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Catch22 briceshirbach's article
Apr 22, 2021 at 20:51
Apr 22, 2021
Local Flavours: The Complete Guide to Riding in Park City, UT
FFS, when I saw the title there was one trail I was crossing my fingers wouldn't get outed and it gets stuck right there in the best trails to ride. I miss the days of the entrance to BF being nearly invisible and inconvenient to access. It's gotten loved to death the past couple seasons.
Catch22 brianpark's article
Dec 28, 2020 at 12:04
Dec 28, 2020
Video: Dylan Stark's 2020 Mixtape is Wild
Man, Dylan's year end edits the last few years have been amazing. Definitely worth checking out if you haven't seen them. Great YouTube channel as well. So much skill on the bikes, super unique style and diverse riding.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 12:25
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
@TheOriginalTwoTone: except it's not that basic at all, that's just pinkbike's summary. The actual patent is linked to the article on bicycle retailer and in the comments here.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 9:47
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
@TimnberG: I get where you are coming from but it is the reality of design and engineering for bike brands. It doesn't seem super novel from the outside but for Knolly it's a very important design feature that they have stuck with for 17+ years across every model in their line. Given that most companies change nearly everything with their frames every 3-5 years, it is telling they haven't wavered from that design despite quite a lot of criticism over the years for it.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 9:43
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
@DAN-ROCKS: The patent on VPP, which SC purchased from Outland, expired years ago. I believe they may still have some legal rights to the name "VPP" but not the design. This litigation has nothing to do with the look of the bikes and little to do with the suspension design.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 9:30
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
@bman33: Except the origins of their design predate modern dropper posts by several years, as do the origins of this patent. The actual patent documents show all the related provisional and continued application data going back to 2003-2004. At that point the original Gravity Dropper had just hit the market and it didn't have any need for a long seat tube (and everyone thought it was a total gimmick as well.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 8:49
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
Very few other brands are using a full length, straight seat tube that would meet the requirements of the patent. If they are, they likely properly reached a licensing agreement with Knolly or they could be subject to the same situation Intense has put themselves in. This kind of stuff is incredibly common in the bike industry and consideration of patents and licensing are an aspect of any company's design process. Despite what the deep thinkers of the comments section may say, it's not some unheard of, unethical, or unexpected thing. It's definitely vastly different than something like Specialized suing small bike shops for usage of common cycling terms. People are so burned out on those kind of lawsuits that sentiment towards anything involving lawyers automatically generates 100 "bro, they've lost all their street cred" comments.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:57
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
@swenzowski: It's linked in the Bicycle Retailer article https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=10363988&IDKey=501BF8014589%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D10%2C363%2C988.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F10%2C363%2C988%2526RS%3DPN%2F10%2C363%2C988
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:18
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
@Paulsen801: Yup, was a vital piece of their designs going back to the V-Tach in 2003 and they've stuck with it ever since then.
Catch22 jamessmurthwaite's article
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:13
Dec 15, 2020
Knolly Bikes Suing Intense for Alleged Patent Infringement
While I'm not big on litigation, I can't Fault Knolly for this one. They've been using this design since their VTach frames back in 2003-2004 and applied for the patent over 6 years ago. Apart from the 4x4 suspension design (which isn't in question here though some people seem to be missing that), the ultra slack and offset seatube design was possibly their most unique and important design feature that has stuck around from day one. They took a ton of flack for the look of it over the years but it was vital back in the days before dropper posts. Knolly wanted to be able to run full length seatposts on longer travel frames so you had a decent seatpost available for pedaling but would allow for the saddle to move forward and out of the way when lowered for the downs. For their early trail bikes they had to make huge accommodations for this design as it required welding a little nub of a post above the BB to allow for use of front derailleurs (remember those things?), That same design logic is equally important now with long travel dropper posts that need more straight length in the seat tube. I'd say good on Knolly for having the foresight to protect such a unique design that they've been using for 17+ years. It's not like engineers don't have access to existing patents when designing new frames, if Intense tried to skirt a patent without making proper arrangements with Knolly they were quite literally asking for this. If Knolly doesn't enforce it sets a precedence for everyone to do the same.
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