Turner DHR: A Closer Look!

 Makes me wish I haven't bought a brand new bike..

 bicycle engineering at its finest

 its so, so, so TRENDY!!! no but really it looks pretty sick, probably on the list for my next frame.

 on the other hand 3200 is a bit steep...

 "a bit" is the understatement of the year!

 demo'd this bike today at whistler, I have to say it was amazing! This thing instills confidence in you, hitting sections faster than i've ever done and didn't even break a sweat. I was just gliding over slippery roots & rocks, something i'm still not used to coming from Aus. That being said tho the 2011 Demo 8 is also blistering fast and cheaper.

 the wheel base seems much shorter than the old DHR, I like that my buddy has the last DHR and its pretty long sorta sluggish in the cornering department.

 finally!!

 Looks amazing, love the innovation.. Demo doesn't have a 63.4* HA and 13.4" BB height.. so I guess a demo can't do that

 agreed about the Turner's slacker HA....but do you REALLY need a 63 degree HA???? i'm damn happy with my 64 degree HA...
and dont get me wrong, I really admire this new DHR....its a thing of beauty.

i'm not going to sit here and debate HA with anyone, but i have rode a Demo for quite some time now and when i go sit on my brother's DHR...its a completely different bike, to the point were i dont feel comfortable on it....granted his is a few years older, but still i dont like it....i think once youget comfortable on a Speshi's FSR design, all other bikes just dont 'feel right'.....and vice versa.

 The thread above is the perfect example of how gullible and manipulable the DH market is. Some years ago I am willing to bet that the demo crowd above was on DW's other frame, the IH Sunday; and if not they, then many others. When some big guns took specialized on board as their frame sponsor, and before IH went out of business, much of the market moved Demo's. At this time did the demo suddenly improve drastically while the Sunday and others lagged? No. Now it looks as if the transfer is complete; a couple of talented riders have managed to recruit the masses to what is in fact a mediocre bike. The Demo is hardly a bike to die for on the merits of its platform; better axle path, shock actuation, weight, materials and same or better geometry can be found on other frames for equal or less money. But the following the frame generates would have you think otherwise.

The fact that the market is so easily swayed by emotive, non-performance oriented marketing tactics reduces the incentive of big companies to orient resources towards technology and performance enhancements; yes, that is a fact about the political economy of the DH market, and yes, it does mean that the "fan boy" class of people, if big enough, will indeed slow down the technological development of DH bikes.

 very sexy bike, ive always wanted one

 Pablum and opiate for the masses sells. Having said that, there are glimmers of improvement and some consumers are getting better educated

 wow.... that is all

 JSYVANEN,

Dude you can't be more right then you are. I totally agree with every single word you wrote up there.

We live in a publicity world and in 2010 most of the kids are looking to be hot and trendy. The reason the demo is more popular then before well known by all of us. No it ain't a a breaktrough platform, it is just a tweaked 2004 Demo 9. But put Hill on it and make it the best bike in the world just like the Sunday back in the days ...

Now back to the topic the new Turner seems very promising and i would die to try it. I like most of it and im sure that just one ride would convince my to burn 3200$ on a new frame.

 lol, he looks at his watch for the day... do this so much without realising

 im still rocking the IH sunday, which with or without sam hill on it is a great bike. I will be looking to upgrade to this next season because the dw link rules! and this turner has been a long time coming but it has definitely been worth the wait

 Although I agree w/jsyvanen, the demo has always been popular(@ diablo atleast).. But not necessarily as a race bike, more as a FR/bike-park bike..

 mtblocos,

even if it were true that it was 'popular' before, there is no denying that its popularity in the last 2 years has greatly risen for reasons completely unrelated to its merits as a DH platform... no?

Care to expound on the standards the Demo set?

 ok, i'm not going to get into an online debate over this...and you are right that the last 1-2 years the Demo has grown in popularity...no doubt due to SH and BF.....but i'll say it again, the Demo has always been a top-of-the-line bike with a great reputation which consequently made it very popular.

about the 'standards' that the Demo set.....are you kidding me? to each his own i guess, but i dont think i'm in the minority when I say that it is one of the best bikes out there.

 Cool, but it looks just like a banshee legend, no?

 From experience the demo's have the amazing quality of feeling right the moment you swing your leg over one. No weird ride characteristics and great cornering and steeps geometry. Not the best over square edge hits though but no bike can be perfect for everything. The durability is also a major bonus for me. I rode two 250+ lap summers at Whistler without having to replace one pivot bearing! For these reasons alone, specialized have me as a loyal customer.

 What standards did the demo set mtblocos? Hate to say it but the demo didn't introduce shit, better anything, nor did it set a bar for performance. The demo did absolutely nothing. It is a frame with technology based off their older bikes (FSR). So in other words, the demo is just a marketing hack if anything. Sure it's a decent frame, but that doesn't make it better or a standard setter. If anything, the big hit set more of a standard than the demo did. But then again... most of the children on pink bike were not around on dh bikes before the demo came around. Heck, there have been MANY more bikes to set standards than specialized.

 Mtblocos,

I think I am done posting on this after this post. It is an empirical question, not a value or aesthetics question, and so the 'to each his own' is not really a viable answer here- the claim is either confirmed or dis-confirmed by evidence. Anyhow, did the demo introduce any new technology to DH that became an industry standard on account of the performance it facilitated? The answer seems to me to be an outstanding no, and, in fact, a regress solely on account of the following reason (leaving aside other parameters):

The demo has an extraordinarily inefficient use of material in the swing arm assembly. It uses 3 chain stays, while achieving nothing more than what a traditional fsr with two chain stays (one to the shock actuator and the other to the lower pivot) achieves. This adds to the moving mass of the swing arm assembly, and reduces its ability to absorb input from the ground efficiently. There are bikes which achieve a better wheel path (more rearward) while at the same time having very little moving mass in the rear end.

The answer to the popularity increase is not to be found in the merits of the platform.

 Hooray for educated debate and not mud flinging!

 There are no bad bikes, only bad riders .

 true that! id say huffy sucks pretty bad though....

 lol, Well, no. Huffy was a k/wallmart brand for so long... but if you remember their race frame in what 2001 or 2... that COMPLETELY slaughtered the race scene. It was the equivalent to the Ultrabox at the time. One of the first frames to bring the integrated headsets to BMX. Even brands like huffy have their place

 I agree, we shouldn't see to many Pajama rider's on these rig's. I love the Raw finish, no bling just all zing.

 pajama riders

 Comment of the year?

 if so im honored

 Haha, I love how guys go around and just try and do their best at being a smart ass, for really no reason. The integrity of this site is horrid.

 Knolly Podium - also made in Can and US - $ 3250 MSRP. I think downhillnews is bang on with the comparables

 why did they not mention the option for green paint in the video

 SC owns the patent for VPP, so yes, they don't have to pay any licensing fees for it. It's also a much bigger company than Turner, Banshee and Canfield, so their production costs will be lower as well.

 Hence why i see so many 951 around.

 I think it's just different sizing mate. Where you planning to get yours from?
I've seen the prices on Silverfish and it's scary.

 i know. But you have to pay for supposed quality i guess. i plan to get it from somewhere in the US or Canada because it works out much cheaper even with import tax

 I couldn't agree more. $3200 for a frame is ridiculous.

 This is lower volume, niche, and probably has more hand assembly, with a lot of R&D expense invested in it. Fair deal. Would have hoped to see it priced under $3k like some of the direct competition but w/e I doubt Turner riders will complain much.

 Sure but in real terms its up to $1000 more than some of its competitors. To me it raises the question of value for money.

 My take on this, regarding the Turner or anything else, is that it isn't really anyone's place to say that its too expensive. If you have the money and want one, buy it and be stoked. If you don't have the money, or just don't want to spend the money, then its not for you. It is all relative, it isn't uncommon for our bikes to easily cost more than $3000 complete, which to a new rider or someone that isn't in the scene can sound insane.

 What you pay for made in the USA

 In the long run, it's worth the extra money. Ask any Turner owner out there. Dave stands behind his products. It's also 100% U.S.A.

 I'd be more than happy to pay $3200/£2055! It's £2695 in RipOff Britain....

 I think something that could contribute to the "want" of the Turner DHR, as with any other high end bike is the boutique value of it. There is something to be said for being the first on the block, or the only in your town to own something. A top spec complete bike may provide you with an awesome part spec, but obviously the boutique value of that bike is much lower in comparison to a bike of this caliber.

 Besides the boutique factor, you have to look at the bare facts regarding this frame. Two industry giants coming together on it. I'm no fanboy, but you can't deny the influence of the two Daves on our sport. Both of them designing a frame that neither wanted to release until it was just right? Priceless...

 lotta machining work cost extra $$ , still got to pay if i want it, becoz i cant make it myself

 This frame is gorgeous. You cant knock it for being expensive, that would be like knocking a Ducati for being more than a Kawasaki. Yeah a ZX-10 will smoke most Ducati's but id rather have a 1098 in my garage any day.

 Yeah you're paying a lot up front, but I still see tons of square tubed DHRs at the mountain every weekend. The fact is these frames last, and if you ever have an issue you're taken care of, most likely free of charge. Which is the least I can say about a lot of bigger bike companies.

 ye you guys think you are being ripped off, If we order stuff from the US it works out several hundred pounds cheaper even with import tax

 Am I they only one who doesn't think $3200 is alot? Aside from giant and specialized, most dh frames are between 2800-3300. Intense, banshee, some yetis, are all around that msrp price range. It just proves your a sucker if you pay msrp.

 No, and it is alot. You just arent appreciating the machine work. Look at that frame!! Im suprised its not more. You dont buy one of these because its the most cost effective way down the mtn. Why do they build Ferraris when you can spend less and go faster? I dont have the money for one of these, but I sure wish I did!!

 All other pricing factors excluded, generally a graph of the ratio of cost vs. performance would show the two are NOT consistent. For example, the plotted line of "cost" would arc upwards while "performance" would be linear (or even arc in a flattening direction). At the top end, decreasingly smaller increments of performance match up to increasingly larger increments of cost. This is consistent in many markets, not just bikes.

I'm sure this frame performs better than a comparable frame priced ~$500 less, but those differences are likely slight and the masses wouldn't comprehend the differences anyways. But to someone who *would* know the difference, the cost is justified.

I guess you'd see two types on this sort of bike, the spoiled b*tches that have spare $$ to throw at the bling or the riders that you should have big respect for.

 @darkstar63 yeah but that car wont go round corners like the ferraris. Same with this bike the bottom brake is so low it's going to corner like a beast.

Sunday was fast recon this will be to. Not that expensive if you ask me think of the devlopment that has gone into this.

 @stooky: pretty easy to build a car that can go faster in every aspect of a ferrari for less.. but you don't have a warranty, the interior is probably crap, it won't get noticed the same way a ferrari does, it probably doesn't sound as good as a ferrari.. There's a reason Ferrari's are more expensive than other cars, same reason this Turner is more expensive than other comparable bikes.

 Esstinkay sounds like a jealous f**k

 I don't think your statement could be any more wrong or racist.

 How is that wrong or racist? Wth is wrong with people these days. I'm sure your just as patriotic with your Spanish companies so stop being such a hyprocrit.

 1. By your maths a turner will last 50 years?
2. You imply that companies including Santa Cruz, Giant, Banshee, Specialized, etc. make "crap".
3. You also imply that all things US made are of superior quality. Intense for example has one of the biggest quality issues in the industry.
4. Taiwan has less people living below the poverty line and lower unemployment than the US, its hardly a sweatshop.
5. Taiwan has an average of 1.03 Children per woman. The US have 1.83. In other words, the average family size in Taiwan is actually smaller than in the US.

 undercoverfreak re. #3, Intense has had some quality issues but they are generally moving in a much better direction. Don't believe the anti-hype. Facts are better than myths. Good points made, otherwise.

 How did i imply any of that? lol. Man people need to learn how to read.

Have you ever been to America? Have you ever been to Asia? If you answer yes to both you may have an idea, but if not, you are so far off. Good googling skills by the looks, even tho the facts you stated has nothing to do with my comment. So answer me this... what is the avg wage per hour btw the 2 countries? If your going to argue, stop being a liberal and stay on argument instead of going off track with illrivant mumbo jumbo.

Like said, stop being such a sissy. Did I really hurt your feelings that bad? Just mind your own biz if you disagree

Point is, if you don't like USA or Canadian made stuff...... welllll doooont buy it. We don't want to sell you our goods anyways.

  canadian hand built wilson frame in the uk is £1500 with rc4 shock,Taiwan built frame american owned specialized demo 8 with rc4 is £2000 who is taking advantage of who.

 Bad comparison. One has much much more R&D behind it than the other. Demo also has a ton more machining etc on it. let's put it this way, if the demo was hand made in the usa it would cost more than what the turner's msrp is.

Gotta remember what labor goes into a frame. The wilson is a very simplistic frame, while the demo is no way in such.

 All devinci parts are cnc machined from billet,demo parts are cold forged and hydro formed,devinci has more man hours per frame,granted couple inches more to weld on a demo but the top tube is robot welded,great argument you had but you let yourself down there young fella.

 end of the day, i still want a dhr one unit

 @rffr: you are implying that Giant, Specialized, Banshee are "crap" when you said "go buy a taiwanese crap frame if you want "cheap", as those frames are made in Taiwan. And there's nothing to back up your statement that a Turner will last 10x longer than any of those brands. Comparing average wages per hour between two countries is irrelevant, because the cost of living is also different. Believe me, they're not suffering in Taiwan. And yes, I've been there. And I've been to the U.S. of f'n A. You'd be hard pressed trying to convince people that the US is the more advanced country. Have you been there? And families of 10? I don't think so. I think there's a lot more of that happening in the US than it is over there. Anyone who thinks Taiwan is a poor third world country has his head up his ass.

 Holy crap just drop it. I really don't give a ratts ass about this topic or thead no more. Move on.

 those tyres r awsome 1 of or if not the best tyres maxxis had done

 I think they are the best front tyre on the market, the 3c on the back just wears to quick.

I'd love to through a leg over this thing.

If tyre clearance was an issue why didn't you go to a 2.75" stroke shock?

I think this might be my next rig

 I thought I was the only one that noticed that :p

 So strip it down, send it to Dekerf for whatever custom paint job you feel you need. You are on a Turner DHR - who gives a rats what colour it is?

 Yep because that's more cost effective then paying for a factory spray isn't it.
Who give's a rats what colour it is? The same people that like to differentiate; but you already knew that right. A simple selection of 4-5 different frame colours isn't too much to ask. Lets say, Raw, the Anodised black, White, Blue,and green.

 No doubt - so many cool things he's done just to think things through. Insane attention to detail

 It looks super progressive through its travel too.

 Try extreme snowmobiling

 Just because that is also very expensive doesnt make mountain biking any less expensive. Its not exactly a pair of soccer boots and a ball is it.

 Can you give an example of a cheap vehicle-based sport? Maybe skateboarding if you don't snap decks all the time...

 Mountain biking "as a whole" isn't this expensive. This is boutique. These are the Ferraris and Porsches of the sport. You can easily get into mountain biking for a lot less money.

 It is called perfection, DT won't release the bike till he is completly satisfied with everthing about it. So cry all you want about the late release at least people won't be upset they bought a 2010 and then the bike was changed months later, like Intense and the 951

 There were no changes to the 951 wtf are you ranting on about ? Stop trying to score points with your mindless drivel.

 no the 951 wasn't changed but now the m9 is coming out

 Dude anyone who knew anything at the time who were looking for an Intense DH frame knew the M6 would be replaced with an M6FRO or something else. Peeps with a 951 seem mostly super happy and most don't need the M9. Quit making up this myth about people whining and go back to sleep. Nobody's hassled about this and most people are stoked.

 Why don't you all take an Intense & a Demo and shove it your f'ing arse. One article about this fantastic Turner DHR and you're all on one like bitches in season. WHY DO IT????? HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT TO YOURSELF--> "WHY AM TALKING A LOAD OF BOLLOX ABOUT THE DW LINK & THE TURNER 2011 DHR?"
"Intense this, Demo that. Who cares, go and get that all singing all dancing other bike if you think it's the dogs danglies; no need to piss on the Turner parade.
It's not cool, it's pathetic, the only thing you might gain is a little self esteem and positive prop..big f'ing YAY.
At least Turner give their buyers a chance to ride the bike and become a fan of their technology instead of dropping a revised frame onto the market every five minutes eh?!. OOO look, new Demo, new Intense; great stuff, so great that once you sit on the damn thing it's out of date and DEEP DOWN you feel lamed out when the newer frame drops the following season. Oh and HTF does it look like a Banshee Legend, are you on cocaine?
Half of you lot don't even have the experience of riding the FSR, VPP and DW platform on various PROPER downhilltrails and somehow you think one is way better than the other? Get off your sandy bike trail and get educated.

 Good rant Keiron 9/10 for quality, now go to the pub and chillout.

 Great rant! I have spent time on VPP bikes owned several versions of FSR bikes, Maestro bikes and quite a bit of time on DW bikes. So I can say Turner and his relationship with DW is most likely piss all over these other "me to" bikes.

 Ok off to the pub lol

 Keiron - you said what a lot of people thought

 keiron you sounded like my highschool teacher

 Omg did I write that? I feel horrible, i'm not even like that anymore, I've calmed down loads.

 outlaws arent bad wheels, sure they are on the heavy side but they are bombproof and inexpensive, great for demo bikes like this one

 Some people like their wheels to last more than a season...

I say Halo SAS & Mag 30 ftmfw buuut, turner has to please everyone so they settle for some outlaws.

 takes this cuz i think a whole bunch of kids on your town is already on demos so yeah be unique!

 thats what i was thinking as well, pretty much every second person at the races will have a demo so i think i will probs go for the turner because it all about flat out performance

 Good choice i`d say, but have you considered a knolly podium?

 Yer $3,195.00 USD Frame only

 ...As far as I'm awear thats the norm for a frame of this calibre. Equates to a hair over 2 grand (plus import tax) its only gonna be the same as Intense, Santa Cruz etc etc.

 And knolly podium at 3200 bucks...

 only three companies have the license. Turner Ibis Pivot

 Not exactly DW link, but Evil had some help with their linkage by DW. And the 2011 Devincis will have the DW split pivot. DW's a busy guy!

 to Sharonb.. I reckon the sort of buyer of the Turner will feel differently about the bike even if the ride and quality are indistinguishable. I totally agree that most Taiwan bikes are nicely made though but having owned Oranges and Santa Cruz I never felt as attached to my Taiwan bikes even though my Commencal Supreme road like a dream.

 Santa Cruz bikes are made in Taiwan.

 Not entirely true (or false). All of sc's single pivots and hardtails are made in Taiwan but all vpp bikes are US made.

 From what I've been told, Giant manufactures every Santa Cruz except the carbon models and the aluminum V-10.

 did you not watch the video? the 1.5 is to allow for headset angle adjustments. Those headset clamp designs are hack, and end up creaking, and also reducing headtube lifespan, soooo they made a solid straight 1.5 that can have degree'd 1 1/8 reducer cups in it. Soooo not running 1.5 they are running an adjustable 1 1/8 theoretical steer tube size.

 Thnk god they didn't go tapered. 1.5 FTW.

 Well tapered wouldn't allow for an adjustable head angle, and being that was the specific reason for a 1.5 in the first place, it would have been pointless to do such.

 Do you even have a remote idea of what that implies? You're basically saying that the M9 appeared out of nowhere. Having a full flotilla of prototypes underneath a WC team should count as R&D time, but the DHR doesn't have any of that when the CRC Intense team are all on the M9 since the start of the season. Then there's the whole quality thing that just sounds ridiculous because they're both made in your lovely USA. Wow man, just wow.

 I love turners (rode a dhr a few years ago) but how can you make that statement?

do you work at intense? do you work at turner? do you design frames for eiher or have access to the man hour records they have?

 the difference being that turner haven't brought out like three different DH bike in the past couple of years claiming each one to be the bestest, most awesomest, race winningest machine like intense. They just got on with their shit and brought out one awesome bike.

 Agreed, just seems Intense can't get it right...lol seriously they keep changing bikes like underwear.

 Intense brought out the 951 for a different purpose than the M9. The M6 Evo was just the R&D phase before the M9 FRO. Get over it, ladies.

 I dont care what anyone says. Turner is the best company out there. I personally own an 09 dhr, and have ridden a proto dw dhr. Unfortunatley, i have not taken one of the final product out for a spin, but judging from the fact that every other dhr (aside from the 06 which seems to crack a lot) has been an amazing bike, better each rendition, this thing will be killer. No one is is as passionate as dave when it comes to making frames. and it shows, I work at one of the top turner dealers in the world, and i cant tell you how many happy customers come back after buying a sweet turner. Say or think what you want, i dont give a f*ck. TURNER KICKS ASS

 Agreed, the amount of r&d Dave put into hs bikes combined with the fact the he stands behind his customers makes Turner one of the best companies, hands down. I don't hear of Intense being loyal to their customers.
Unlike Intense who put out the m3,m6, socom, 951 and now the m9, Dave would rather put out bike when he is happy with the results, not just a "filler" bike

 M1 through to M9 has all been an evolution process. Other bike companies were running branded M1's back in the day and ridden by their racers. Quit trying to score points when nobody else is. Intense are trying to give their riders the same advantage, just the way the DHR has evolved, but they've taken products to market faster and sold units to happy customers to repay the R&D. Buy a DHR, keep a frame for five years, ride Turner, who cares providing you're happy and stoked on your bike. The M6EVO was never publicly released so that cannot be called a "filler bike" as it was just an R&D process to figure out the next version of the series.

It's a competition, without really being a competition. It's just evolution of technology.

Turner seem legit to me but I will add I've had great service and support from Intense when it came to the crunch. But this point scoring and bitching just comes across as irritating.

 i see no bitching or point scoring. your high. turner always stands by their customers, ive seen people break their 1999 javelin's (99 dhr) and had them replaced with a new one pretty darn quick. Plus, the DHR is notorious for being ridden by other teams. team giant rode them for about 5 years back in the day. anyways, this is boring. I know how i feel, you know how you feel. I honestly have no idea why intense was brought into this convo. But best of luck with your intense bicycle.

 "I honestly have no idea why intense was brought into this convo" - scroll up the thread to see the bitching.

 My thoughts exactly, absolutely pathetic some of the people on here, no sense in having a discussion about a designated topic whatsoever.

 seriously, thank you. anyways, new dhr looks sick! definatley on my wish list

 Hated the v10 anyways hahaha...

 vpp system has far out performed the dw link in my opinion, having ridden both, and im currently sticking with my v10. its no coincidence the vpp has lead team crc to the team title so much, and it won the worlds last year and is in contention of overall world cup title this year. please take note "IN MY OPINION" don't want to cause an arguement just airing my opinion.

 Sorry "in my opinion" I do not like vpp bikes, i have spent time on a few and the suspension just can't compare to a DW or an FSR bike

 so why do you ride meastro?!

 it is very good also comparing my demo7 with fox 40 and my glory the both ride great but have their differences. Also Maestro is similar to DW and until now there weren't any great DW bikes, since the Sunday. The Glory and my 09 Reign x were dirt cheap also. If I could afford it a Turner DW 5-Spot or Ibis HD would be my trail bikes. Instead saving for the DHR.