe it, I just can't believe it... how about some of you people stop getting so unnecessarily overexcited about stuff you have no idea about. Accusing Hafjell of trying to capitlize on that is just... retarded.
  • 2 0
 I think most of us understand. But some people see conspiracy and deception everywhere. I would love to come but without the Newcastle Bergen ferry which we might or might not have by 2015 it's going to be difficult for us Brits.
  • 2 0
 FYI I don't actually think its a publicity stunt to get more money. I was just bringing up an idea
  • 3 4
 the proof that they are not doing well is that you have never been there.
  • 2 0
 @guigui333: and if you pay attention to the trails conditions of MSA, you realize they are not putting any money in the trails either. To have great trails, like Hafjell, you need to invest money. At the end of the day, running a bike park is a business.
  • 9 0
 It's all well and good telling others not to get overexcited, Waki, but you're the one that introduced genocide and natural disasters to a discussion about a friggin' bike park.
  • 1 0
 pieters, plenty of people haven't been to Whistler. You can't say whoever runs the park there is not doing well.
  • 1 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 8, 2014 at 11:43) (Below Threshold)
 Jops, I thought that animal rights, cat memes and gay at olimpics are the touchy subjects... I didn't realize, I apologize
  • 8 1
 WAKI, you can't believe it because you're not terribly bright, which you've demonstrated enumerable times, and which has been confirmed by the enumerable negative votes 99% of your comments get. And you talk about touchy after getting hysterical when someone simply floated an idea.
  • 6 0
 Man for the past few weeks I thought Waki had stopped with his stupid comments, guess not.
  • 1 1
 trails are ok there is plenty of potential to be better but hey they are running a ski resort during summer(msa)
  • 30 3
 Pink bikers bitch if they're being marketed to. Pink bikers bitch if they've got no place to ride. Pink bikers bitch if something mentions 27.5 Pink bikers bitch if the sport stays too small. Pink bikers bitch if the sport gets too big. Pink bikers bitch if somethings too expensive Pink bikers bitch if someone get sponsored by the wrong team Pink bikers are bitches..
  • 1 0
 Are you saying Pink Bikers are Bitchy? LOL
  • 12 1
 And Pink bikers bitch about Pink Bikers bitching!
  • 4 1
 Certainly not enough of them do.
  • 10 0
 Bitch-ception...
  • 1 0
 PBers span the entire globe- of course we're going to disagree with things and each other on occasion. It would be a pretty dull website if everyone thought the same.
  • 2 0
 Yeah, but if everyone agreed with me, we'd all be right
  • 26 3
 They suffer from the fact that it's just an expensive place to be a tourist. You can go ride the alps for less with more variety. Do they really expect us to give them a 'pity ride' like some fat girl in a nightclub?
  • 29 1
 Next trail I build, I'm naming Fat Girl.
  • 2 1
 Going to be a flow trail?
  • 12 0
 Probably going to be more chunky then flow
  • 5 0
 Not many roots then?
  • 1 0
 It will be one you can do with your eyes closed and then hope your friends don't find out that you rode it.
  • 10 0
 That is a pretty short season. Is that due to the weather there? If they can realistically only be open for less than 3 months them I can understand why the owners would be pushing to get more people to come. That's not a lot of time to make up the cost that goes into building and maintaining the place. Compared to whistler which is open mid may into October. Here on the east coast of the US the parks are open for 6 months.
  • 4 0
 No, it´s not because of the weather. It could easily be open in the same period as whistler, but it ain´t whistler. Last year it was a lot more open too, it´s probably because they don´t have the money..... Frown
  • 2 0
 Exactly what I was thinking, thats a really really short season.
  • 12 0
 Should organise a pinkbike session at hafjell, that'd get the numbers up.
  • 1 0
 Yup!! Thats a realy good idea!
  • 3 0
 That's a good idea. That's what they should do. Get in touch with the community, make events make people visit the park because things are happening there. Instead they go: I you don't come, we close the place down. Which really sucks. People shouldn't go there because they're threatened to, but because they want to, because it's attractive. I would have liked to see the commersial-agent for Ferrari go: If you don't buy this car, we won't make it any more.

Ok, Norway's expensive, but if you have a tent you can stay for free. In the bike park, right next to the uplift, with free internet, free bbq, free showers, free bike wash and free toilet facilities. That's a lot cheaper than a hotel. Anywhere!
  • 2 0
 Megatryn!! Now i wanna go to Norway with my tent!!!
  • 2 0
 The problem comes with the bike companies/industry's price tag. A rideable mountain bike at a park like this is too expensive for the average person to buy. The cost needs to go down dramatically for places like this all over the world to survive.
  • 3 0
 Might just get over there sometime this summer. There's nothing comparable around here, really, and it's not too far from Uppsala where I study. Feel like this is a cause worth supporting, or at least I hope so.
  • 2 0
 Dfds shipping sail from immingham to breven takes a day or so but the do take passengers on the cargo boats

DFDS Seaways freight ferry shipping route

Brevik - Immingham

On this route there are two sailings per week in both directions.

The cargo mix on this route includes trailers, lorries – with/without drivers, containers, machinery, trucks and cars. In particular great experiences in handling new cars.

From Immingham (on Central England’s east coast) there is immediate access to M62 heading to main big industrial cities in England and Scotland and from Brevik located on the entry to Oslo Fjord – there is immediate access to major Norwegian industries with easy access to the motorway to Kristiansand and Oslo.

Schedules

Brevik - Immingham v.v.

Departure
from Brevik Arrival
at Immingham Departure
from Immingham Arrival
at Brevik
Monday 18:00 Wednesday 22:00 Sunday 05:00 Monday 08:00
Friday 03:00 Saturday 04:00 Wednesday 05:00 Thursday 22:00
Note:
DFDS Seaways reserves the right to make changes in the above schedule.
Local times are used for all departures and arrivals
Closing time is prior to sailing time

Passengers on freight vessels

Enquiries for passenger transport on this route should be direct to Brevik (Tel: +47 2212 2091 Monday - Friday between 10:00-11:00 / email paxbookings.got@dfds.com) or Immingham (Tel: +44 1469 55 26 98 / Email: imm-norbookings@dfds.com ).

Driver

Facilities on board
Our freight vessels offer a comfortable, relaxing means of transportation without the discos, bars and live entertainment. Accommodation in shared double cabin usually with shower and toilet. All cabins are en suite and breakfast, lunch and dinner are served at set times with cold food, tea and coffee facilities available in the canteen/TV lounge.

Hazardous cargo
  • 5 0
 Jesus, I'd rather eat my own faeces than go to Grimsby...
  • 1 0
 Cleethorpes FTW
  • 5 0
 So it's up to us euros to get off our asses and visit. Do it!!!!
  • 2 0
 Hard for you guys out ''east'' to lose what seems a great place to ride... but if I have the money i'll got out west= Whistler. Hope for you it will continue to operate for a couple of years.
  • 5 1
 now can they stop charging rofl prices for everything (mainly beer) and im convinced..
  • 4 2
 haha that never gonna happen.. It's a shame everything is so expensive in Norway.. The only thing that keeps us Swedes from going there more often! Love the Nature and terrain in Norway, extremly beautiful!
  • 5 6
 so you´re not going out riding because of expensive alcohol?...

You guys needs to get order in your priorities.....
  • 7 2
 EVERYTHING.. includes food, liftpass, somewhere to stay..
  • 3 8
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 8, 2014 at 6:42) (Below Threshold)
 Alex... As if booze was cheap in Sweden. Food? Accomodation in Hafjell is so great and cheap that you can just hit Willis or Netto and cook everything on place...
  • 2 1
 Haha everbody just chill out! never said anything about booze! And never meant to talk bad about Hafjell, I admit it may sounded like that, but i love Norway! PEACE haha
  • 2 1
 @Alex: The bikepark pass is not that expensive, in fact the prices are lower compared to Åre Bikepark. That goes for apartment rental as well.

If you bring your own food, you won't notice any higher prices.
  • 2 5
 Hetsa hetsa hetsa...
  • 1 0
 You from Sweden WAKI?
  • 1 0
 @e-beth: förra sommaren betala jag dock bara 1100 kr med frukost för 4 nätter i Åre, vill inte verka negativ på något sätt men Norge är dyrt, och det gäller nästan allt. Du får en vecka i alperna när du ska åka skidor för samma pris som 4 nätter i hemsedal om man ska jämnföra något. Sen kan Bikeparken i Hafjell dock ha bra priser men jag syftade på resten av Norge, det gäller att ha med snusen om man säger så för att slippa betala 80 kr för en dosa. Måste dock poängtera att jag gillar verkligen Norge så att jag inte anses som en hater här. Norge är ett otroligt vackert land och självklart ska Hafjell vara öppet, åker jag inte dit för att cykla så är jag garanterat där för DH WC Smile
  • 2 0
 bringing your own food / beer isnt really an option for those of us who need to fly, as that also comes under weight restriction and becomes expensive on that front
  • 1 3
 There is a supermarket 200m from the lift where things aren't maybe cheap as in Tesco but they are still cheaper to buy and make food from in one of the cottaged than eating out. In fact I find tourist spots in north Italy more expensive than the already expensive Sweden
  • 4 0
 @georgy291 : Not an option for you maybe (bringing own food), but I get a little sad when people from Sweden complain so much about it. The border isn't that far away, and we have many stores on the Swedish side. Ski resorts are often expensive. Åre is also more expensive than normal, and that counts for a lot of ski/bike resorts in the alps.

Hafjell isn't that far off for us in the southern parts of Sweden. But people travel twice the distance to Åre and Sälen(!). Mad.

Comparing a totally different skiresort in Norway (Hemsedal) to Hafjell is also weird. We are discussing the prices in Hafjell and the cost for cottage rental is not expensive! Maybe if you travel alone, but not if you share a big eight-bed one with your friends it will actually be very good. Normally I'm paying approx. 1600 DKK (~ 200 eur) friday to sunday for that. Split on 6 to 8 people the money is no excuse.
The standard is also so much better than the rest of europe since thay have sauna, washing machine, dish washer and free wi-fi.


@AlexGustavsson Det är lugnt. Men jag blir lite irriterad att du anklagar just Hafjell för att vara megadyrt. Det är det verkligen inte.
Enligt din profil är du också från Göteborg, och då har vi 50 mil till Hafjell och 90 till Åre. Liftkorten är billigare i Hafjell, och fyller du en hytta så vill jag påstå att det också är billigare.
Mat kan du handla i Nordby eller Uddevalla (eller hemma) Smile
Åker du flera helger + VM så kan du ju även köpa säsongspass! Bara ett litet tips Wink
  • 1 0
 @e-beth Ja du har nog rätt, lät lite fel!
  • 2 0
 Ok, Norway's expensive, but if you have a tent (or camper van/RV/etc.) you can stay for free. In the bike park, right next to the uplift, with free internet, free bbq, free showers, free bike wash and free toilet facilities. That's a lot cheaper than a hotel. Anywhere!
  • 1 0
 Alex - this is Örgryte-Lunden!
  • 3 0
 Did not know that megatryn! very good idea! will absolutly think about that this summer! Smile
  • 2 1
 Bottom line is money talks....its an expensive hobby and its expensive going to places like this....sad truth is I wont ever be able to afford going to a place like this and neither will any of my biking buddies, were a small group granted but my point is, this place will close because not enough people have cash to through about on a hobby. Such a shame.
  • 1 0
 already looked to go in norway to ride for 1 week, for that price i could book almost 3 weeks in whistler. Not saying that it should close or anything but the only people able to help this bike park is people living close to it mostly. I do know that it require quite a lot of money just to pay the electricity bills for the lift, dunno how much cost the electricity in norway but if everything is overpriced, i bet energy is overpriced too and it probably dont help the situation.
  • 2 0
 I just wish I could visit there, anyone in Norway who hasn't visited seriously needs to step up their game and get down there.
  • 2 0
 Do it, get your mates jump on a ferry and go.
  • 2 0
 As I have recently discovered there is currently no direct ferry Frown
  • 7 0
 if i start riding right now and head due north i should be there by summer.....come on polar ice cap don't fail me now!
  • 1 0
 Hey listen. It's a business and it has costs to cover to stay in business. That's obvious. The fact that the park is dead in the summer is baffling. Bottom line is if they close your park you won't get it back.
  • 3 0
 Yeah! Big Grin This is a sign from whatever, gonna buy a new bike now!
  • 1 0
 What kind
  • 1 0
 YT-industries Wicked or Nukeproof Mega AM... I think.
  • 2 0
 I think the big challenge is that is in Norway and that mean is expensive as f*ck! Big Grin
  • 1 0
 www.pinkbike.com/news/The-end-of-Hafjell-Bike-Park-2014.html

All those people saying they would go better follow through.
  • 2 0
 Anyone got any info on where to stay etc, would love to go but doesn't seem easy to find helpful information on things...
  • 2 0
 I've been there and it was the hardest holiday to find stuff out, and book. We went 2 years ago, and this is correct as of then. The best flights with the best bike weight allowance is Norwegian Airlines. You can book a return transfer from Oslo to Hafjell for you and your bikes with Norwegian Wood Travel Ltd. The easiest and cheapest way to book accommodation is Booking.com - we stayed at Alpin Apartments Solsiden which are great and ride in/out located on the bottom trail. You need to self cater as restaurants are expensive. Booze is really expensive, so take your full allowance in your suitcase - we took a 3litre box of wine and 3(?) 660ml bottles of 4.6% Birra Moretti each, as it's the closest to the maximum alcohol% you are allowed - 5% beer is heavily import taxed. It is also one of, if not the best places we have ridden (inc. Morzine, Are, Chamonix, Pila, Finale Ligure, Les2Alpes, Fort Bill). Every jump/tabletop is perfect. There is nowhere busy at night so maybe try to go when a World Cup is on. You will not regret going, lovely place, lovely people, fantastic riding.
  • 2 0
 Thanks
  • 1 0
 Check this one out: nhu.dk
Only winter season prices at the moment though (expensive), but normally the best around.Smile

You could also sleep in a caravan, motorhome or in tent. Lockers and showers are for free in the area (wifi too).
  • 2 0
 We met some mad Latvians who slept in their car in a carpark - at the end of the night they said lets pool our money to buy a bottle of vodka, and come back to our car for a party!
  • 2 0
 Just checked, and we didn't fly Norwegian, we flew SAS from Heathrow - better bike weight allowance. Norwegian Wood Travel can actually book the whole package for you, but you obviously pay for that - upside is they also own Woody's which is the busiest bar and they give you discount. Their normal price for a pint was about £7 while we were there which was probably the cheapest in town anyway.
  • 2 0
 And you can buy alcohol in the supermarkets, from memory beer worked out equivalent to about £3-4 pint. All in self-catering on a budget, a weeks holiday didn't end up being much different to anywhere else in europe where you might eat/drink out a bit more.
  • 2 0
 Albert Einstein: "two things are infinite. The universe an human stupidy. ...and I'm not so sure about the universe."
  • 1 0
 told you in the fitrst article. Kind od PR trick. Ill be there, but i buy my drugs and food in Swedala. And two weeks training in Åre Bike Park of course.
  • 1 0
 Balanced book in summer should be fine knowing that many riders will come back in winter time with snowboard and skis.
  • 3 1
 Right on!! If I win the lotto this year I'll be there!!
  • 3 0
 "ride here, or else"
  • 2 0
 yeah pinkbike, do something there, it would be rad!
  • 1 0
 If they charged for the winter, it would help for the summer. Sounds like they can't be arsed.
  • 1 0
 They specifically said that the winter income will not pay for the summer :/
  • 1 0
 I know, but if they did, instead of taking a profit from the winter, it would help subsidise the summer activities and keep it open.
  • 2 0
 but it doesn't make financial sense for them to do that. they are a buisness, not a public service. i want to go next year as i've already booked my flights to morzine for this year.
i found it rather odd that the vast majority (not me) were putting the track down before the first dhwc round was held there, where as now they are all in awe and waxing lyirical about the place
  • 2 0
 if only it wasn't 4,824 miles away......
  • 3 4
 What PB could've done on this article would be to include accommodation details of places nearby, how far from airport, transfer details, how to get there and to generally make it easier for people to decide to go.
  • 9 0
 what pinkbike could've done... no wait, its on the website hafjellbikepark.com
do we need to be spoon fed everything?
  • 3 0
 This is not some kind of commercial but if you are going to Hafjell you should go somewhere like this: aasletten.no

I was staying at that "hotel" last year during the world cup. The owner is nice, the bikes are locked away in the night and you can make your own food in their kitchen. On top of that you have to ride your bike less than 150 meters before standing at the bottom of the lift and they also offer free wifi. Great place and fair prices.

Everybody should go to Hafjell and help save one of the best bikeparks in Europe!
  • 1 0
 Matt5311: that website is a PITA to use and you won't find a transfer. See my response to GloryBoy below
  • 1 0
 Where did you keep your bikes when you went please?

Got a really good price on a cabin but they said the ski shed isn't big enough for 8+ bikes Frown
  • 2 0
 The Solsiden apartments came with a garage lock-up for our sole use which was big enough for 20 bikes. The ski cupboard associated with our apartment would've only taken two bikes max.
  • 1 0
 If I lived near hafjell I would ride that park ALL THE TIME! Too bad I live in Idaho
  • 1 0
 Bottom line is Norway itself just is crazy expensive. Its isn't the park per se
  • 1 0
 told you in the fitrst article. Ill be there, but i buy my drugs and food in Swedala Big Grin
  • 1 0
 FUCK YEAH!! apearently there IS a god!!
  • 1 0
 I will be there all season!
  • 1 0
 i might go visit, but how the f*ck do u get there??
  • 2 0
 See my response to GloryBoy above
  • 1 0
 sport wins!
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