Shimano's 2012 XTR Rear Derailler Explained - Sea Otter 2011 by mikelevy

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double-mint (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:07)

Looked kinda nice. but when it comes to realism, My sram XO doesn't need this and it doesn't bounce...

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philipstonier (Apr 23, 2011 at 2:49)

genius

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mountguitars (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:01)

out of sarcasm, does the X0 rd need a switch to make it work?

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pperini (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:57)

well..ive encountered situations that my derailleur just didt break exactly because it moved backwards on the crash after hitting a log..i saw that with my eyes cuz i was already not on the bike anymore..so maybe could it be that with this system i would have got a broken derailleur on that same crash? makes me wonder...its nice tho, i like it..somehow

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WAKIdesigns (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:45) (Below Threshold)

Not much of a sarcasm, more of a swearing like a shagged pig when putting the chain on sram rear mech equipped bike. Then trying to put the wheel in with my super tensioned x9 rear mech, a part of my brain screams: "we cells responsible for manual skill grouped with cells responsible for finger care demand cells responsible for curiousity to be brought to us! We will kick their arses for this change from shimano to sram!

So if you think that sram is great because they have a high tensioned spring, please examin the downsides too... I never had problem jumping and noisy Shimano rear mech. Maybe super high tensioned sram springs are great for DHillers and roadies but not for anyone else..

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JRoe (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:53) (Below Threshold)

Narr I hate SRAM. I find there not built as well as the shimano stuff. I had a SRAM rear mech on an old big hit and it sucked. It kept braking. In the end I sold the bike. But every bike I own has shimano stuff on.

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DARKSTAR63 (Apr 23, 2011 at 5:16)

I like the look of this. Would have to try to be fully sold, but I am a die-hard Shimano fan and have very little doubt this mech works well, as Shimano products always do

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JRoe (Apr 23, 2011 at 5:27)

Totally agree dude.

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fr3er1d3r (Apr 23, 2011 at 8:27)

idk I'm happy with my xt deore but high end sram vs high end shimano...tough choice but I might just choose SRAM

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Bjammin (Apr 23, 2011 at 8:30)

@pperini, I totally agree. I have lots a back wheel in a crash, and expected my derailler to be absolutlely in pieces, but it had just turned upside down and otherwise would have been fine if it werent for the rock that it landed on.

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forkbrayker FL (Apr 23, 2011 at 9:36)

goddamn waki you are truly annoying. theres thousands of shimano users that would disagree with you and say that the chainslap they get is indeed noisy and annoying. i had it until i went to SRAM. and a few friends of mine have resorted to wrapping the mech knuckle in old tyres to stop damage to the frame and noise.

also whats with the spazzy inability to change a chain/wheel on the mech thats got higher tension, we were born with opposable thumbs you know, please dont say you are one of these folk that refuse to turn their bike upside down when doing these things, it makes me laugh then cry a little when i see folk battling with the bike balancing it right side up or on its side, so try putting the bike upside down when you do it - ts no bother then.

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DARKSTAR63 (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:09)

Most of your newer Shimano mechs do not have this slap issue you speak of. Saint/XT/SLX, I have owned all three, they are all excellent. The "Shadow" profile is also a stellar feature. Im not a Sram hater, XO is nice sh*t, but I dont understand the superiority complex that running their parts seems to infect people with.

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loaded (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:14)

+1 is it really that hard to change your wheel?

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JRoe (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:41)

Again I agree with that. Changing a rear wheel is pretty easy. I mean the hardest bit is if you on bolt through hubs.

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aoneal (Apr 23, 2011 at 11:55)

Yep, wouldn't think twice about ditching my XO for this.

XO derailleurs are like a bottle of Jack Daniels , they are both a simple, no nonsense and reliable way to get through the tough stuff. I'll never have any issues if they're both with me while riding

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sashamtbrider (Apr 23, 2011 at 20:55)

FINALLY!!!! I've been waiting for this derailleur for years! My old derailleur and chain were making way too much noise, so i decided to switch to a single speed bike. Yea, Whatever...

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puffer-hun (Apr 23, 2011 at 0:42)

i didnt know that i need this

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Tom-moT (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:07)

Is chain damping really necessary? What next, high & low speed settings?

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justincs (Apr 23, 2011 at 6:58)

Tom-moT u r correct Sir, I'm holding out for the XTR with dual air canisters and virtual pivot carbon rockers and ceramic jockey wheels, with a hydraulic remote switch, for my bike (mid 80's cro-mo frame, very little rust)

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CT-2 (Apr 23, 2011 at 9:59)

It's hilarious really, the response from people on this site to ANY and all products. Every single time I click on a new product thread, I'm met with the same scared sarcastic comments; "stupid", "what I need this for?", "specialized rox", etc. I really do not understand it... for pinkbike to be the largest mtb resource, how almost all the readers can be so naive, and quick to dismiss.

This derailleur looks awesome. How can this be a bad idea at all? I just bought a chain guide because I was having problems with loosing my chain on some really rough fast downhills. This might have solved the problem! People saying to use an old inner tube to stop the noise, sure that would cut back on noise but does nothing to stop you loosing your chain... which is the main point I see with this system. And others saying "sram has had a stiffer chain for years", so? Whats your point? Now Shimano has a better system, that can be disengaged to make removing the tire or cleaning/maintenance even easier, how can that possibly be a bad thing? All I can see are positives to this, and I hope the technology tickles down the line, because this seems like a GREAT benefit to all mountain bikes.

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Svard75 (Apr 23, 2011 at 5:54)

Holy Shit Guys (Re: with a SRAM it's difficult to drop the wheel) are you being serious? What are your fingers made of jello? As I said in a previous post Re: Shimano's 2012 lineup that option does not seem to be necessary IMO. A stronger spring is all you need and SRAM has that perfected. Although I prefer Shimano Cranks and BB's over any other so it's perfectly okay to have a mix and match comp setup.

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eder (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:36)

I love all Sram stuff, but XTR yet is more precise and smooth. I really appreciate to move the gear and don't listen strange sounds. Even for DH, Saint works better. The Nippon guys really know make gear mechanisms.

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CT-2 (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:00)

As for the cons... I guess only time will tell. But when people were saying that in a crash their derailleur will now break, I dont think that will necessarily happen. The stiffer spring and dampening system only stop the momentum of the derailleur and chain. If you crash you have a lot more force hitting it, and I'm sure it will be enough to overcome the spring tension and the derailleur will move without breaking. It is not TOTALLY fixed, as was said in the video, it is not static, it still moves to accomodate chain growth. The only thing I can see is that with stiffer tension there is more force on the chain and cassette during shifting, which might wear it faster, but I dont know.

How about instead of constantly bashing any and all products, people step off their high horse and actually look at a product for what it is, whether you intend to buy it or not. Im sure the big companies (especially Shimano of all of them) know what they are doing, know what the market wants, and make products accordingly.

(double post only because my first post was too long, and I was flagged as spamming... little ticked off at that one pinkbike...)

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forkbrayker FL (Apr 25, 2011 at 3:10)

well you would think that they know what they are doing, and on the most part they are pretty much bang on, however......

shimano bio pace chainrings...need i say more
reverse shifting !!
combined brake and gear shifting into one lever for MTB???

complete redesign of certain groupsets every few years implies they they cant leave things stagnant and that they need to reinvent/improve products all the time to better sales or steal sales from competitors - sometimes i reckon these "improvements" take less priority than the profits they are intended to make.

personally speaking, i have been riding for 17 years now and never had a problem that this rear mech solves and justifies buying a new one/swapping from SRAM for

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betsie (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:51)

I wondered how long it would take Shimano to do this to their rear mech.
It is more like X0 as said by others.

I hope one day someone makes a rear mech designed for a frame that sits in between the chainset and the frame (as if you were drawing a line between the 2).
For a hard tail this would be the way forward as there is no need for worrying about chain growth due to suspension movement and it would keep everything out of the way, also means a larger contact to the cassette.... come on boys, lets have one please. Tension controlled either at the chainset (simple and has been done before already) or in the mechanism at the cassette with 2 sliding jockey wheels in the path of the chain line.

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spudlord (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:34)

just run a really short chain and the mech will be pulled forward

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uglypoo (Apr 23, 2011 at 7:49)

i'm just want to know whats wrong with the old skool idea on an old bit of inner tube round the chainstay to stop any noise or damage? a bit cheaper than buying a whole new mech just to stop the noise.

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andyc709292 (Apr 24, 2011 at 1:53)

I'd put that on a 1/10 XC bike, should work nicely there. Wouldn't put it on my single pivot heckler though as I wouldn't trust it not to interfere with rear travel chain growth. DH bike? meh, if I was putting XTR on a DH bike then I think I'd be earning too much.

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oceen246 (Apr 23, 2011 at 8:33)

It is not only a stiffer spring so comparing it so sram doesn't make sense. Being realistic, I run might chain as tight as possible. I run x9 derailleur and to avoid having the chain all over the place, i tension the derailleur as much as i can (removing the rear shock and moving the swing arm up in its travel to account for chaingrowth etc). If that technology works, it will be much simpler to put a chain on an unknown bike as i will not have to be extremely precise with the chain length.

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ashopvt (Apr 23, 2011 at 21:09)

So when the switch is in the "on" position and your riding a trail and your derailleur hits something and it cant move backwards what happens? IMO just another part to break as well. Why not just offer a stiffer spring option....

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jemzik (Apr 23, 2011 at 0:57)

Don't buy it for your fs single pivot bike. Pedal feedbacks will make you crazy on down hill sections May be it's good idea for hard tails.

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attilamaradi (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:15)

I just wonder how the all tight chain by the shadow plus lock system affects gear shifting and the life time of the cassette and chain since there is more friction on the whole mechanism.

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haniffJ (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:15)

Why I need this?

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seraph (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:23)

To make your XTR more like X.0

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mountguitars (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:23)

i'll take 2 of these then.

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haniffJ (Apr 24, 2011 at 19:08)

Why I need to pay more? I already got X.0

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radam (Apr 23, 2011 at 15:30)

Interesting idea but I'll stick with my Sramano set ups. Sram XO shifting, Shimano XT brakes, cranks, and cassettes. Two great tastes that taste good together.

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dutchflick (Apr 23, 2011 at 0:23)

I wonder, if that feature also stiffens the suspension a bit?
edit: shouldn't since the freewheel allows the cassette rotating backwards...

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attilamaradi (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:20)

At first glance the Sram concept is good enough (one stronger spring in the derailleur) because reduces vibration but does not really affects the movement.

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mountguitars (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:04)

does this come in a remote only option? (yes, im sarcastic).

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JustBuyIt (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:39)

How many extra rear derailleur hangers does it ship with?

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JHewitt (Apr 23, 2011 at 8:07)

So Shimano actually designed and built their own frame just to showcase their xtr bits on?
I swear there's going to be a 100% sram/shimano bike soon...

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puker (Apr 23, 2011 at 8:18)

did any of you people watch the video maybe if you had there wouldnt be so many silly coments comparing this to sram xo

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xmesssenger (Mar 5, 2015 at 22:55)

Tough crowd, considering this would turn out to be a massive hit and receive rave reviews from most media.

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yelyayan1976 (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:48)

I never had an issue with my rear derailleur, how much extra will we pay for this engage & disengage mechanism?

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retrofred (Apr 23, 2011 at 9:24)

as time goes by, shimano seems to be sramish IMO

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marcellogiraldi (Apr 24, 2011 at 18:28)

Other "gizmo" by shimano like the oldest XTR remote bar end shifter on 1998 group.

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idahobob (Apr 23, 2011 at 8:25)

Wow, another peice to break.

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SHARK555 (Apr 23, 2011 at 0:17)

thanks god, when i first saw this, i thought it would be electronic shifting. Cool feature, price isnt too bad either.

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s4nt4cruz (Apr 23, 2011 at 1:42)

@SHARK555 price isn't too bad? Paying full retail of $250 for a rear derailleur? I'm sorry but you sound like the total sucker that they intend to get persuaded by these gimmicks... this is nothing more than a stiffer mechanism incorporated into their derailleurs that SRAM customers have been enjoying on for years. I'm drunk right now and you still sound like an idiot!

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mountguitars (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:03)

im drunk right now but i know the difference. sram FTW!

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SHARK555 (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:07)

im a sram guy, and compared to X0, 250 isnt alot.

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allenrotstein (Apr 23, 2011 at 6:28)

@s4nt4cruz: Except that no one sells MSRP. This price scam was created by people like me (Advertisers) to make silly people think our product is worth more than what actually is.. The XTR sells for around $179 ~ $190.
But sometimes local bike shops will charge the MSRP because silly people will pay for it anyways..

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s4nt4cruz (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:24)

@allenrotstein I realize that retail stores/websites can often sell below MSRP, however I was commenting on that fact that SHARK555 was saying that a price of $250 isn't bad for a rear derailleur. And being in advertising you would probably also be aware of the fact that it will definitely not sell anywhere for $179-$190 yet as it is a brand new product with "new technology". Give it a year or so and you might see something like those figures.

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cameronbikes (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:40)

To make it better than X0. It's true, getting my SRAM stuff off to drop a wheel gives me the shits every time. That's why I'm all shimano now.

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JRoe (Apr 23, 2011 at 3:54)

I'm sure the saint rear mech already dose this??? I might be wrong though.

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eder (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:40)

It hasn't the off option.

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JRoe (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:48)

Ohhh riteee

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kriiss (Apr 23, 2011 at 5:09)

The saint mech bounces and it's really noisy.

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JRoe (Apr 23, 2011 at 5:34)

Yeh I've got one it isn't that bad but I know what you mean.

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ShopMechanic (Apr 23, 2011 at 20:39)

MAKE A SHORT CAGE SHIMANO!!! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

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ericbkeep (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:09)

even my x9 dosnt need that

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kona-stinkeis-must-die (Apr 23, 2011 at 10:26)

this really dose work and dusent brake like sram xtr mech ftw

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Samarius (Apr 23, 2011 at 4:23)

does anyone know where i can buy the tool to switch the engage buttton?

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liveless (Apr 23, 2011 at 16:31)

Gearbox ftw!