Easton Havoc DH Wheels Review

Nov 12, 2009
by Jordan Holmes  
28 spokes of strength.

"World Class DH wheels have to be bombproof, but nobody said they have to feel sluggish and unresponsive." Easton's mindset on the aggressive wheel market makes sense. Why not engineer something that is strong, light, responsive, and not garbage? With that, Easton took it into their own hands, and came up with the Havoc DH wheels. 28 spokes of excitement make these wheels light, while some very smart technologies make them strong.

Click here for info on the Havoc DH wheels...As Easton said why make something strong, but brutally slow rolling, and incredibly heavy? It makes no sense. That's why Easton invested some time into their Havoc DH wheels to ensure they are providing the highest strength to weight ratio they could achieve. The final product? Well, it's a light weight, well thought out wheel that's strong, true, and hand built!

Hand built may not mean much to some of you, but some of you should respect the fact someone took the time to hand tension each single spoke to perfect tension. Why do we pay extra for bikes that are hand welded? Because someone took the time, and put in the effort to make a nice finished product, some machine didn't just buzz it out. Easton actually has quite a meticulous method of tensioning and truing their wheels. The worker that builds the wheel has high sensitivity headphones on, and the spokes are tensioned all to a correct "tone". This "tone" is produced a lot like a tuning fork, just the sound the spoke makes when it's struck with the correct weight and material. If all spokes have the same "tone", then the wheel is laced up to the correct rating, and ready for the field.

But before all this wheel building happens, Easton has to manufacture the parts for the wheel. Starting with Easton's 32mm wide Havoc hoop, they then use 28 single butted, straight pull spokes, to lace the 26 inch hoop up to the hub. These hubs are a masterpiece in their own. Both hubs feature double row bearings, on the rotor side for the front, and the driver side of the rear. This double row bearing setup increases the stiffness of that area of the hub by a fair amount, and ensures that the forces applied on that area do not effect the structural strength of the hub, or longevity of that component.

The front hub has removable 20mm adapters ensure you can run your Havoc wheels on either setup, QR or thru-axle. Internally Easton has a removable 9mm axle adapter, that can be changed over to a 20mm thru axle as well, so internal strength of the hub is not effected by this axle change.

The rear hub is equally well thought out. Double row bearings on the drive side ensure the new improved 7050 aluminum freehub body, along with the drive mechanisms last you a long time. All these bearings rotate on a new 7050 alloy tapered axle, which reduces flex significantly over past designs. Easton increased the width, and the diameter of the pawl carrier to improve torque capabilities as well. Both hubs feature a black anodized finish, with perma-graphics.

Release Date 2009
Price $799
Weight 2290.64 g
Color Options Black
Hub Dimensions Front 20mm, Rear 150x12mm
Wheel diameter 26
Riding Genre All mountain, freeriding and downhill
Rim width 28mm
Spoke Count 28

From my first ride on the Easton Havoc DH wheels I have been very pleased. They produced very little drag for a sealed bearing hub, and engagement was a non-issue. Changing out the adapters proved to be extremely easy, and they were securely in place when inside the wheel. Spacing on both hubs was to a tee with no drop out fit issues. I never ran into any issues when putting the Havoc DH wheels on, or taking them off my bike. Mounting tires on the 32mm Havoc Hoop proved to be very easy. The wider rim width adds to the rigidity of the overall wheel, but the rim is not overly tall. This makes for easy tire mounting, and tire removal, as the tire has a fair amount of space to play with.

One small issue that I did run into was tensioning spokes. As they are straight pull spokes they are not locked into place at all. Recently a spoke came loose and posed a fairly large issue for us, as it seemed impossible to tension. The spoke would simply spin. After checking in with the local shop, they informed me that "spokes only ever break at the bend, or the head, and as the Havoc DH Wheels are straight pull they should only break at the heads. So, grab some vice grips, don't clamp too hard, and simply tension the spoke." It made sense to us, we tried it, and it worked just fine.

We then thought we'd better run that theory past Easton for their take on the scenario and this is what they had to say:

The shop is correct; a normal 2.0 straight gauge spoke the highest stress concentration is around the head or bend of the spoke which is were it will normally fail, this is assuming there are no other stress risers in the spoke (gouges or bends). However the Havoc DH uses a 2.4 – 2.0 single butted spoke so the diameter at the head is much larger than a normal spoke which greatly increased stiffness at the same time as strengthening the spoke. The head is no longer the stress riser, so if vice-grips are used and scar the spoke it will be the weakest spot on the spoke.

We recommend tools such as “twist resist” that will not scar the spoke. If you must use vice-grips I would suggest soft jaws to help protect the spoke. Depending on which spoke in the wheel you are working on (front, rear, DS / NDS) it can be easier or harder to hold the spoke. When truing the wheel it is very important to balance the tension on the spokes as well as making the wheel straight and round, this will ensure the wheel stays round after you ride it.

Non Locking Spokes
Non Locking Spokes

We tested the Havoc DH wheels over a period of 4 months, through wet terrain, to dry terrain, to rocks, and roots. These wheels went through it all, and still roll to tell the truth. After 1 fairly large scale wooden landing case I managed to put a fair sized flat spot in the rear wheel, however, I feel it was not the wheel's fault in this situation, rather the rider's fault for going too slow. The wheel is still true, but has a flat spot. Unfortunately, no one has come up with a pain free way of removing flat spots. If a company could develop a method of doing this, they could clean up.

The Havoc DH wheelset weighs in at 2290.64 grams, and should run you about $1,210 MSRP in Canada. Easton is distributed in Canada by OGC, so they should be available through your local shop. If not, check out Easton's Site.


  • + 20
 Great, more proprietary spokes that you won't be able to find at your LBS when you break one.
  • + 1
 this is the best thing you've ever said on pink bike. bravo
  • + 1
 well in seraph, i think i remember having an argument with you a while back, but you have regained my respect lol very true.
  • + 9
 From all the 1k$ prebuild wheels this seems least interesting. Not UST compatible, 100-200g heavier than fulcrum, deemaxx or I9 and no info on the nr. of engagement.
  • + 1
 You can UST or tubeless any system so wots the problem?! n its 90g heavier than Fulcrum but better bearing setup!
  • + 1
 The problem is that it means some extra weight (meaning the 90g goes bigger) and it doesn't work so well with all the tires and all rims (have you checked with easton rims? ). It sometimes burps and I doubt I can run ghetto or the maxis rim strip method on 1-1.2bar pressure.
  • + 3
 if people stopped buying crappy prebuilt wheels, then maybe the industry would stop making them. they're crap to work on, parts are unavailable, and they're just as easy, if not easier usually to destroy than a normal wheel. spokes only break on a normal wheel if crappy spokes have been used, the chain went into the wheel and gouged them up, if the wheels old and tired and ready for replacement anyway, or most likely, the wheel has been neglected and abused. all these problems will affect a fancy straight pull spoked wheel, but when it happens to a normal wheel at least you can get parts right away, from your bike shop. But if your bike shop has a good wheel builder. i mean a REAL good wheel builder, you would get a better wheel by buying normal hubs spokes and rims. support your local bike mechanic, and keep the art of wheel building alive
  • + 1
 surely you're local stockist of these wheels will have the common sense to stock spares for them if they are selling them?! we do!!
"crappy prebuilt wheels"? did you not read the article fully? maybe you should go back and look for the line that said they are "hand built"!!
  • + 1
 prebuilt meaning sold as a set not built by your bike shop. Harmonic trueing?
any joey can be taught to "harminically true" a wheel in no time. it doesn't mean he's any good at it.
  • + 1
 the wheels start out harmonically tuned, but then are tensioned with a tensiometer because no rim comes out perfect and no spokes are perfect, so it is impossible to harmonically tune a wheel and easton knows this...

so you know that d-bag that thinks they know everything about everything and takes every opportunity to they can to try to prove someone wrong so they can feel better about themselves? i believe his name is bigtard...lets see how long it takes him to comment on this and say some impudent comment...
  • + 1
 i don't know what angle you're working on here kaptain fuckwad. the point is the wheels are shit as opposed to the wheels any good wheel builder could build on some good hubs. but you just go ahead and buy them, it only matters if you're a real mountain biker anyways.
  • + 2
 Hey everyone, what are your thoughts on the soft aluminum freehub body?? Looks pretty mashed up after this review. Shouldnt a high end DH wheel set come with a more durable steel body.. It wouldnt take long before you are prying your cassette of with a screw driver when changing it out.
  • + 1
 those mark's are usually caused by an old worn cassette or not spaced & tightened correctly, mine have no 'teeth' marks in them!
  • + 0
 no they're usually caused by crappy soft freehub bodies. that should be used with cog carrier style cassettes. but nobody makes those in the gears you want to run they could be worse because of a loose cassette. but it happens with a totally tight cassette too
  • + 2
 They are not even close in terms of weight - close to half a pound (of unsprung + rolling weight) = no sale.
Also why is the price $799 at the top and $1200+ at the bottom? Canadians getting the shaft.
Not even close to the $400 it costs to get a set of Pro2s on your choice of rims.
  • - 1
 pro 2's are good if you like breaking rear axles regularily
  • + 0
 not if you use a rear bolt thru, a 20mm front goes without saying these days, ive used my hope hoops with QR's (until i get some decent forks) on my flow more for 4X, trials, DJ and northshore no problems what so ever :-) highly recomend them maybe get them in 150 rear for my freeride bike or possibly some nuke proof generator's
  • + 0
 buddy, i've seen so many of those broken with 12 mm bolt through axles lots. i'm pretty suire i've seen at least 8 this year i highly don't recommend them you can be the ninth soon. sell them fast. don't be a statistic.
  • + 0
 i hardly think so, besides the axle isnt part of the hub on a bolt thru so you cant blame that, i ride with a hell of a lot of people from all over the uk that use hope pro 2's with a 12mm axle for downhill, freeride and slopestyle never had a problem they dont even need servicing that often, very smooth long lasting hubs that i will continue to use i will stand by hope and my mate that is sponsored for downhill and a seperate mate sponsored for slopestyle both CHOOSE to use theses hubs they arnt sponsored by hope but they are really good quality hubs, and like i sed the 12mm axle comes with the frame not the hub so blame the bike manafacturer for those not hope, end of story
  • + 1
 Do you think i'm lying to you?
you might be confused. I'm talking about the axle IN the hub, the one the bearings run on
not the thru axle bolt that comes with the frames.
Besides, have you ever seen a frames axle break? no, they don't
you can keep on believing what you want, but i will never buy these hubs or tell anyone to. because i'm serious. i've seen at least 8 this year.
why do you think they're so light?
  • + 1
 Not too sure about these wheels, friend of mine bought them and after two rides destroyed the rear. as if that wasnt bad enough the cust. service wasnt that great from what i hear... long story short he ended up getting a new rim and last weekend this one blew up too. he was riding the same trails that he had zero problems with mavic 729's, i use azonic outlaws on and WTB speed discs and noone of the other rims have had any problmes... i would recomend getting azonics, not saying these are terrible, maybe we are tough on parts, fluke deal whatever it may be.
  • + 1
 Does anybody know if there's a straigh pull spoke out there that has a spline or something similar on the head of the spoke that mates with the hub so that the spoke won't spin when tensioning thereby negating the need for gripping the spoke with vicegrips or some similar tool?
  • + 1
 the dee max spoke has a flat spot pinched into it at the head to stop it from spinning at the flange. but the crappy spoke nipples that like to seize up still make the spoke "wind up"
plus the flat spot they've pinched into the head of the spoke is probably just as much a stress riser as the bent head that they've designed their stupid wheels to avoid.
just the truth
better than vice grips though maybe, thats a joke for sure
use normal wheels
  • + 1
 Thanks for the insight. I understand the concept behind a straight pull spoke but in my opinion it seems like the conventional spoke still has one up on the current straight pull offerings.
  • + 1
 no, these wheels are terrible. I was in the boat thinking that these were a good replacement for my worn out mavic 729 rims. WRONG. I bought them from Jenson for around $450 shipped back at the end of July. My third ride out which was now at Mammoth mount, the rear rim was absolutely destroyed with a giant flat spot, I'm not talkin' a flat spot on the edge of the rim, I'm 'talkin a 3 spot where the rim was not round anymore, and along with that numerous stress fractures at the point of impact and around the 3 surrounding spoke holes. Easton did not cover this under warranty, $130 more out of my pocket to get a new rim. Fast forward to a week ago to do some riding at a semi-local trail, rim is way out of true, and I come to find out I have two broken spokes. My 729s last 2yrs, these have not lasted 6 months yet. Thanks for the crappy product. Looks good on paper, SUCKs on the trail.
  • + 2
 $1200 for a wheelset!! Nutty. Why not get a custom wheelset for cheaper that will be more easily serviced, and is available in any color combo you want?
  • + 1
 these spokes are especially retarded since they vary through 3 different diameters making them hard to find. This set of wheels is my first set I have EVER broken a spoke on too.
  • + 1
 I've been using the AM Havoc's for FR/DH for the last year & a half and they're awesome. I would certainly concider getting a pair of these when I build my next bike.
  • + 1
 Got a set my self and for the money they are a great wheelset, had no issues at all with them.
  • + 1
 How do they compare to a deemax say or pro2 on a 721 in terms of weight?

The hub has no roller bearings, so it's not really that close to a hadley.
  • + 1
 it would be nice to see how the whole spoke pattern looks. instead of just taking pics of half the wheel.
  • + 1
 So after all that are these wheels any good or what???
  • + 1
 how is rims even responsive? Like how fast they roll or wtf?
  • + 1
 the weight of your wheel is multiplied by roughly 3x its standing weight when its spinning so it makes a big difference when your riding tracks with turns, a light wheel is easier to flick around corners and accelerate, if your riding straight rhythm DJ sections then burly rims are ok and their rotation weight actually carries you through the set so light wheels for racing, burly wheels for DJ :-) hope this helps
  • + 0
 do you really think that rotational weight actually helps you through dirt jumps. centrifical force just means the wheel itself has the momentum to keep itself spinning on the same plane as its set spinning at. it has nothing to do with helping you through dirt jumps. seriously.
it affects acceleration and braking and turning the handlebar. dirtjumping is about making trannys, nothing else
and considering dirtjumping is all about getting your bike tweaked in all sorts of ways. don't you think a light wheel would also be a benefit to that as well?
so stop telling people all sorts of weird non truths and i'll stop disputing everything you say
  • + 1
 holy shit you have to be the biggest idiot on pinkbike at the minute, firstly its centrifugal force not centrificial so stop making words up, there is all sorts of different factors affecting how a dirt jump works not "just makiing trannys" your just arguing for the sake of trying to force your BS on people just so you win an arguement but your wrong so zip it, and stop being such a bleedin hipocrit telling me to "stop telling people all sorts of weird un-truths" well thats exactly what you do in all of your comments, its certainly proof that you live up to your name BIGTARD yes you are.
  • + 0
 yeah you're right about centrifugal force, so i spelled it wrong. f*ck you.
the fact remains that despite being a decent speller. you're still not offering any facts to the real point of the argument here.
if you were a little more open to being told you were wrong, such as i am. maybe you'd learn a little here. heavy wheels do not help you dirt jump.
i think that's what we were talking about right?
and really, dirt jumping is all about making trannys, there's no sense in arguing that. what happens when you don't make the tranny?
what happens when you go to far on the tranny?
c'mon, don't be stupid anymore
  • + 1
 who do you think you are talking to me like that? you arent open to being told your wrong other than that you admit you cant spell, i wouldnt post something if it wasnt true, it makes perfect sense that a slightly heavier wheel such as an SAS rim will carry its momentom better once its started spinning which means youve already got some momentum when you pump then next tranny if you have something too light like a DT ex5.1 the bike is unstable and sketchy in the air when riding rhythm jumps, yes ok dirt jumping is about making trannys but as ive already said there are other factors that affect your jump and it isnt all down to the bike, everybody jumps different, wheel weight does affect anyones riding pro or beginner there's no denying that, wheels act exactly the same as a gyro (spinning top basically) if they are light they dont spin for long if they are heavier they take a bit more effort to get going but they spin much much longer, think of 9it as a tennis ball when you put top spin on it it shoots forward when it bounces as it carries its momentum this is the same principle for wheels, if you have a heavier wheel spinning when you land a jump and pump through the next tranny its brining its momentum with it and it will push you through the set easier, it does make sense when you think about it logically instead of just argueing for the sake of it from behind your keyboard just on the off chance you can "prove" me wrong with your comments that lack fact, "and really, dirt jumping is all about making trannys, there's no sense in arguing that" where is the evidence and fact to prove this??? enough said.
  • + 0
 the momentum your wheel has does in no way have anything to do with the bikes forward momentum.
  • + 1
 oh dear, that has to be the most ridiculous thing youve ever said, if the wheels on a bike arnt turning the bike goes nowhere duh! its not rocket science.
  • + 0
 f*ck your too stupid for this. the wheels momentum is a gyroscope. it keeps the bike stable, the opposite of your bike feeling nimble, would you rather be stable or nimble in the air. maybe you suck at dirt jumping, but i like nimble.
it doesn't have anything to do with clearing the jump or not, or your forward speed.
so if your wheels aren't turning your bike goes nowhere?
you are retarded right, we're not on the ground here, your in the air, if your wheels aren't turning it means the brakes got put on. what are they gonna stop against?
are you saying that if you put your brakes on in the air, you're gonna fall out of the sky?
try it, film it. i want to see you stop dead in the air because you put your brakes on.
you're still in high school school right? why don't you ask your physics teacher.
he's paid to tell you you're stupid, but in a nice way
  • + 1
 you know what i give up with you, your thick and wrong, im in school??? f*ck you i work full time in a bike shop and workshop, you keep insulting me and my riding when youve never met me and never seen me ride and thank f*ck i will never have to put up with you in person, your not even reading what ive typed so your just wasteing my time and your still wrong, dont bother replying your just making a fool out of yourself.
  • + 0
 no, no seriously. the point you are trying to make, the advice you've given someone. is absolutely retarded. your 17 and you work in a bike shop. that obviously makes you a f*cking genius right.
The only thing i can think is that you figure, that a heavy wheel is faster because when you land the amount the wheel has slowed down in the air needs to get re-accelerated up to the speed the bike is going?
is that it?
the difference a heavier wheel could make versus a lighter one in that scenario. is so minuscule it isn't even worth considering.
The point we're arguing here (and one any engineer would agree to ) is that the gyroscope effect of the wheel does not help you clear jumps.
and a good dirt jumper would rather have a nimble wheel, than a heavy one. if you can't see that you are blind stupid.
really, ask an engineer
  • + 1
 what the f*uck would an engineer know about dirt jumps your retarded really get help, so what im 17 doesnt make any difference to the fact your wrong, just shows that youve been looking on my profile for some wank material you perve, and you certainly proved me right your did make a fool out of yourself by replying. happy now? :-)
  • + 0
 an engineer would maybe be able to show your stupid ass how the gyroscope effect wouldn't have anything to do with clearing jumps. but you'd probably even tell him he's stupid.
  • + 1
 no they wouldnt coz it does accept it, and why would an engineer even be thinking bout dirt jumps? just a stupid thing to say as usual from you, does it make you feel big swearing at a 17 year old online? your nearly twice my age you think you some hard man or something? i dont i think you like to feel like a big man behind your keyboard because your not in real life so just give up telling me that im wrong, insulting me and swearing at me because it isnt getting you anywhere, maybe you should go out and ride your bike once in a while, thats if you even ride a bike
  • + 0
 if you even had a clue bud, you'd realize you should just shut up and learn a little. don't worry, you'll get it one day
  • + 1
 maybe you should read your own comment and take your own advice, i do have a clue thank you very much, yeah i will learn from pinkbike but not from you coz all you ever do is argue with people telling people how they are wrong and shitting on products, what makes you so amazing? you think you know everything about everything? dude if you were right i would have thanked you for correcting me and been away with it but you werent so i didnt i will "shut up and learn" when somebody INTELLIGENT talks to me, cheers mate :-) nice to see we get along so well
  • + 0
 no no, you're ignorant to a supremely obvious fact.
have you asked any other smart people if they agree with you or are you just runnin with this stupid idea you have in your head.
buddy i've been in this biking thing from so many angles you can't possibly imagine how off base you are
i shit on people for saying stupid things and i shit on product because they're crap.
i don't have time for shit products or stupid ideas. but i do have time to tell people about it.
if you knew me you wouldn't argue

did you ever consider that at 17 you don't know what the hell is going on?
  • + 1
 you are such a bloody hipocrit ask anymore that youve been arguing with they think your a jerk coz you are, the only supremely obvious fact is that you dont have a clue but you wish you did, and saying crap like "this biking thing" just sounds like you dont even know what it is your talking about and surprise surprise you dont, what do you mean if i knew you i wouldnt argue? you think you a big guy huh? i would argue coz your wrong i dont give a shit if your a 30 stone body builder your still wrong and according to many many people you arnt even as old as you make out so if you wanna bring age into it how about be truthful about yours at least then it just makes you look like the dumb kid you are instead of a thick shit adult that should know better but doesnt, you shit on people and products because you like to argue and because you have nothing better to do, i almost feel sorry for you having to put on this act and thinking you know stuff and yet you still cant fit in and your still wrong so quit the shit cheesey lines they help no one and get your facts straight, you picked the wrong person to argue with this time i wont give in because i know your wrong and i wont allow you to spill incorrect information to genuine bikers and pinkbike users they deserve the truth not your little on the spot concoctions that you think up to try and win an arguement and hope that people believe you it isnt going to happen so drop the act, give up with you fairytales and stop thinking your all high and mighty coz your really not. is this going to be the end of it now or are you going to come up with more pointless ramblings?
  • + 0
 you're just f*cking retarded!
your head is so full of shit you can't even consider logic
just quit being stupid. as f*cking hilarious as it is.
what you said is RETARDED.
your 17 years old, you think you know whats up. you don't. your stupid
and whats this i'm lying about my age? what the f*ck does that mean?
by the way a hypocrit is somebody who says one thing and does another. thats not me
ask somebody, anybody, about dirt jump wheels.provided they're not a retarded 17 year old like you.
if you were right don't you think all the good dirtjumpers would be using heavy wheels?
they don't though do they?
  • + 1
 you must really get a kick out of insulting people like the coz you have no other reason to do it, your the one who cant see logic through all the shit in your head which is obvious coz your still argueing your BS point, you really have a thing about my age dont you? its like you have some disturbed obsession or something, your a freak why dont you ask rffr what i mean about your age he meantioned your lie aswell, a hypocrit is someone who says something like "dont walk on the grass" and then walks on it themselves and thats the sorta shit youve been doing, example: you said sh*t like i was makin things up in my head, well thats exactly what you do i know the facts on this matter and you clearly dont but because you cant handle and understand the truth you get worried and have to come up with some shite answer that involves slagging everyone off and swearing at them calling them retarded, guilty conscience if you ask me.

and in answer to your question yes PRO dirty jumpers use slightly heavy wheels, SAM PILGRIM USES HALO SAS, if you need more evidence that your wrong than that you will end up in a mental home very soon, i cant see you doing very well in a job telling everyone they are wrong and swearing all the time but good luck you gonna really really need it . . .
  • + 0
 first off. i have an obsession with your age because i can tell that at 17 you're super duper intelligent.you're so smart you're beyond normal intelligence. like your in no mans land as far as intelligence goes. so smart university professors can't even tell you're smart because you register as fully retarded on their scales. forrest gump didn't even register as retarded as you do. i bet you're so smart that you'd even dispute the fact that gravity exists. thats about as stupid as saying your heavy wheels help you dirt jump.
do you think sam pilgrim really gives a shit about the wheels he runs?
he runs whatever friggin wheels his sponsors give him. you know why? because anyone who can actually dirt jump doesn't give a crap what he runs because the wheels are the last thing that matters for getting it done. its only retards like you who actually care about this crap. you and rffr.
and second off. what would lying about my age do for me? seriously?
you're stupid. but don't worry. as long as nobody kills you for being retarded( as your parents should have) then you may be smart enough to survive in the future. if you're lucky
  • + 1
 you are way out of line now you stupid fucking prick you the retard as soon as you understand that the world will be a better place so much for givinf up with the cheesey shit insults, yes i think pilgrim gives a shit what wheels he rides because he wouldnt use something that was going to hinder his performance and chance of winning large sums of money i think he cares alot about it i will ask him next time i see him as he rides at my local jumps every couple of months so youve stumped yourself there numb nuts, you say that the only people who give a crap are me and rffr but you clearly do otherwise you would have fucked off be now and accepted you a twat that no one wants to hear from your a friendless cock with nothing worthy to say, thats it no other explanaition but im interested to see what crazy bullshit you come up with next
  • + 0
 yeah you go ask sam. pro riders are totally known for their honesty as to why they choose the parts they ride, Its because they're free you stupid twat. ask him specifically if he likes a heavier wheel because it helps him dirt jump really, ask him i bet they're making him special custom rims just like sun doublewides because heavier wheels are SO beneficial for dirt jumping.
  • + 1
 ah so you still couldnt manage not swearing, and i think you overdoing it abit now coz you havnt read what i put properly and you still dont understand, i never said the heaviest wheel on the planet is going to be a benefit i said that i slightly stronger, heavier wheel will carry its weight better than some super light rim and it does you just cant see how coz you dont want it to be true, i only said that dirt jumpers can get away with using stronger rims i never said it vastly improves their performance but on the other hand they dont hinder the rider either if they did they wouldnt use them free or not. thnik about it properly before you bother replying OK?
  • + 0
 yeah, you said it was better to have a heavier rim for dirt jumping you're just as stupid now as you were when you first made the comment
  • + 1
 i said that dirt jumpers can get away with having burly rims coz they carry their weight better and they do, so its not stupid you and your lame comments are, im sure your dashboard is full of unfinished arguements with hundreds of people as you name seems to pop up everywhere and surprise surprise its not coz your being nice or telling the truth and its no different here, you dont have a clue about any of this so shut up!
  • + 0
 no you said its better. dirt jumping isn't about your wheels fuckwad i'm only arguing with you. because its been hilarious
  • + 1
 well it is gonna be better than a skinny xc rim, yeah i know dirt jumping isnt about your wheels dumb ass when did i say that?
your arguing with me becasue you like arguing and insulting people coz you a sad loner with nothing better to do. FACT!
  • + 2
 Sick wheels.
  • + 0
 +1. Gotta love the new tech going into stuff. I can't believe how far all this has come since the days of crappy skewers on everything. I wonder why BMX hasn't caught on to the 15 and 20mm scene yet.
  • + 11
 There's nothing wrong with BMX, no reason to change it dramatically.
  • + 0
 its over doing it a bit.. less bolts means less to go wrong.
  • + 1
 I like those hubs, very simple and very nice product.
  • + 0
 im impressed. might be an option for me for next season.
  • + 1
 over sized axels started in bmx! does no one remember the birth of the 14mm axel in the mid 90's?
shiat.. before that every one was replacin their 9mm's weekly if not more.
  • + 1
 I'm not talking about the 14mm street axles. I'm talking about bigger... hollow axles for bmx racing and dj. Of course you need a solid 14mm hunk of metal to mount pegs on, but not dirt jump on. It just adds an extreme amount of weight. Would be beneficial to run a 15mm hollow rear and a 20mm hollow front. Would make the frames have to be less stiff in the rear which would allow you to remove even more material from the seat and chain stays and yokes.
  • + 1
 that could be the most retarded thing i've heard on pink bike in a long time. don't seriously tell me that you think making everything un-compatible would be a good thing. bmx's don't have forks or suspension, so there's no perceptible flex, so there's no need to make anything stiffer.
  • + 0
 completely agree with bigtard i ride bmx, and 26" DJ and freeride so i see all through the spectrum, 20mm on a dj fork is to stiffen the forks to increase strength and reduce flex in the suspension, you dont need this on a bmx the forks are way to short and burly to flex and nearly all bmx's now have a 10mm axle on the front instead of 14 coz thats only needed on the rear, and a 15mm rear end would mean re-inventing every hub, freehub and cassette you wouldnt be able to have an 11 or 12 tooth gear as the freehub would be too fat it just isnt worth it, whats wrong with a 12mm rear end??
  • + 0
 we've got 8 tooth drivers now on a 14mm rear axle and you wouldnt want to go much smaller than that for the sake of chain wear and the excessive touque on each tooth.. plus it would mean that every bmx frame would have to have another drop-out option to comply with another pointless sizing standard... both mtb and bmx designs are getting to the point of perfection now so why mess around with it when we've got it so good now?? by the way, whats the point in the new 15mm front axles??? why not just make an existing 20mm axle thinner walled to save weight but to keep a high stiffness ratio????
  • + 1
 look dam sexy but with that price tag they suddenly dont look as nice
  • + 1
 did you bother to look at the UK rrp? There £499 a pair which is inline with deemax and Fulcrum red fire's, I've got a set on My 951 and had no issues with them at all, amazing pickup in comparison to Deemax (yellow)!
  • + 2
 Bigtart, speaking of retarded, bmx's don't have suspension? how long have you been into cycling?! theyve been producing 20" bmx suspension fork's for bloody years!!
  • - 1
 you are seriously retarded. i know they've been making suspension forks for bmx for ages. I've been in this game since it began.
does ANYONE use them?
NO. don't waste my time
  • + 1
 Who is talking about suspension. We were talking about axle size. And people obviously don't understand the "weight issue" its nothing about making a bmx fork stiffer, its about dropping even more weight. A 20mm axle can be made super super thin and out of aluminum. Lots lighter than a 3/8 or 14mm steel axle, or stainless axle. Aluminum bmx axles break... simple. Soooo its a weight game. Nothing about anything related to why mtb uses them, everything related to weight.

And big tard, your still going with the "lets be hardcore attitude". Can't you just talk like a normal person and not be such a f*cking douche bag? Seriously, tone it down a notch.
  • + 0
 btw nice changing your age... Out to prove something?
  • - 1
 Why do you care about the mans age, not his logic? Are you gay or something?
  • + 2
 Did you not understand what I said? He changed his age from something else. Nothing to do with his "logic". And how does gay come into that? It turns out, people that always call people gay or question people on gayness generally are gay them selves. Especially a name like thirsty pussy. Hmmm, closet? Think so.
  • + 1
 listen rffr, we're talking about suspension because its the ONLY reason bikes need bigger and stiffer axles.
you think its worth saving grams in the game of bmx (racing included) where weight doesn't matter, and making everything totally un compatible?
you're stupid, and i'm being a f*cking douchebag to you because of it.
someone has to speak up about the stupidity of it all. otherwise we'd all be a bunch of lame ass roadies. but then, you probably like wearing spandex (because you're gay) ha ha
and what about changing my age? are you gay, and on crack?
by the way does rffr, mean reefer. are you on drugs for real. drugs are not cool dude. no wonder you make no sense
  • + 1
 Do you not understand the point in bigger diameter means less material used. The same reason fox 40's remain so light. Massive super thin 40mm stanctions rather than thick 35mm stanctions.

Having a bigger diameter allows you to cut metal because it can handle more torsional stress. Again, do some research before you spew crap everywhere.

And didn't I tell you thirsty, people who call others gay are most likely gay themselves rather than the person they are calling gay being gay.

And no rffr doesn't mean reefer. Maybe its you that needs to stop smoking the reefer. O and btw, your language sucks for being "30". Didn't your mother ever wash your mouth out with soap?
  • + 1
 And btw, weight matters more in bmx racing than it does in any mountain bike racing. Period. Why on earth do you think people run 1 season only carbon forks? Why do you think guys will run aluminum handle bars? Why do you think guys will drill their rims out? Your talking to the wrong person about bmx racing here. I was into racing since the early 90's and still am. Weight has always been key in bmx racing. Maybe not street or dj, but racing... that's where gram crunching comes in.
  • + 0
 your not gonna save much weight in hub axles bud.
and we all know the fastest guy in the olympics could have done it on a steel, normal race bmx without carbon forks, the problem is when it gets to the olympics the guys running it all might as well be a bunch of tour de france nerds. give it up
your so deep in being caught saying something dumb you'd say anything to dig your way out.
i've got an idea.
why don't you start making 20mm axle bmx hubs and see how many frame and fork makers, and cassette and freewheel makers start doing it

and don't worry, i understand why a bigger dimeter is stronger. thats not the point here though is it. the point is practicality.
but you're also not quite correct on the facts there either. something with a bigger diameter isn't necessarily lighter. but its strength to weight ratio is better. so if its all about gram crunching (whatever) then you might actually be ending up with a heavier axle by making the diameter bigger
and you know how i can tell you totally know what your talking about?
the tomac with shivers and profile bmx cranks gives it away
  • + 0
 boy boys, we all come from different aspects of riding but theres no need to bitch, unless your a roadie in secret that aint come out the closet yet.... just to throw a spanner into the works, 20mm bmx hubs do exsist, g-sport marmosets etc use a 20mm axle, but they use a female axle design..... im sure i dont have to explain that to ya!
  • + 1
 yes they do. i've got one. but if the bolt going through the frame is still just 3/8"
then really, for all intents its still a 3/8 axle right.
and they don't make them for the rear because theres no room to make them a cassette hub.
but if that guy started making frames that fit then we'd be rocking. he should totally do that, just revolutionize the whole world
  • + 0
 true true. there is a cassette version though man, its called the ratchet and it drops down to a 9tooth on a 14mm female axle.... bring the revolution!
  • + 1
 really? thats cool i didn't know they started making that. for a while that was the hitch.
i'd be worried about the durability of the driver bearings though eh?
btw i was kidding about that guy revolutionizing the world. he's still out to lunch
  • + 0
 And whats up with the comment about my tomac? because its heavy? Because I don't crunch grams for a bike I beat the shit out of on a daily basis. I had light parts on it, and I got tired of breaking shit. I got tired of destroying aluminum cranks, and I got tired of the ride height of my 888's. So I built it heavy and haven't had to replace a part in well, almost 2 years now. Much different than changing crank arms out every season, or getting new bars and seats every crash.

Look at my bmx bike. Its built to race. Sure I have heavier wheels, but none the less, its as light as it can be for how big tall I am.

And yes, almost in every instance, you can make bigger diameter lighter. Go take a physics class... you will learn all about that there.
  • + 0
 and remember big tard, profile casettes use larger aluminum center axles. The only reason they have 3/8's is because it was standard. They would most likely happily use their own diamater if more frames accepted it, being it's LIGHT AS HELL ALUMINUM, not steel.
  • + 0
 worth changing the whole worlds standards? no.
bigger dia increases strength to weight ratio. more than actually making it lighter
the bigger the axles the weaker the freehub body bearings.
the comment about the tomac implies that for all your technical ramblings, you may not actually be on the cutting edge of it all, so why bother being so worried about it.
i'm just trying to balance the reality of it all here.
thats what its all about isn't it? reality
  • + 1
 When did I once say I was on the cutting edge? And why on earth do you bring my bike into this discussion when we aren't even talking about dh mtb. And when does someones bike show their technical ability? Like I said, I built my bike stout because I have other hobbies and got tired of replacing crap on a monthly to yearly basis.

In the end, you need to step it down a notch big. All I did was make a comment and you just bash on me for it. Why don't you just stop commenting back to me and just find something better to do...
  • + 0
 because you said something dumb and i caught you saying it.
c'mon, survey 10 of your impartial acquaintances who know whats up and see if (considering all factors mind you) they think what you said is a good idea.
thats why
  • + 1
 So just because you disagree that means you have to cuss like a child, call people *ag and gay, and bash on their bikes? You are the dumb f*ck here not me. Any worth while comment you might have even remotely had was completely over ruled by the way you put it, the filth included.

You have a bit of growing up to do. You also need to not jump at people for a simple comment or opinion. You sound like a flippen democrat.

now stop talking to me or I'll report you for all the crap you said.
  • + 1
 cmon chaps, put the handbags away, its wearing thin now... times moved on and this is a pointless arguement.... i mean, why would us bmxers use a daft new standard of 20mm and 12mm axles anyways???
  • + 0
 well said seventy8abuse, rffr is arguing a good point, bigtard needs to chill YET AGAIN seems you have a common theme running here bigtard why do you have to start fights with everyone? if you have nothing nice or helpful to say keep it to yourself
  • + 1
 its helpfull, you idiots just don't like being wrong and thats why you're pissed off. i'm so sorry i was mean to you i hope you haven't cried to your mother by the way, the point rffr is arguing is that i'm a meanie. he's completely given up on the fact that his idea was stupid, as seventy8abuse has kindly reinforced. thanks dude, glad somebody doesn't have their head up their ass.
  • + 0
 See, like I said, is it possible for you to respond without calling names? Is it possible for you to respond with no cussing? Or put downs. Honestly man, your just a little kid. Your not 30, and you have a whole lot of growing up to do. If I remember correctly you had your age at 15 or 16 a year or so back.

And no, my idea wasn't stupid, it was an effing question. My god mate, are you really that big of a turd bag to lash out at people on the net like that? Something says you have very bad self esteem. Buzz off.
  • + 1
 so youve been pyring on his age??? what are you saying about yourself man?? it was quite a daft remark though, just as this is a pointless (yet quite amusing) arguement... look, im not sticking up for either of you two, im going to live my life on my bmx, i suggest you two do the same and remind yourselfs why it is that you love two wheeled antics!!!!
  • + 0
 what does prying on his age mean?
seriously, i've never changed my age. wtf anyways?
i'm all over "living my life on two wheels" whatever, i'll live it on two skiis till its summer again.
so what if i have the time to waste on pinkbike?
just making sure the stupid people know they're stupid.
  • - 3
 "no one has come up with a pain free way of removing flat spots. If a company could develop a method of doing this, they could clean up."

Having more then 28 spokes would probably prevent most flat spots
  • - 1
 more spokes doesn't help prevent flat spots. More holes in the rim = less material for strength. That said if you beat any rim/spoke combo hard enough it'll flat spot. As for removing the flat spot, it ain't pretty but works to a degree--get a heavy hammer in your hand and a piece of wood on the rim, and get to work!!
  • + 2
 I find that pounding out flat spots makes the wheel even weaker. If the flat spot is so bad that it's necessary to do this, it's probably time for a new hoop.
  • + 1
 Easton wheel service center (in the US) will lace up new rims for reasonable prices considering that they rebuild your wheel with harmonic tuning. Not much more than the new hoop itself.
  • + 3
 onetime? more spokes does reduce flat spots. more holes in your rims is not what makes the difference.
  • + 2
 so BMX bikes having 48 spokes and not flat spotting as much as mtb rims has nothing to do with it ! gosh
  • + 2
 that'll have something to do with the 20" rim in comparison to a 26"!!
  • + 1
 true but if the same BMW rim had 28 spokes it would also flat spot more so both points are valid
  • + 1
 BMX* ^^ hahah can you tell I just woke up ?
  • + 1
 Hmm I don't agree. More spokes = more resistance to twisting forces, not flat spots. On a 20", a 48 is stronger than a 36 in respect of twisting, same as on a 26", a 36 is a bit more thrashproof than a 32.
Whatever you've got, assuming it's properly built and maintained, if you hit it harder than the rim material's structural limit, it'll flat. If increasing the number of spokes decreased the occurrence of flat spots we'd all be rolling about on really light rims laced up 48. And having less holes in a piece of material means fewer weak spots in that material.
  • + 2
 you're clearly looking into this a little deep. so i'll go deeper for you.
the wheel is actually supported by the spokes from the rim to the top of the wheel.
so the hub is actually hanging by the top of the rim, and the spokes should actually be considered cables, in engineering terms because they're under tension.
a flat spot that is more than just a sidewall dent, will be related to the whole rim being held under tension by the cables. as long as they're all tight. the more cables you've got holding the rim around the hub. WILL resist the flat spotting.
I mean this is pointless to debate.
its like saying when you go bungee jumping that you'd be just as safe on one cable as on two of the same gauge.
Crazy isn't it. you wouldn't say that would you, that'd be crazy, and people would think you were crazy for saying it.
so lets not argue about it further.
you're right about the more holes= less weak spots. but thats not as important a factor.
  • + 1
 thank you sir
  • - 2
 Nice wheels but it sounds like a nightmare to tune them. For the money I would rather spend a few extra bucks and get Dee Max.
  • + 1
 deemax's are even more of a nightmare to tune. once the wheels isn't brand new. the supposed to spin nicely nipple bushings don't spin nicely, they cause the spoke to wind up, the spoke stresses out and eventually breaks. if you want good wheels. build normal wheels, normal spokes, normal rims.
  • + 2
 I've put many wheel sets though the ringer. 40+ resort days a year plus shuttles for 2 seasons and my Deemax are still spinning just fine, only one dent in the rear rim and no broken spokes. I am not saying DeeMax are the best wheels out there. You have to maintain them and keep them clean. Truing a DeeMax is no biggie if you have a proper tool. Using a vice grip to keep my wheels true is not something I want to deal with. I guess if you bring them in to your LBS and pay the cash you don't have to worry about it.
  • + 0
 its quite clear you don't ride that hard if you've made deemax's last 2 years
you keep your wheels clean?
how do you do that, wrap them in plastic on rainy days?
  • + 1
 Your funny. I ride hard. I don't need to rant on here to prove to you. If you have any basic mechanical skills you can take a cassette and freehub body apart and clean them. In 2 years I have cleaned the internals 4 times. Not bad given the amount of riding I have done. From really wet to really dusty and dry I have had no big problems with them. I have to say one time when I neglected to clean them they packed up and the pawls would not engage. My fault for not keeping up on the maintenance. It took 15 minutes to clean and it was good to go. Since then I have been wrapping my wheels with saran wrap. It works like a charm.
  • + 1
 i don't know man, i've experienced these wheels first hand, and worked on tons of them.
they are a nightmare compared to a normal wheel
i'm not talking about the rim getting bent or dented. any wheel does that.
I'm talking about the stupid spokes and the nipples that just don't make true'ing and tensioning any fun.
plus every one i've seen regardless of maintenance, has cracking freehub problems, or freehub drag.
maybe silverstar just isn't that rough on your wheels?
  • + 1
 they look sweet !
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