FIRST RIDE
380 C2R2 Titanium Fork
WORDS Mike Levy
PHOTOS Amy Mcdermid
Marzocchi's brand new 380 C2R2 Titanium may look like a 888 at first glance, but the 200mm travel fork is actually an entirely new beast from the ground up. There is no doubting the 888's legacy and performance in the past, with the Italian company's most successful DH fork winning over a lot of riders with both its set-and-forget reliability and ultra-sensitive early stroke, but it also has to be said that riders' expectations have risen over the last few years. No longer can a fork be pronounced a winner simply because it's near stiction-less and doesn't ask much of its owner beyond a bit of yearly love. With racers looking for more and more sophisticated damping, always less weight, and long-term dependability to boot, it was time for Marzocchi to head back to the drawing board to design a new fork that ticks all the boxes while also retaining that slippery, active suspension feel that they have become known for. The result is the 380 C2R2 Titanium, and the only thing it has in common with the previous 888 is it being right-side-up. A brand new 'Dynamic Bleed Cartridge' is hidden inside, while much lighter crowns, a fresh lower leg design that loses the 'M' arch yet gains rigidity, and added external damper adjustments in the form of both separate low and high-speed compression and rebound dials are some external features. It is also compatible with both 26'' and 650B wheel sizes.
380 C2R2 Titanium Details
• Intended use: DH racing
• Travel: 200mm
• Titanium coil spring
• 38mm nickel treated stanchions
• Tapered or straight steerer
• New 'Dynamic Bleed Cartridge'
• Adjustments: separate low and high-speed compression, low and high-speed rebound
• Titanium clamp bolts stock
• Compatible with 650B wheels
• Production fork weight: 6.28lb
• Availability: September, 2013
• MSRP: TBA
Dynamic Bleed CartridgeMarzocchi's forks have utilized an open bath approach to damper design for many, many years, with a cartridge that fed on the same oil that acted as lubrication within the fork. This design made for exceptionally smooth performance due to there being enough oil to slosh about and lube the fork's bushings, although it couldn't meet how a closed or semi-closed damper performs when talking consistency because of that very same sloshing effect. Marzocchi says that the 380's Dynamic Bleed Cartridge is hybrid of those three damper designs, with it requiring some internal trickery to make that happen. The DBC cartridge uses a one-way seal that lets damping oil enter as required, but the clever bit is a spring-loaded piston that acts as a compensator (
similar to how an internal floating piston functions in a shock's piggyback) that keeps the cartridge full of oil without it hydraulically locking: the piston moves up to make room as the damper cartridge fills with oil, and also down in its travel to take up the lost displacement as oil rushes out. While more complicated than Marzocchi's previous open bath damper, the DBC system employs technology that the Italian company is familiar with from using it within their motocross forks, meaning that they should be able to create a reliable design that performs well in the long run.
The DBC damper may be new to Marzocchi's lineup, but they are not straying away from their open approach to giving consumers the ability to remove and tune vital damper components. Looking for a change that can't be done via the external low and high-speed compression dials? The entire compression assembly can be removed from the top of the fork to allow the garage tuners and pro mechanics to make alterations to the mid-speed compression circuit, and shim stack assemblies that will make the job easier will be available from Marzocchi for aftermarket purchase.
On The TrailWe rolled over to the Marzocchi race support truck in the morning to have the 380 fork and Moto shock installed on our GT Fury downhill bike, a rig that we'll be using as a testing platform to put time on a number of downhill components in the future. Having given Pietro Palladino, the Italian suspension technician who is responsible for tuning the forks and shocks for Marzocchi's World Cup racers, our stats before arriving, he had done much of the necessary tuning before we arrived. All that was left to do was to double check our sag numbers and go over the fork's four separate damper adjustments: low-speed and high-speed compression, as well as low-speed and high-speed rebound.
The first push reveals a fork that feels very much like the Marzocchi of old, with an incredibly active feel at the top of the stroke that had us wondering if the fork was underdamped, a trait that older 888 models were guilty of. It honestly felt very much like we would be blowing through a lot of the travel the second the trail pointed down, and it had us thinking that Marzocchi might have sacrificed performance at speed for the parking lot plushness that comes with not enough low-speed compression. We really shouldn't jump to conclusions, though, because we turned out to be very, very wrong. The 380 proved to have two personalities: one that was able to take out the smallest of trail chatter - picture micro sized rocks and roots, and another side that kept enough travel in reserve to take the force out of huge hits and spikes. Sometimes it's good to be mistaken, isn't it?
The supple feel that Marzocchi is famous for is there, and calling the 380 active really doesn't begin to describe how yielding its early travel actually is. This translated to an impressive amount of front-end grip in the dry, silty conditions that the Whistler Bike Park is known for during the heat of the summer, with the front tire able to stay in contact with the ground instead of pushing over it due to losing its hold. Confidence in the front of your bike is key to carrying good speed, and we found ourselves putting more and more faith in the front of the GT thanks to the 380's performance. The other advantage to that plushness, one that we confess to not noting until halfway through the first day on the fork, is how much fresher our hands felt after hours of laps on fast trails littered with braking bumps and holes. High frequency vibrations are muted before they reach the handlebar, and it was almost as if we simply didn't need to use a death grip on the bar when tracking over the roughest sections.
While supreme plushness is a nice trait to boast about, any fast rider who knows a thing or two about bike setup will tell you that sacrificing all around suspension performance for a supple feel is a recipe for disaster. Thankfully Marzocchi didn't go this route, with the 380 being far from a one trick pony. Deep chunder - picture foot high holes, roots, and rocks - all taken in with very little fuss. There is no spiking, and it took more than a few runs to believe that the 380 could be both as supple as it is without eating up all of its travel at the first sight of trouble. One heavy hit in particular, smack dab in the middle of the fast line on the notoriously rough Canadian Open track, has always been a bit of a ''close your eyes and hope for the best'' kind of moment, with whatever bike we've pointed down it groaning in protest each and every time we roll the dice. That very same punch in the gut sort of impact didn't carry quite as much force behind it with the 380 on the front of the Fury, and we actually had to roll the dice again by hiking and re-riding the section to confirm our thoughts. Once again, not only did we survive but we also came out the other side with more control - no hard bottom, and only a controlled feel on the run-out after the impact.
Pinkbike's Take: | The two days that we've put on the 380 C2R2 Titanium fork isn't enough time to consider this as a true test - we've need a few months on it in order to comment on any reliability issues that may or may not come to light - but it was more than enough time for us to announce Marzocchi's return to the upper echelon of suspension makers. The Italian brand has yet again created a fork who's suppleness almost beggars belief but has also added an element of performance that the 888 always seemed to be missing: damping control when pushing hard on a steep track. Is the 380 the entire package, then? It appears as if it certainly might be, with the key being its longterm reliability. We'll soon have a 380 on the front of the Fury for a more lengthy test, one that will allow us to comment on that last remaining question mark, so stay tuned for the final word on Marzocchi's re-entry into the downhill marketplace. - Mike Levy |
www.marzocchi.com
I wish they'd do like some auto reviewers and have "best of category" awards and the such, it would be much more useful that the usual "everything is awesome all the time! Downplay all the flaws!".
Unlike some other places, I'm not going to pawn off the day and a half of riding time as a real review. Once we have a long-term 380 to test you'll be able to read all about it, and I'll make sure to make some of those direct comparisons that you're asking for =)
My comment was a broad statement, it's not just forks, it's your reviews on numerous reviews, tyres, bikes, wheels, etc. I find when reading them that I know a lot about the product but nothing about how it compares to other products. I get that the products you review can be good, but I refuse to believe that they are all the same, I feel that PB writers refrain from comparing just to please your sponsors. As Ryan said, it would be brilliant if you did product vs. product, something which isn't done. And it's something that really should be done IMO. Thanks for replying
in all honesty, the above is more of a positive prop to pinkbike and all the work that their staff does. we know THEY know which fork they like best and works best. i just wish that they would flat out say it sometimes. i mean...how many 650b trail bike reviews have their been in the past month. if i was in the market, i would have NO IDEA which one to buy. and maybe my area does not have demo days for all these frames. one or two of them has to be junk in comparison...right? how am i to know?
*disclaimer - i am an adult and i also have a graduate degree
@ManuelMTB - I am personally not that surprised that Marzocchi's new, high-end and not inexpensive downhill fork appears to perform very well... They knew where they had to improve and did just that. If the fork did something wrong during our short time on it, you would have read about. The question about reliability remains, of course, and we'll comment on that when we can.
A good review site that gets most of their money from sponsors, has a very large audience that they can influence but has a very subjective in depth reviews that often clearly point out the flaws of a product and finish all reviews with an easily searchable scoring system is DPReview. Its possible for a site that relies on sponsor money to rate certain products lowly, without hurting sponsor money. This is done by maintaining a high level of integrity in their reviews which will bring in the loyal public that the sponsors need to sell their wares to anyway. I have been on this site for a short time but even then if was quickly apparent that the reviews here shouldn't hold too much weight in my buying decision since they are so banal.
@mikelevy Just a suggestion but perhaps Pinkbike needs to structure their reviews (like most review sites) into Previews (where no real solid review is given, like the above article) Short term Test (Where you get a feel of how the product will behave) and Long Term Test (with in depth reviews and detailed descriptions). Until rated reviews (Preview/Short Term/Long Term) are given all the Pinkbike articles seem like exercises in Marketing.
the title of the article clearly says 'first ride' which means it is a 'preview', not an actual 'review'. The entire premise of your complaint is based upon your own delusion.
The article also isn't "pointless" at all, the damping is explained more and the feel of the fork is described.
If it feels anything like a 888, then it probably doesn't have the firmer race feel of a 40, but as the article explains you can adjust it to your personal preference.
If you are going to complain about the reviews, then complain on an article that is an actual review, not a preview where the writer clearly states it isn't a long term review. I don't care how many worthless props you got from the clones on here who want pinkbike to compare every
product with every other product out there. Have you ever heard of deductive reasoning?
The fact that the fork has been ridden on and MikeLevy has been able to give some information of how the fork feels and all the specifications of the fork, in my eyes, make this a small review. Now sladevalleydh was really just stating that he wants an article (in the future) with a group of the same product, in this case forks, to be compared to one an other. Which myself and 279 others agree with.
Secondly, as you can so obviously tell this fork is already plusher than a 40, what about a Boxxer? Or maybe even the Emerald? Considering you seem to be able to tell a forks plushness from not riding it.
I was starting to feel a little guilty about blasting FOX forks on PB so much for being unreliable, but now not so much.
To me this looks like the fork to have. The air forks(40 and boxxer) aren't as plush and require more maintenance, the DVO and X fusion sound interesting but I bet the Marzocchi is the most reliable with the most plush feel.
The marzo will (hopeully) be typical old skool marzo, built like a brick shithouse, require sod all maintenance and run sweet as a nut after a good few years abuse. If it doesnt theyre shafted considering how bad some of the forks were from 2006/7-08/9. Previous to that marzo reliability was bullet proof IMO. used to love the old Z1 FR series and the 66.
I think with both these guys its what appears in the middle of their dual crown range as thats what most people are willing to stump up for. If they can put the same or very similar damping into a slightly heavier chasis and not cost more than £900 theyre in the right price range. Although boxxers get a lot of flack the r2c2 you can pick up for £600 if your lucky and thats a lot of fork for that kinda money compared to 40R for example
This fork, dvo new dh and am single, pike, new boxxer w/charger damper soon...all the new bikes..geesh
Everything feels brilliant.... we get that.
Everything's performance is amazing.... we get that.
But I am an R&D development engineer of nearly 20 years.... I have to provide quantified evidence to my sponsors, world be ace if I could just make up sht and it was true, it would make engineering easy.
A back to back test, 2 or 3 riders with different riding styles and base line speeds, swapping fork only on their bike, times and perception of mistakes made (going faster can sometimes add to mistakes) would give the pink bike audience something that starts to have some foundations.
You can add feel in, but often a feel can mean you are going slower.
If you guys had a test track for different bikes, parts etc. Then performance related to speed as one output requirement could be evaluated.
What the pros ride can often mean nothing as they have tunes or internals not available to the public.
It sounds stupid, but my bike HAS to be Dialed & sick looking...To me anyway.
Shred on people whatever you ride...Its the ride that counts.
my best rides have been on my first bikes, Raleigh Burner!!! Whooo UK!!!!
But it would stand to reason that this article might be more comprehensive, not only by in cluding more than a mere mention of the shock, but also how it comes on the same trail with a different brand of suspension. But I appreciate a first ride first impression, and thus am looking forward to a more comprehensive review based on a longer term testing, inclusion of the experience with the shock, experience with DIY modification of the shim stack and the resultant changes in fork/shock behaviour, and all of that compared currently available competitor forks and shocks. Thanks PB!
I guess we can add the great Marzocchi to the list of evil companies hell-bent on dragging 26 inch wheels from under us etc etc....
i think you are right
but it is not that easy since every rider prefers somthing different.
This whole negative crap about Marzocchi customer service or ANY other company for that matter, makes me wonder about a persons' approach when contacting a particular manufacturer. You'll get much further with honey than with vinegar. Oh yeah, brush up on some technical jargon and parts names before you call and sound like an idiot that doesn't even know how to operate said product. Otherwise leave it to your LBS and leave your Playskool tools in the closet.
My 05 888rc is still blowing my mind and leaving me lots of spare time for beer and not wrenching on my fork every 2 months. A 55 and a Z-1 as well.
• Production fork weight: 6.28lb
• Availability: September, 2013
• MSRP: TBA