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DF-350 Suspension Movement
I have been getting a lot of questions as to how the linkage work and moves. Hopefully this helps to clarify things for everyone.
Main things to note in the movement of the suspension (for the purpose of this video) is that the wheel path is rearward biased, and that the wheel link stays mostly level throughout its travel.
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Video info
- Date Posted
- Mar 29, 2012 at 19:37Mar 29, 2012
- Category
- Edge Factor: R2 - Reality Redesigned
- Location
-
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
34 Comments
- + 1
OswestSte
(Apr 10, 2012 at 12:19)
Props for this frame design crazy-canuck, you've intergraded bits from other awsome bikes ( Shock and lower linkage and chain idler pulley positions similar to Canfield Jedi ) and ( seat stay curved like a Wilson ) ( top tube looks a little like a newer V10 or Nomad ). but the cleaver bits you've come up with like the 'four position top shock mount' and th clever rear linkge and bearinged dropouts are GREAT, If you could refine the downtube to CNC,ed lower half interface so they flow better this would be a AWSOME frame ! With all the things you've tied together on this frame other manufactures should watch out. Love the Geo, colour all the ideas blended into this frame. YOU GOT MY VOTE.
- + 1
if your interested in rendering this bad boy, i recommend you take a look at a program called Keyshot. I dont know if you've ever heard of it but it's freaking amazing. you can render any material from carbon fiber to ceramics. I really suggest you take a look at it and download a free trial. I use it for my design class and i couldn't be more pleased with the results
I really like the design and i beat that rear end would be super stiff with that extra support bar on it- + 1
I would move the upper pivot lower, that much of a rearward axle path in my opinion isnt going to feel nice in corners as others have been saying too.
- + 1
I was aware of that in designing this, which is why it is not any higher. I would prototype it first before moving it lower though.
- + 1
my experience is off riding a balfa bb7, its really nice, but it has its advantages(chunder bombing) and disadvantages(corner exit speed). You're pivot almost looks higher than a bb7s, and further back too.
- + 1
This should be a bit more balanced than the BB7 in that sense and does not have as rearward a wheel path, and has a much more progressive leverage ratio in the hopes of giving it a livelier feel.
Just uploaded some graphs just for you
Check'em out:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7959633
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7959626
(Compared them to the 2010 Giant Glory to show that my leverage ratio isn't to out there, and a better idea of the axel path)
Just uploaded some graphs just for you
Check'em out:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7959633
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7959626
(Compared them to the 2010 Giant Glory to show that my leverage ratio isn't to out there, and a better idea of the axel path)
- + 1
i think i understand how it moves xD but in my opinion is the linkage between seatstay and chainstay is useless?????
- + 1
The connecting link is what allows the wheel mount in the back to remain level through its travel.
- + 0
Can you post a video showing the movement without the dogbone link b/w seat and chainstay? I bet you'd be surprised with the outcome.
- + 1
It simply would not work, the system would go floppy because it would have to many degrees of freedom in the linkage.
- + 1
I really don't see what you are getting at, I already know exactly what would happen. Please elaborate.
- + 1
It's a moot point, since it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, and it's impossible for us to understand what the other is saying/meaning in words. What I'm referring to is the fact that you've basically got a Lawwill style linkage (only looking at the CS, SS, and dropout - I realize the shock actuating linkage keeps it from actually being Lawwill). A Lawwill style dropout does not require the dogbone piece that your design has. I do not see there being any excess degree of freedom with that piece being removed.
In the static state if you removed the linkage connecting the CS and SS, and then tried to move the axle, I do not see it moving. I think the argument could be made about degrees of freedom allowing movement if the SS pivot was placed above and towards the BB in relation to the CS pivot. ( I'm sure that makes no sense to you )
In the static state if you removed the linkage connecting the CS and SS, and then tried to move the axle, I do not see it moving. I think the argument could be made about degrees of freedom allowing movement if the SS pivot was placed above and towards the BB in relation to the CS pivot. ( I'm sure that makes no sense to you
)- + 1
Okay I see what you are saying. And I do see the resemblance to the Lawwill system. But I stand by saying that if the connecting rod between the CS and the SS is removed, the linkage would flop.
Try to picture the side view of the frame (as seen in the video) with the connecting rod removed. Now think, the shock link connecting the frame to the CS is fixed by the shock and frame. So if you now just apply gravity to the back end where the wheel sits, the wheel mount will rotate clockwise as the SS rotates downwards along with the CS (at different rates of course). This will happen just because there is two fixed pivots (CS to Rocker and SS to frame) with a link containing two pivots connecting them.
Effectively it would be like having the Lawwill with no shock mounted to it.
Hope that makes sense
Try to picture the side view of the frame (as seen in the video) with the connecting rod removed. Now think, the shock link connecting the frame to the CS is fixed by the shock and frame. So if you now just apply gravity to the back end where the wheel sits, the wheel mount will rotate clockwise as the SS rotates downwards along with the CS (at different rates of course). This will happen just because there is two fixed pivots (CS to Rocker and SS to frame) with a link containing two pivots connecting them.
Effectively it would be like having the Lawwill with no shock mounted to it.
Hope that makes sense
- + 1
Design and all the stuff,from my opinion is really good,but if they are going to make it is a chance to be too over-weight?
- + 1
Agreed, might have a Mac if it weren't for that. I've heard talk of it coming to mac in the near future though.
- + 2
So what's the situation with chain growth? I don't fully understand the effects of suspension/pedal feedback/pedal bob as a result of chain growth but I believe bikes with extreme rearward wheel paths such as this have issues resulting from pulling on the chain through suspension travel?
I'm not hating, just want to know.
I'm not hating, just want to know.
- + 2
Thanks for the honest question 
Bikes with a significant rearward wheel path can suffer from chain stretch, but there are remedies to it. To put it as simply as possible, the closer the upper part of the chain ring is to the center of curvature (in this case just bellow the main pivot) the lower the amount of chain stretch because the distance between the rear wheel and the point which the chain contacts the chainring is changes very little.
So for a bike like this with a very rearward wheel path the use of an idler pulley ( as seen to the bottom left of the main pivot) prevents the chain from having any unwanted stretch. Then to prevent the slack part of the chain from stretching, angling the chain guide forward raises the guide pulley to a height where chain stretch is as small as needed.
Bikes with a significant rearward wheel path can suffer from chain stretch, but there are remedies to it. To put it as simply as possible, the closer the upper part of the chain ring is to the center of curvature (in this case just bellow the main pivot) the lower the amount of chain stretch because the distance between the rear wheel and the point which the chain contacts the chainring is changes very little.
So for a bike like this with a very rearward wheel path the use of an idler pulley ( as seen to the bottom left of the main pivot) prevents the chain from having any unwanted stretch. Then to prevent the slack part of the chain from stretching, angling the chain guide forward raises the guide pulley to a height where chain stretch is as small as needed.