Prototype Banshee Prime - 29'er For The Shore?
The guys at Banshee have been working on their latest bike, a 29'er that is burly enough to tackle the Shore and whatever else you can dish out! It features a proper slack head angle, a new linkage design, and titanium pivot axles. Inside you can scope out what the new bike will look like, check out the proposed geometry, and get the lowdown straight from Banshee.
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Stay glued to the Banshee website and wait patiently for more info!
Banshee's upcoming Prime looks like it could be the first bike with wagon wheels that really is Shore ready. You've seen the renderings, studied the geo, and have read the ideas behind the new bike, now weigh in below on whether you think it makes sense. Big wheels are said to roll over rough terrain quite well - will this make the Prime a Shore slayer?
Read on,
Banshee designer Keith Scott lets us in on the Prime... "There are a number of full suspension frames with this range of travel (130mm) out there, but I feel that most of them are too steep and often flexy to give you real confidence when riding aggressively or on steep technical terrain. The Prime is a strong, stiff and planted 29er designed to excel in all elements of true all mountain riding. 29ers don't need as much travel as 26ers for coping with square edge hits due to the larger wheels rolling over obstacles easier, so the 130mm travel of the Prime will generally 'feel' like more travel (150-160mm) if you are used to riding 26ers. As is standard for Banshee, we will be using 7005 alloy which will be T4 then T6 heat treated for better overall frame strength. The tubes will all be triple butted custom hydroformed for maximum strength to weight ratio. The seat and chain stays are both internally ribbed for extra strength and stiffness for minimal weight increase. The frame will only be compatible with direct mount front derailleurs (we will do the testing so you don't have to) . ISCG 05 tabs will allow use of chainguides or Hammerschmidt, and there will be cable guides for the latter system. there will also be cable guides for adjustable seatposts. As always, the proof will be in the pudding, and so this bike will be used, abused and tested globally, then refined and redesigned where necessary before public release, so that we can ensure that the final product is as good as it can possibly be."
The suspension linkage I've used on the Prime (which I may call the KS link...) uses the best elements of the VF4B link, but almost eliminates the rotation at the shock DU bushings for a more supple suspension action, and can be more finely tuned and offers more space for geometry manipulation for less compromise. The pivots will all run on fully sealed INA bearings on grade 5 6Al4V titanium pivot axles and bolts. The linkage for the Prime has been optimised to work well with smaller chain rings for the 29er user, and the frame structure has been stiffened slightly to ensure that there in minimal frame flex even with bigger wheels.
Tire clearance is an issue on many 29'ers, let alone big wheelers that will spend three quarters of the year being ridden in the mud and rain. The photo above shows the clearance that the Prime will be able to brag about while using a 29" x 2.5". Heavily shaped tubes and machined yokes allow for more clearance than a lot of 26" wheel bikes sport!
The Prime will have adjustable geometry that will let the rider make the bike suit his needs. Not only that, but dropouts will also let you use multiple axle sizes. Keep reading to get the details straight from Keith... "The Prime geometry can be easily adjusted by a single chain ring style bolt at the dropout (likely to be titanium). Changing from the steep to slack setting drops the BB by 12mm (0.5") and slackens the head angle out by 1 degree without affecting suspension characteristics. We will also offer the frame with 2 dropout types (135x10mm and 150x12mm) to suit all riders needs."
There are lots of 29'ers out there already, but the options available so far have a decidedly XC feel to them. There is a general consensus that slightly less travel is needed for the same task, which makes sense, but are you wondering why so many have overly steep head angles? It has been said (by people "in the know") that the 29" wheel requires a more tucked in geometry to mimic the feel of a standard wheeled bike. But what if you plan to ride some proper questionable terrain? Keith explains how his approached the geometry of the Prime... "The aggressive seat angle and relatively short chain stays make the Prime a bike that is playful, but with optimised weight distribution for control during technical climbs and the slack and low geometry offers stability and control on high speed descents."
Stay glued to the Banshee website and wait patiently for more info!
Banshee's upcoming Prime looks like it could be the first bike with wagon wheels that really is Shore ready. You've seen the renderings, studied the geo, and have read the ideas behind the new bike, now weigh in below on whether you think it makes sense. Big wheels are said to roll over rough terrain quite well - will this make the Prime a Shore slayer?
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Squamish, BC, Canada
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if anything DW pulled a specialized and patented parallel and named it as his own 
Granted, this isn't anything that can not be achieved with a properly set-up 26er DH rig, but I have to emphasize DOWNHILL rig... park/AM bikes will not perform to nearly the same level as a nice long-travel 29er or a properly set-up 26er DH bike on comparable terrain, just as a big DH bike doesn't jump or climb as well (or the same) as park/AM bikes, that is obvious.
In the air, a 29er handles quite nicely. Yes, you do feel the forces of a 29" wheel in the air, but as someone above said, with proper skills (which you would learn on a 29er), it's all very manageable, and the learning curve is worth the benefits (IMO).
That's all true though, IMO, only for big-mountain and park riding. I don't think the benefits will be quite as beneficial on the slow, technical trails of the shore. You are generally riding slow enough, and in an always shifting position, that as someone also said above, will make a 29er versus a 26er negligible if the rider has good bike handling skills.
This is just my opinion though, but an educated one having ridden a 29er in the park and big mountain stuff quite extensively....
Needless to say, I am quite excited about this bike, and think it will definitely be worth a look! The geometry looks spot on, and what I really wished my WFO was (which is why I ultimately sold it, because it just didn't work for me and what I wanted to do with it, even with the Dorado).
Regardless of who originally copied who (that argument happened what? 10 years ago???), the fact is that many (probably, at this point, a majority) companies have adapted the floating/virtual pivot design and modified it, enhanced it, refined it, dumped it...
I don't call it "copying" as much as I do diffusion of a technology/idea across an industry, which in the end, means benefits for us all!! People need to stop bitching about this "x copied y" thing, its over and done (like 7 years ago, when Meastro first came out if I remember correctly).
I supposed we should say Shimano copied SRAM for 10 speed stuff, who copied Campagnolo, who copied... well, their Italian, so who knows... (JOKING!!! kind of...) who really gives a crap? We all get to benefit... eventually.
I agree with your point. A few years ago manufacturers were, shall we say 'inspired' by the Horst Link, but these days VPP-like designs are all the rage. And in my opinion, quite rightly too!
130mm for a slack bike like that isn't enough...and the whole concept of 130mm feels like 140/150mm 26" bike is VERY subjective. Travel is travel. Since it's in the R & D stage, boost that thing to 150mm rear, a true 6" 29er. For the time being, a 140mm Reba or 44 will suffice, but you'll be kicking yourself when it goes to production at 130mm rear travel and a 36mm/150mm+ fork comes out It's just a matter of time before we see a Lyric or a 36 (29er version). I give it 16 months or less. To many companies are pressing RS and Fox on a bigger fork. It's holding innovation up in this realm.
FYI, I'm on a Tracer 29 with a 44 and soon to be Cane Creek Angleset to get me at 67.5 HA and 5.5" of travel.
Nothing about the frame, just this 29er for The Shore sounds a bit contradictory to me...
AFAIK, there is no hard-core 29er out there, just XC and trail bikes. This bike would be a God-send for those that love 29ers and also love aggro trails.
Tracer29
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What? With a comment like that, you are going to have to explain yourself? Why and how will they hurt the sport?
But overall, having ridden the Tallboy and the Niner WFO I agree with all the angles and lenghts you chose (but are you sure with the reach you measured? A Remedy in Large has the same reach (at least, that's what the homepage says: www.trekbikes.com/int/en/bikes/mountain_full_suspension/remedy/remedy8) , but at 612mm TopTube and 73° seat angle - how can that be possible?)
What remains is the question if there will be a decent fork available next year (what fork lenght is the geometry data based on, btw?). A reba on steroids just isn't up to the task. I hope Sea Otter will bring us some Lyriks or 36s in for 29".
29ers are great!!